NS Military Realism Mk. 7: NO

[Roski]

Hay.

How quickly, realistically, could a member of a military, who has just been hit by a massive surprise attacks filled with chemicals, put on chemical gear, assuming that they recognize immediately after the detonation that the weapon is infact a chemical weapon?

Takes about 100 seconds to suit up in MOPP-4 gear.

Which is why IIRC in Gulf War one US Soldiers walked around in a low-preparation MOPP gear (MOPP level 1), so they could cut time down on actually getting into it, since you'd have about 45 seconds from impact to live.

About 5-10 seconds if the person you launched them against has any logical, and common seance

This was a good laugh.

So basically, if you are completely unprepared for said chemical attack, other than just having the gear present, and not wearing it, you have no chance of survival?

[Padnak]

No exactly, most chemical agents take a little while to disperse and start killing people

[Roski]

No exactly, most chemical agents take a little while to disperse and start killing people

But he said it took 45 seconds to live, and it takes 100 to put on the suit

[Zerinfriom]

Hay.

How quickly, realistically, could a member of a military, who has just been hit by a massive surprise attacks filled with chemicals, put on chemical gear, assuming that they recognize immediately after the detonation that the weapon is infact a chemical weapon?

Takes about 100 seconds to suit up in MOPP-4 gear.

Which is why IIRC in Gulf War one US Soldiers walked around in a low-preparation MOPP gear (MOPP level 1), so they could cut time down on actually getting into it, since you'd have about 45 seconds from impact to live.

About 5-10 seconds if the person you launched them against has any logical, and common seance

This was a good laugh.

Well I was talking about my gear.

So your laugh is justifiable.

[Roski]

Takes about 100 seconds to suit up in MOPP-4 gear.

Which is why IIRC in Gulf War one US Soldiers walked around in a low-preparation MOPP gear (MOPP level 1), so they could cut time down on actually getting into it, since you'd have about 45 seconds from impact to live.



This was a good laugh.

Well I was talking about my gear.

So your laugh is justifiable.

So unrealisitically simple to put on gear?

[Aelarus]

It's possible, but only with surprise and force concentration.

I'm not saying it isn't or hasn't been done before countless times throughout history, but since there's apparently been a troop amassment, it's a major gamble to try and do it with limited resources.

---

Which is why IIRC in Gulf War one US Soldiers walked around in a low-preparation MOPP gear (MOPP level 1), so they could cut time down on actually getting into it, since you'd have about 45 seconds from impact to live.

You should read some accounts of the Gulf War, there's tons of stuff about them. They were running in the desert with green forest colored MOPP suits, and apparently some Patriot batteries liked pulling pranks in the middle of the night sometimes.

Plus, taking a piss is apparently a nightmare (staggering to the john at 0400, once you get there you have to strip, that is if you haven't already tripped on the way there, and anyway, by then it's too late ).

[Padnak]

No exactly, most chemical agents take a little while to disperse and start killing people

But he said it took 45 seconds to live, and it takes 100 to put on the suit

And it takes close to a minuet, just eyeballing it, for gas based chemical weapons to fully disperse

[Vespalia]

I have a question.
1. For an MT nation the population of China which is a prosperous democracy the size of North America, what constitutes a competent military? Especially if your nation is a "sleeping giant" and mostly tries to ignore international affairs.

[Roski]

But he said it took 45 seconds to live, and it takes 100 to put on the suit

And it takes close to a minuet, just eyeballing it, for gas based chemical weapons to fully disperse

But do they need to fully disperse when said target is going to be hit from anywhere fromn 50-350 shells?

[Roski]

I have a question.
1. For an MT nation the population of China which is a prosperous democracy the size of North America, what constitutes a competent military? Especially if your nation is a "sleeping giant" and mostly tries to ignore international affairs.

Peacetime: ~1 mil active, ~3 mil reserve
Wartime: ~4-5 Mil active, ~1-1.5 mil reserve

[Mitheldalond]

Its begging for a good boghammering is what its begging for

Speaking of boghammers, would a Rudderow-class destroyer escort make an effective anti-boghammer ship? It seems to me that a pair of 5" guns, four 40mm guns, and ten 20mm guns would do a pretty good job of shredding swarms of speed boats.

I'm working on a concept for an MT military that uses outdated/obsolete equipment because [insert reasons here], and one of my ideas was to use the Rudderows as basically a littoral combat ship. For the purposes of this scenario, assume either that the ships have been kept in serviceable condition, or that they are newly built to the same design as the originals. (Essentially, ignore the fact that the ships are ancient, and would probably be having structural integrity problems under normal circumstances.)

Bottom-of-paged

[Padnak]

And it takes close to a minuet, just eyeballing it, for gas based chemical weapons to fully disperse

But do they need to fully disperse when said target is going to be hit from anywhere fromn 50-350 shells?

Yes

It varies by agent, but gas doesn't spread all the quickly so it would take a ludicrously impossible hailstorm of gas filled cluster munitions to achieve the kind of killing field you're going for

[Roski]

But do they need to fully disperse when said target is going to be hit from anywhere fromn 50-350 shells?

Yes

It varies by agent, but gas doesn't spread all the quickly so it would take a ludicrously impossible hailstorm of gas filled cluster munitions to achieve the kind of killing field you're going for

I want to incapacitate the enemy long enough for the next 3-4 waves of various strikes to hit, with the final wave being MBTs, Infantry, and other vehicles.

[Lydenburg]

I have a question.
1. For an MT nation the population of China which is a prosperous democracy the size of North America, what constitutes a competent military? Especially if your nation is a "sleeping giant" and mostly tries to ignore international affairs.

Doctrine, operational record, technical training, etc.

Many factors come in play when we're discussing professional competence.

[Roski]

I have a question.
1. For an MT nation the population of China which is a prosperous democracy the size of North America, what constitutes a competent military? Especially if your nation is a "sleeping giant" and mostly tries to ignore international affairs.

Peacetime: ~1 mil active, ~3 mil reserve
Wartime: ~4-5 Mil active, ~1-1.5 mil reserve

This is all assuming you are on defencive military standpoint.

[Aelarus]

I want to incapacitate the enemy long enough for the next 3-4 waves of various strikes to hit, with the final wave being MBTs, Infantry, and other vehicles.

Well, once the strikes start it's likely he'd button down every NBC protected thing around.

Why not just destroy his logistics? It'd probably be the best use of an early bombardment (though getting eyes on said logistics would be an issue TBF).

[Lydenburg]

Well I was talking about my gear.

So your laugh is justifiable.

So unrealisitically simple to put on gear?

Gas masks instead of full body NBC suits? It'd be useless against agents which kill through skin exposure, but like the Iranians insisted - better than nothing.

[Puzikas]

Well I was talking about my gear.

So your laugh is justifiable.

Ill admit im older, but it takes more than 10 seconds for me to put on pants and underwear in the morning. Its been awhile since I donned a CBRN suit, but last I recall, it was quite the process to do so. So you've oversimplified the process or are just handwaving at this point.

u should read some accounts of the Gulf War, there's tons of stuff about them. They were running in the desert with green forest colored MOPP suits, and apparently some Patriot batteries liked pulling pranks in the middle of the night sometimes.

Plus, taking a piss is apparently a nightmare (staggering to the john at 0400, once you get there you have to strip, that is if you haven't already tripped on the way there, and anyway, by then it's too late ).

This I did know, I simply coudnt recall if they were donning the MOPP gear beforehand or not.

Gulf War One was like Slapstick: The War. Except, you know, up to 40,000 people died.

No exactly, most chemical agents take a little while to disperse and start killing people

Most chemical weapons incapacitate the user fairly quickly actually. Incapacitate, not kill. Convolutions, coughing fits, vomiting, spasms.
While it takes some time to disperse, individuals within relative proximity of the blast, depending on the delivery system, can expect exposure within anywhere from 20-80 seconds.

VX needs only ~40mg mg·min/m^3 inhalation, or 10 mg skin contact to be lethal.


Also, generally you put your mask on first for CBRN gear. This increases your chance of living, make no mistake, but its entirely possible if you aren't fast enough you'll die from the effects.

[Vespalia]

Peacetime: ~1 mil active, ~3 mil reserve
Wartime: ~4-5 Mil active, ~1-1.5 mil reserve

This is all assuming you are on defencive military standpoint.

Yeah, we are a defensively oriented force. I'll take this into account, given we're normally at peace, and aim for a 1.15 m active force with 3.5 million reserves.

I have a question.
1. For an MT nation the population of China which is a prosperous democracy the size of North America, what constitutes a competent military? Especially if your nation is a "sleeping giant" and mostly tries to ignore international affairs.

Doctrine, operational record, technical training, etc.

Many factors come in play when we're discussing professional competence.

Hmm...I will have to expand on that later. For now, I'm going to say this:
-Our doctrine is defense-oriented, although when a threat makes itself known within Vespalian sovereign territory, or near it, we will strike back if possible to disable the enemy. For instance, if an enemy force were gathering in the continent nearest to us (about 400 miles away at closest point, as we have no land borders with any other nation), and they were about to cross into international waters, we would wait until they had entered international waters to begin our work. I'm thinking cyber attacks on their defenses, communications, and early warning systems, along with missile strikes or a close fleet operation. If our own systems are taken down beforehand, we will wait for them to arrive while repairing our comms, observation and defenses. In the meantime, I'm not sure if it's wise to move available forces to the area if they're blinded, as they may be waylaid on the way in.
Then we'll trap them in a civilian-evacuated area and besiege them.
-Our military hasn't fought in too many conflicts. There was an invasion 80 years ago, though, and we unofficially controlled part of another continent for 20 years afterward; there were a lot of uprisings there.
-Our soldiers are trained with the ability to use the standard and marksman's rifle (rudimentarily for the latter, they can hit a target of human size at 100 m 57% of the time with either one, or whatever's the realistic average) small arm and handheld explosives and comms and technical gear. They can drive military transport vehicles, and know a little bit of the functioning of an underslung attachment, like a shotgun or grenade launcher, but anything more specialized than this usually has units trained mainly for their usage.

[Padnak]

Interesting, despite my unhealthy love for them I don't know that much about chemical weapons

[San-Silvacian]

less than 9 seconds to put on, seal, and clear a gas mask.

9 seconds is pretty slow at that.

[Puzikas]

less than 9 seconds to put on, seal, and clear a gas mask.

9 seconds is pretty slow at that.

GP-5s are about that too.

What series mask is that? The M40?

[San-Silvacian]

less than 9 seconds to put on, seal, and clear a gas mask.

9 seconds is pretty slow at that.

GP-5s are about that too.

What series mask is that? The M40?

M50

so fancy high speed gas mask of many dollars

[Rich and Corporations]

I have a question.
1. For an MT nation the population of China which is a prosperous democracy the size of North America, what constitutes a competent military? Especially if your nation is a "sleeping giant" and mostly tries to ignore international affairs.

Peacetime: ~1 mil active, ~3 mil reserve
Wartime: ~4-5 Mil active, ~1-1.5 mil reserve

I'd say wartime is closer to ten million active.

[Allanea]

Yes

It varies by agent, but gas doesn't spread all the quickly so it would take a ludicrously impossible hailstorm of gas filled cluster munitions to achieve the kind of killing field you're going for

I want to incapacitate the enemy long enough for the next 3-4 waves of various strikes to hit, with the final wave being MBTs, Infantry, and other vehicles.

Fire HE-F?