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Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Tranche 7

A place to put national factbooks, embassy exchanges, and other information regarding the nations of the world. [In character]

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Orussia
Minister
 
Posts: 2893
Founded: Jan 01, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Orussia » Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:58 pm

Gallia- wrote:Under the turret basket, no blowoff panels or anything that requires intrusion into the fighting compartment. That is the safest option without having bustle storage.

Under the turret basket sounds awfully hard to access.

EDIT: Vaguely relevant top of page image. Spoilers because .gif
Image
Last edited by Orussia on Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RIP Rhoderberg
14/9/2013 - 15/8/2015
May your spirit live on in FALhalla.
The Anglo-Saxon Empire wrote:His penetrator is MASSIVE!
Talon independent nation wrote:And so missiles did come unto man, and man did see it was good, and did smite down the land battleships of his foe with totally awesome explosions.

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Gallia-
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25421
Founded: Oct 09, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gallia- » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:04 pm

Orussia wrote:
Gallia- wrote:Under the turret basket, no blowoff panels or anything that requires intrusion into the fighting compartment. That is the safest option without having bustle storage.

Under the turret basket sounds awfully hard to access.


It works on Challenger so not really.

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Hurtful Thoughts
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7217
Founded: Sep 09, 2005
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Hurtful Thoughts » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:04 pm

Orussia wrote:
Gallia- wrote:Under the turret basket, no blowoff panels or anything that requires intrusion into the fighting compartment. That is the safest option without having bustle storage.

Under the turret basket sounds awfully hard to access.

Not really, the ISU-152, and similar tanks had a loading-port between the 2nd and 3rd roadwheel for direct-loading from ground-level.

Being an autoloader, it could be set to 'reloading' and a guy from each side could load the carousels from ground-level as the autoloader cycles through the open slots.

I figure one side would be loading propellants while the other loads shells.
Last edited by Hurtful Thoughts on Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Factbook and general referance thread.
HOI <- Storefront (WiP)
Due to population-cuts, military-size currently being revised

The People's Republic of Hurtful Thoughts is a gargantuan, environmentally stunning nation, ruled by Leader with an even hand, and renowned for its compulsory military service, multi-spousal wedding ceremonies, and smutty television.
Mokostana wrote:See, Hurty cared not if the mission succeeded or not, as long as it was spectacular trainwreck. Sometimes that was the host Nation firing a SCUD into a hospital to destroy a foreign infection and accidentally sparking a rebellion... or accidentally starting the Mokan Drug War

Blackhelm Confederacy wrote:If there was only a "like" button for NS posts....

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Purpelia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34249
Founded: Oct 19, 2010
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Postby Purpelia » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:05 pm

Orussia wrote:
Gallia- wrote:Under the turret basket, no blowoff panels or anything that requires intrusion into the fighting compartment. That is the safest option without having bustle storage.

Under the turret basket sounds awfully hard to access.

EDIT: Vaguely relevant top of page image. Spoilers because .gif
Image

No way! No way you are telling me that the whole ramrod packs up in so tight a space! If that be so than... how?
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Hurtful Thoughts
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Founded: Sep 09, 2005
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Hurtful Thoughts » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:07 pm

Purpelia wrote:
Orussia wrote:Under the turret basket sounds awfully hard to access.

EDIT: Vaguely relevant top of page image. Spoilers because .gif
Image

No way! No way you are telling me that the whole ramrod packs up in so tight a space! If that be so than... how?

It's a chain.
Factbook and general referance thread.
HOI <- Storefront (WiP)
Due to population-cuts, military-size currently being revised

The People's Republic of Hurtful Thoughts is a gargantuan, environmentally stunning nation, ruled by Leader with an even hand, and renowned for its compulsory military service, multi-spousal wedding ceremonies, and smutty television.
Mokostana wrote:See, Hurty cared not if the mission succeeded or not, as long as it was spectacular trainwreck. Sometimes that was the host Nation firing a SCUD into a hospital to destroy a foreign infection and accidentally sparking a rebellion... or accidentally starting the Mokan Drug War

Blackhelm Confederacy wrote:If there was only a "like" button for NS posts....

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Purpelia
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Founded: Oct 19, 2010
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Postby Purpelia » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:08 pm

Hurtful Thoughts wrote:
Purpelia wrote:No way! No way you are telling me that the whole ramrod packs up in so tight a space! If that be so than... how?

It's a chain.

Explain.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Orussia
Minister
 
Posts: 2893
Founded: Jan 01, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Orussia » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:08 pm

Purpelia wrote:
Orussia wrote:Under the turret basket sounds awfully hard to access.

EDIT: Vaguely relevant top of page image. Spoilers because .gif
Image

No way! No way you are telling me that the whole ramrod packs up in so tight a space! If that be so than... how?

It telescopes...?
RIP Rhoderberg
14/9/2013 - 15/8/2015
May your spirit live on in FALhalla.
The Anglo-Saxon Empire wrote:His penetrator is MASSIVE!
Talon independent nation wrote:And so missiles did come unto man, and man did see it was good, and did smite down the land battleships of his foe with totally awesome explosions.

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Purpelia
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Founded: Oct 19, 2010
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Postby Purpelia » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:10 pm

Orussia wrote:
Purpelia wrote:No way! No way you are telling me that the whole ramrod packs up in so tight a space! If that be so than... how?

It telescopes...?

I do not think you can get a telescoping system that folds up that much. I mean I think. Hydraulics were newer my field of choice.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Lydenburg
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Posts: 4592
Founded: May 20, 2011
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Postby Lydenburg » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:15 pm

While we're on the topic of turret storage, how plausible is with simply making do with one ammo rack behind the loader?

Ek bly in Australie nou, maar Afrika sal altyd in my hart wees. Maak nie saak wat gebeur nie, ek is trots om te kan sê ek is 'n kind van hierdie ingewikkelde soms wrede kontinent. Mis jou altyd my Suid-Afrika, hier met n seer hart al die pad van Melbourne af!



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Novorden
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Posts: 1390
Founded: Dec 03, 2013
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Postby Novorden » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:17 pm

Hurtful Thoughts wrote:
Purpelia wrote:No way! No way you are telling me that the whole ramrod packs up in so tight a space! If that be so than... how?

It's a chain.

It's hard to see, but it's a chain that only bends one way

Lydenburg wrote:While we're on the topic of turret storage, how plausible is with simply making do with one ammo rack behind the loader?

Like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EISdt3qyiY4
Last edited by Novorden on Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Purpelia
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Founded: Oct 19, 2010
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Postby Purpelia » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:19 pm

Lydenburg wrote:While we're on the topic of turret storage, how plausible is with simply making do with one ammo rack behind the loader?

Isn't that what every single tank with a manual loader did since like forever?
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Orussia
Minister
 
Posts: 2893
Founded: Jan 01, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Orussia » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:21 pm


Yeah, after doing some fast perusing of Google, the T-72's loader is mechanical, not hydraulic. Although it being a chain is kinda odd.
Type 90 has best autoloader.
RIP Rhoderberg
14/9/2013 - 15/8/2015
May your spirit live on in FALhalla.
The Anglo-Saxon Empire wrote:His penetrator is MASSIVE!
Talon independent nation wrote:And so missiles did come unto man, and man did see it was good, and did smite down the land battleships of his foe with totally awesome explosions.

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Lydenburg
Senator
 
Posts: 4592
Founded: May 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Lydenburg » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:43 pm

Purpelia wrote:
Lydenburg wrote:While we're on the topic of turret storage, how plausible is with simply making do with one ammo rack behind the loader?

Isn't that what every single tank with a manual loader did since like forever?


Quite so. But what I meant was keeping say, half the shells in the total tank behind the loader. Divvy it up so that half are behind the loader and the other half at the bottom of the turret basket. Plausible?

Gallia- wrote:Chieftain had an ammo rack behind the loader.

It held four rounds.


Possible to cram more in there?



Precisely.

Ek bly in Australie nou, maar Afrika sal altyd in my hart wees. Maak nie saak wat gebeur nie, ek is trots om te kan sê ek is 'n kind van hierdie ingewikkelde soms wrede kontinent. Mis jou altyd my Suid-Afrika, hier met n seer hart al die pad van Melbourne af!



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Lydenburg
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Posts: 4592
Founded: May 20, 2011
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Postby Lydenburg » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:57 pm

Gallia- wrote:If it were possible to put more rounds in the loader rack, I imagine the British would not have found it necessary to line the turret ring with ammunition.


Larger turret.
Last edited by Lydenburg on Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ek bly in Australie nou, maar Afrika sal altyd in my hart wees. Maak nie saak wat gebeur nie, ek is trots om te kan sê ek is 'n kind van hierdie ingewikkelde soms wrede kontinent. Mis jou altyd my Suid-Afrika, hier met n seer hart al die pad van Melbourne af!


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Hurtful Thoughts
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Posts: 7217
Founded: Sep 09, 2005
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Hurtful Thoughts » Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:22 pm


Like a tape-measure, being used as a ram-rod.

Usually built so that the chain's own mass keeps it from buckling.

I know this because USS Wisconsin uses the same rammer.
Orussia wrote:

Yeah, after doing some fast perusing of Google, the T-72's loader is mechanical, not hydraulic. Although it being a chain is kinda odd.
Type 90 has best autoloader.

It's not odd at all. It's even what allows the gun to be power-rammed while at elevation.
Last edited by Hurtful Thoughts on Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:28 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Factbook and general referance thread.
HOI <- Storefront (WiP)
Due to population-cuts, military-size currently being revised

The People's Republic of Hurtful Thoughts is a gargantuan, environmentally stunning nation, ruled by Leader with an even hand, and renowned for its compulsory military service, multi-spousal wedding ceremonies, and smutty television.
Mokostana wrote:See, Hurty cared not if the mission succeeded or not, as long as it was spectacular trainwreck. Sometimes that was the host Nation firing a SCUD into a hospital to destroy a foreign infection and accidentally sparking a rebellion... or accidentally starting the Mokan Drug War

Blackhelm Confederacy wrote:If there was only a "like" button for NS posts....

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Purpelia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34249
Founded: Oct 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Purpelia » Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:24 pm

Hurtful Thoughts wrote:

Like a tape-measure, being used as a ram-rod.

Usually built so that the chain's own mass keeps it from buckling.

Thanks. All I needed to know.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Chebucto Provinces
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Posts: 297
Founded: May 06, 2014
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Postby Chebucto Provinces » Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:37 pm

Gallia- wrote:If it were possible to put more rounds in the loader rack, I imagine the British would not have found it necessary to line the turret ring with ammunition.


It's limited not due to space, but due to priorities. The Brits only put four ready rounds in there because they could. The bustle was actually for the radios and NBC kit, and the rounds were an after thought.

Many other tanks have much higher numbers of rounds in the bustle. Tanks like AMX-30 fill the bustle with rounds.

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Gallia-
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
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Founded: Oct 09, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gallia- » Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:01 pm

Chebucto Provinces wrote:
Gallia- wrote:If it were possible to put more rounds in the loader rack, I imagine the British would not have found it necessary to line the turret ring with ammunition.


It's limited not due to space, but due to priorities. The Brits only put four ready rounds in there because they could. The bustle was actually for the radios and NBC kit, and the rounds were an after thought.

Many other tanks have much higher numbers of rounds in the bustle. Tanks like AMX-30 fill the bustle with rounds.


It seems like the assumption was that the bustle is most vulnerable to attack, so put radios there. Put the powder charges under the turret, and the projectiles EVERYWHERE. Since you're using a lot of fairly inert projectiles it's safe.

That way the combustibles are most protected from direct attack even on the flanks, and a penetration of the fighting compartment doesn't necessarily mean you die horribly, unless it hits the loader rack where complete rounds are or something. That rack was wet though iirc, so even that might not be too terrible?

Storing rounds outside a large bulkhead protected turret bustle is kinda lol tbh. Hull storage isn't hugely necessary if you can just separate the crew and ammunition in the bustle like on M1 you'll still have at least 34-36 rounds which is fine for pretty much anything. If it's smaller than 120mm you start hitting 40+ with turret alone. Volume of hull eaten up by ammunition can instead be used for radios or other more important things.
Last edited by Gallia- on Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Chebucto Provinces
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Founded: May 06, 2014
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Postby Chebucto Provinces » Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:49 pm

The radios being in the turret bustle is actually to do with the ability of the TC to operate them. They are there for easy access to the TC. This is pretty universal in modern tanks, with some more compact radios being available to some nations. Or simy being used by them. When we updated radios in the mid 1990s on the old C1s we easily cut the space used in half, and the radios we were using before were not old by military standards, top of the line in the late 1970s.

Historically the turret bustle tends to be what the TC and loader need to access. Radios were bulky, hydraulics and backups and NBC systems were also bulky. Then things began to shrink. Abrams moved radios around inside that huge turret to make all-bustle stowage work, but others didn't.

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The Kievan People
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Posts: 11387
Founded: Jul 02, 2004
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Postby The Kievan People » Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:05 pm

Purpelia wrote:I do not think you can get a telescoping system that folds up that much. I mean I think. Hydraulics were newer my field of choice.


The rammer is a chain. It coils up when it retracts.
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The Kievan People
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Postby The Kievan People » Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:11 pm

Make the bustle longer. Make the rounds longer and thinner. Triple stack them in the bustle with a tray autoloader.

Problems = Solved.

Then you can fill the hull with fuel tanks for #winning.

Edit: I am too lazy too measure but those 125mm shells look oversized.
Last edited by The Kievan People on Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RIP
Your Nation's Main Battle Tank (No Mechs)
10/06/2009 - 23/02/2013
Gone but not forgotten
DEUS STATUS: ( X ) VULT ( ) NOT VULT
Leopard 2 IRL
Imperializt Russia wrote:kyiv rn irl

Anemos wrote:<Anemos> thx Kyiv D:
<Anemos> you are the eternal onii-san

Europe, a cool region for cool people. Click to find out more.

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Rich and Corporations
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Postby Rich and Corporations » Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:32 pm

https://www.meggittdefense.com/index.ph ... iew&id=363
Rather, the bustle is isolated from the crew by a solid armor bulkhead, penetrated only by a small blast port less than one tenth the size of the doors. This trade-off reduces the weight of the weapon station by over four hundred pounds while retaining the same number of rounds.
That bulkhead as it currently is very heavy. Apparently over four hundred pounds.
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The Kievan People
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Founded: Jul 02, 2004
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Postby The Kievan People » Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:40 pm

That is intentional, actually. The Abrams heavy bustle offsets the weight of the armor and gun keeping the turret well balanced despite it's huge size.
RIP
Your Nation's Main Battle Tank (No Mechs)
10/06/2009 - 23/02/2013
Gone but not forgotten
DEUS STATUS: ( X ) VULT ( ) NOT VULT
Leopard 2 IRL
Imperializt Russia wrote:kyiv rn irl

Anemos wrote:<Anemos> thx Kyiv D:
<Anemos> you are the eternal onii-san

Europe, a cool region for cool people. Click to find out more.

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