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Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Tranche 7

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Purpelia
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Founded: Oct 19, 2010
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Postby Purpelia » Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:46 pm

Neu-Pommern wrote:That's neat as hell. I'm considering drawin up an indigenous APC base on a modernized / updated M113, complete with notAIFVs, command posts, etc... Probably designed / introduced in the late 80s

The French beat you to it by a decade.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Neu-Pommern
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Posts: 466
Founded: Oct 11, 2014
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Postby Neu-Pommern » Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:51 pm

Sorta like that but lighter, lower ground pressure, less frotal armour (14.5mm v 25mm class protection), integral dozer blade, and a few other differences.
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Lydenburg
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Founded: May 20, 2011
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Postby Lydenburg » Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:42 pm

Purpelia wrote:
Neu-Pommern wrote:That's neat as hell. I'm considering drawin up an indigenous APC base on a modernized / updated M113, complete with notAIFVs, command posts, etc... Probably designed / introduced in the late 80s

The French beat you to it by a decade.


The French were also the first to put a big gun on an M113, if I'm not mistaken. Same turret as the AML-90s. They showed it at Satory in '71.
Last edited by Lydenburg on Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Orussia
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Founded: Jan 01, 2012
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Postby Orussia » Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:36 pm

Question.
Are rear ramps better than side-hinged doors for IFVs?
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The Kievan People
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Posts: 11387
Founded: Jul 02, 2004
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Postby The Kievan People » Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:39 pm

Orussia wrote:Question.
Are rear ramps better than side-hinged doors for IFVs?


In my opinion they are.
Last edited by The Kievan People on Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Korva
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Founded: Apr 22, 2013
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Postby Korva » Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:42 pm

Orussia wrote:Question.
Are rear ramps better than side-hinged doors for IFVs?

Yes, ramp makes it easier to load gear and casualties. Rear mounting means you are covered from enemy fire.

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Orussia
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Founded: Jan 01, 2012
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Postby Orussia » Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:47 pm

Korva wrote:
Orussia wrote:Question.
Are rear ramps better than side-hinged doors for IFVs?

Yes, ramp makes it easier to load gear and casualties. Rear mounting means you are covered from enemy fire.

I meant side-hinged like the BMP-1's. They're still at the rear, but the doors are hinged to swing horizontally.
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May your spirit live on in FALhalla.
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Fordorsia
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Posts: 20431
Founded: Oct 04, 2012
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Postby Fordorsia » Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:15 pm

Orussia wrote:Question.
Are rear ramps better than side-hinged doors for IFVs?


I suppose side-hinged doors could provide cover for disembarking, less so if they're two smaller doors instead of one larger one, but a ramp would make it quicker and easier to get in or out, so I'd go with that.

Maybe you could have two plates over the closed ramp that swing out as it opens to provide some cover?
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Hurtful Thoughts
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Founded: Sep 09, 2005
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Postby Hurtful Thoughts » Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:46 pm

Orussia wrote:Question.
Are rear ramps better than side-hinged doors for IFVs?

Ramps allow for easier cargo egress, doors have long been favored for passenger-use and somewhat despised when trying to manhandle heavy equipment through a side-swinging door (especially double-doors with a beam in the middle, or worse, a single door that is smaller than it needed to be).

On the other hand, ramps tend to be heavier and more complex, and it's kinda impossible to get in or out that way until the door is nearly completely open.

IIRC, the Japanese went "why not both" and put a door on/through their ramp for this reason.

Ultimately, the hatch you get usually is whatever the person in charge of procurement hates the least at that particular time.
Last edited by Hurtful Thoughts on Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:51 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Chebucto Provinces
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Founded: May 06, 2014
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Postby Chebucto Provinces » Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:46 pm

Hurtful Thoughts wrote:IIRC, the Japanese went "why not both" and put a door on/through their ramp for this reason.


You will find that most vehicles with powered rear ramps have a small door in the ramp. This is not a unique trait to the Japanese. In fact it predates any Japanese vehicle I can find using it elsewhere by decades.

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Orussia
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Founded: Jan 01, 2012
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Postby Orussia » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:02 pm

Gallia- wrote:http://iiwiki.com/wiki/Stridsvagn_151

It's probably done.

Actually...
"Diagram showing the relative merits of conventional steel homogenous armour versus siliceous core armour."
should be
"Diagram showing the relative merits of siliceous core armour versus conventional steel homogenous armour."
RIP Rhoderberg
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May your spirit live on in FALhalla.
The Anglo-Saxon Empire wrote:His penetrator is MASSIVE!
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Gallia-
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Founded: Oct 09, 2013
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Postby Gallia- » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:04 pm

Orussia wrote:
Gallia- wrote:http://iiwiki.com/wiki/Stridsvagn_151

It's probably done.

Actually...
"Diagram showing the relative merits of conventional steel homogenous armour versus siliceous core armour."
should be
"Diagram showing the relative merits of siliceous core armour versus conventional steel homogenous armour."


Should it?

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Orussia
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Founded: Jan 01, 2012
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Postby Orussia » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:05 pm

Gallia- wrote:
Orussia wrote:Actually...
"Diagram showing the relative merits of conventional steel homogenous armour versus siliceous core armour."
should be
"Diagram showing the relative merits of siliceous core armour versus conventional steel homogenous armour."


Should it?

With the diagram provided, yes.
RIP Rhoderberg
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May your spirit live on in FALhalla.
The Anglo-Saxon Empire wrote:His penetrator is MASSIVE!
Talon independent nation wrote:And so missiles did come unto man, and man did see it was good, and did smite down the land battleships of his foe with totally awesome explosions.


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Orussia
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Founded: Jan 01, 2012
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Postby Orussia » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:12 pm

Gallia- wrote:
Orussia wrote:With the diagram provided, yes.


Why?

Because the diagram you posted is not trying to state that RHA is superior, it's saying that the composites are better.
The language used in the caption is saying that the diagram is proclaiming the advantages of RHA over composite.

Stupid English language.
RIP Rhoderberg
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May your spirit live on in FALhalla.
The Anglo-Saxon Empire wrote:His penetrator is MASSIVE!
Talon independent nation wrote:And so missiles did come unto man, and man did see it was good, and did smite down the land battleships of his foe with totally awesome explosions.

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Gallia-
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Founded: Oct 09, 2013
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Postby Gallia- » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:14 pm

Orussia wrote:
Gallia- wrote:
Why?

Because the diagram you posted is not trying to state that RHA is superior, it's saying that the composites are better.
The language used in the caption is saying that the diagram is proclaiming the advantages of RHA over composite.

Stupid English language.


Then why does the diagram itself not follow your grammatical rule?

The advantages of RHA are implied.

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The Soodean Imperium
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Founded: May 10, 2013
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Postby The Soodean Imperium » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:15 pm

Purpelia wrote:
Chebucto Provinces wrote:Guys, crazy crazy idea time.

In the early 1960s, taking naval Mollins gun autoloader systems and mating them with 50 caliber 6 pounder anti-tank gun. Put this into a two man turret and slap the whole thing onto an IFV.

I do not know about IFV's. But now I am tempted to put one of those on a tank. Seriously, an autoloaded 57mm from the 40's sounds like the most awesome tank weapon ever for the era.

An autoloaded 57mm from the 40's on a tank chassis is nothing crazy-new to be honest. The Soviets did it back in 1955.

Image

As a SPAAG it suffered from the usual drawbacks of the 57mm caliber, but apparently the Vietnamese and Syrians found it to be decently effective against ground targets.
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Puzikas
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Founded: Nov 24, 2012
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Postby Puzikas » Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:01 am

The Soodean Imperium wrote:
Purpelia wrote:I do not know about IFV's. But now I am tempted to put one of those on a tank. Seriously, an autoloaded 57mm from the 40's sounds like the most awesome tank weapon ever for the era.

An autoloaded 57mm from the 40's on a tank chassis is nothing crazy-new to be honest. The Soviets did it back in 1955.

Image

As a SPAAG it suffered from the usual drawbacks of the 57mm caliber, but apparently the Vietnamese and Syrians found it to be decently effective against ground targets.


<3 ZSU-57-2
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Purpelia
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Founded: Oct 19, 2010
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Postby Purpelia » Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:50 am

The Soodean Imperium wrote:An autoloaded 57mm from the 40's on a tank chassis is nothing crazy-new to be honest. The Soviets did it back in 1955.

Sure, but that's a decade and a half too late and for a different role than what I envisioned. I am talking about something like a T-34-57 packing a Zis-2 equivalent but autoloaded for short bursts of AT goodness.
Last edited by Purpelia on Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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The balkens
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Founded: Sep 19, 2012
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Postby The balkens » Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:54 am

Puzikas wrote:
The Soodean Imperium wrote:An autoloaded 57mm from the 40's on a tank chassis is nothing crazy-new to be honest. The Soviets did it back in 1955.

Image

As a SPAAG it suffered from the usual drawbacks of the 57mm caliber, but apparently the Vietnamese and Syrians found it to be decently effective against ground targets.


<3 ZSU-57-2


Looks like something I would see in the "Hilariously bad design" part of a museum.

Not that I am doubting it's capabilities.

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San-Silvacian
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Founded: Aug 11, 2011
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Postby San-Silvacian » Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:57 am

Purpelia wrote:
The Soodean Imperium wrote:An autoloaded 57mm from the 40's on a tank chassis is nothing crazy-new to be honest. The Soviets did it back in 1955.

Sure, but that's a decade and a half too late and for a different role than what I envisioned. I am talking about something like a T-34-57 packing a Zis-2 equivalent but autoloaded for short bursts of AT goodness.


Sounds wholly useless.

Like most other things from the great designers of Purpelia.
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Purpelia
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Posts: 34249
Founded: Oct 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Purpelia » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:05 am

San-Silvacian wrote:
Purpelia wrote:Sure, but that's a decade and a half too late and for a different role than what I envisioned. I am talking about something like a T-34-57 packing a Zis-2 equivalent but autoloaded for short bursts of AT goodness.


Sounds wholly useless.

Like most other things from the great designers of Purpelia.

That actually sounds fine to me. I have this idea of it being a funky prototype that newer went anywhere but is interesting never the less. So I am looking for a list of reasons other than complicated and costly manufacturing that would make it go wrong.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Connori Pilgrims
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Posts: 1794
Founded: Nov 14, 2012
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Connori Pilgrims » Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:01 am

Purpelia wrote:
San-Silvacian wrote:
Sounds wholly useless.

Like most other things from the great designers of Purpelia.

That actually sounds fine to me. I have this idea of it being a funky prototype that newer went anywhere but is interesting never the less. So I am looking for a list of reasons other than complicated and costly manufacturing that would make it go wrong.


AT Utility at range drastically decreasing; the 57mm only is really good for frontline combat use by vehicles up to 1943; after which the only logical place to see them should be infantry AT gun units, with vehicles packing bigger guns. Having a vehicle that would be obsolete rather quickly is a good reason to abandon it, although that depends on how good your people are at predicting such things.
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