Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Tranche 7

[New Visegrad]

And as a minor side note, how willing would some of you guys be to have your vehicles feature as cameos?

I'd be okay with a Sera showing up (if you can get Eastern imports in post-apocalyptic Europe...).

Full name: BLV-12 / BLV-12-A Sera
Production: 2012-2016
Main gun: Achura A17-125 125mm
Coaxial: Chen-Xi Kido 12.7mm MG
Commander's gun: Chen-Xi Ikido 7.62mm MG
Powerplant: Soqung Industrial Visala IV 1650shp

[Registug]

Well any ammunition from before the nuclear apocalypse would be well over two hundred and fifty years old by that point, so I'm not sure how well the quality would hold up.

And also there's been a lot of war between then and now, yeah? If it's usable, it's been used already.

[Novorden]

Are these the sort of things you were thinking?

Not really. I just basically have to think up a good insignia for my air force. But when ever I try I end up with stuff that's ugly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_aircraft_insignia

few quick ideas

[Registug]

Holy shit that's good

Mine's pretty simple, really. I'm sure anybody could guess it.

[Auroya]

And as a minor side note, how willing would some of you guys be to have your vehicles feature as cameos?

Possibly; are you only taking ground vehicles?

[Laywenrania]

Would it be possible (and make any sense) to fit composite add-on armour like on the later Leopard 2 versions and the romanian TR-85 to the turret and then slab ERA on it additionaly?

[The Kievan People]

Would it be possible (and make any sense) to fit composite add-on armour like on the later Leopard 2 versions and the romanian TR-85 to the turret and then slab ERA on it additionaly?

A better idea would be to melt the TR-85 down and use the metal to make armor for a decent tank.

[Laywenrania]

Would it be possible (and make any sense) to fit composite add-on armour like on the later Leopard 2 versions and the romanian TR-85 to the turret and then slab ERA on it additionaly?

A better idea would be to melt the TR-85 down and use the metal to make armor for a decent tank.

This has literally nothing to do with my question?

[Purpelia]

A better idea would be to melt the TR-85 down and use the metal to make armor for a decent tank.

This has literally nothing to do with my question?

It answers the "and make any sense" part.

[The Kievan People]

Even if your country is nowhere land you should be able to get some bargain basement T-72 tanks or whatever China sells.

[Yukonastan]

Incestuous nazi dinosaurs.

where did that guy go



Anyway, maybe not NS related but certainly ground vehicle related: I am writing a quest (kinda like a live-written choose your own adventure) in which post apocalyptic Eastern Europe where a lot of people are mercenaries in very old fixed up tanks and shit. My players have currently picked a Leo 1A3 as their tank.

Of course I'm going to be handwaving a lot of stuff in the interests of keeping things simple, but at the same time I'd like to have things as 'authentic' as possible (not realistic, but close enough to get by). This is my current 'upgrade tree' for the Leopard 1, and it's still a WIP; I'm wondering if I can get by with something like this. Note I'm taking into account stuff like ammo and repairs, but I am ignoring fuel costs.

I'd like to know what I should consider when writing out this kind of situation, especially an explanation in the various types of FCS for the Leopard 1 and how that would work out in the context of my little 'upgrade tree'.
Also, ammo; jerry rigged steel AP is the most common type of ammo, with standard HE as the second most common and cheap steel based APFSDS as the third. Then there's HEAT which is uncommon, and then 'premium' APFSDS which will be made of stuff like tungsten or DU and be sort of a 'super round' in-universe. How much should I go into the different penetration stuff of these different ammunitions, if at all? And what about ballistics and such? So far I haven't really thought about it, but the previous conversation about Leopard 1 FCS and the ammunition ballistics limitation has made me think.


And as a minor side note, how willing would some of you guys be to have your vehicles feature as cameos?

If at all possible, my Leopard 1 derived (slightly smaller) add-on slathered tank has been numerically built a few pages back.

[Orussia]

Would it be possible (and make any sense) to fit composite add-on armour like on the later Leopard 2 versions and the romanian TR-85 to the turret and then slab ERA on it additionaly?

A better idea would be to melt the TR-85 down and use the metal to make armor for a decent tank.

u wot m8
The TR-85 is best child of best tank.
Now I'm tempted to find out if the Ukrainian upgrades can be applied to it.

[Registug]

Kyiv, he doesn't want to put the armour ON the TR-85, he wants armour LIKE the TR-85

[Laywenrania]

I'm not talking about to get some TR-85 for my army.

But: To fit the triangular addon-armour, which is seen p.e. on the TR-85s and Leopard 2s turrets on my tanks armour and then put additional ERA on it.

edit: ninjaed.

[The Kievan People]

Kyiv, he doesn't want to put the armour ON the TR-85, he wants armour LIKE the TR-85

Ohhhh.

The TR-85 has nothing like the Leopard 2s armor. That confused me.

Edit: The Leopard 2A6s arrows do basically the same thing as ERA.

[Dostanuot Loj]

Well any ammunition from before the nuclear apocalypse would be well over two hundred and fifty years old by that point, so I'm not sure how well the quality would hold up.

And also there's been a lot of war between then and now, yeah? If it's usable, it's been used already.

I'll say this then: After 250 years, the only thing you would have that would still work would be the ammunition.
Hulls crack.
Turrets crack.
Turret rings are a bitch to deal with.
Electronics are not fun.
Hydraulics are not fun.
Refined lubricants are needed.
And so on into infinity.
Canadian Leopard 1s took only five years of the lowest level of maintenance needed to run them to go from excellent to scavenging not-broken parts from monuments to put 15 out of an original 127 tanks into service somewhere in low intensity combat.

Post-apocolyptic tanks won't happen, unless they're built then. When the industry to maintain them goes, they go very quickly. At that point you're more likely scavenging those still good ammunition for the tank to use its propellent and explosives then you are actually having a tank anywhere.

[Registug]

Well shit, looks like I've been operating under a popular misconception.

I don't think I'll be the one telling the players that, lol.

[Yukonastan]

Well shit, looks like I've been operating under a popular misconception.

I don't think I'll be the one telling the players that, lol.

Eh, do maintenance religiously like in Warhammer. Assume that tanks have been religiously maintained for the past hundred years, and that the hundred and fifty before that they were actively maintained by the remnants of the old society.

Something something appease the machine spirits.

[Laywenrania]

Edit: The Leopard 2A6s arrows do basically the same thing as ERA.

Idea would be to use this and enhance the protection by using a first layer of ERA; then the Leo arrows, and then the armour itself. If it works.^^

[Registug]

Well shit, looks like I've been operating under a popular misconception.

I don't think I'll be the one telling the players that, lol.

Eh, do maintenance religiously like in Warhammer. Assume that tanks have been religiously maintained for the past hundred years, and that the hundred and fifty before that they were actively maintained by the remnants of the old society.

Something something appease the machine spirits.

That's the story behind the mythical super tanks, sure, but the quest starts out with the player having found a working tank abandoned in the graveyards, filling her up and taking her home to fix up.

I'm just going to conveniently forget the truth and operate like I have been.

[Dostanuot Loj]

Well shit, looks like I've been operating under a popular misconception.

I don't think I'll be the one telling the players that, lol.

People don't seem to understand how much work tanks take.
They are excellent force multipliers.
But they take a lot of work, both in maintenance and industry, to keep running.

If your car were a tank:
- Your car would break down every day, at least once.
- You would have to replace your tires every week.
- Wheels, brakes, suspension, etc. would need to be replaced every other week, and at least one would break within a week of being installed new anyway.
- You would have to check and update your fluids every day, and replace them every week.
- Every fluid in your vehicle would leak every day.
- You'd have to get your doors/hood/trunk/roof repaired by welding every few weeks.
- Your chassis and important parts would need welding repairs more often then your doors.
- Your battery would die, every other day.

I could keep going but that gives a great example. I've known retired tankers who have told me it's easier and less involved to keep a custom built drag racing car maintained to competitive status then it is to keep a tank operating at a low tempo in peace time.

[Orussia]

Edit: The Leopard 2A6s arrows do basically the same thing as ERA.

Idea would be to use this and enhance the protection by using a first layer of ERA; then the Leo arrows, and then the armour itself. If it works.^^

To be honest, that's pretty much the idea I had when I made this turret. I don't see why it wouldn't work.

[Dostanuot Loj]

Edit: The Leopard 2A6s arrows do basically the same thing as ERA.

Idea would be to use this and enhance the protection by using a first layer of ERA; then the Leo arrows, and then the armour itself. If it works.^^

Not really.
Leo's arrows work by forcing the LRP to turn into the air cavity and thus strike the main armour plate at a significantly less then optimal angle, sideways.
They don't work on LRPs that don't dig into armour (Most modern ones do to defeat sloping). And they still rely on the main armour to take the strike.

ERA, on the other hand, works to disrupt the flight path of the LRP to cause it to strike the main armour plate at a significantly less then optimal angle, also sideways. It works on all LRPs, though.

ERA on these arrow-head pieces would really just be ERA. When the ERA goes off the likelihood is that the add on armour below it is damaged anyway, and thus ineffective.
And then you still have the rather poor armour of the TR-85 to actually stop things.

It's better to just slather it in ERA.

[Laywenrania]

ERA on these arrow-head pieces would really just be ERA. When the ERA goes off the likelihood is that the add on armour below it is damaged anyway, and thus ineffective.

It's better to just slather it in ERA.

That was my fear.
Well, then I just slather it in ERA

[San-Silvacian]

We got an M109 back from the motor pool after they 'fixed' something unrelated to the engine.

Broke the same day by running the engine.

Also we were putting in weeks worth of maintenance into them when we'd only user them for a week at the most.