NATION

PASSWORD

Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Tranche 7

A place to put national factbooks, embassy exchanges, and other information regarding the nations of the world. [In character]

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Talon Independent Nation
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 100
Founded: Oct 12, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Talon Independent Nation » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:17 am

Yukonastan wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:They actually do. Quite a lot, really.
The Abrams burns gallons an hour with engine idling.

Tracks still don't burn fuel when just sitting there, for example when the tank is shut down for whatever reason.

The Abrams is also one of a small handful of tanks with gas turbines, and is backed by the US. Now imagine you have a hovertank, with a large number of fans or ground jets. Imagine what that burns. Gallons per minute.


While a modern tracked vehicle (turbine or conventional engine) may be massively fuel-thirsty compared to other vehicles, they'd be relative lightweights compared to any hovering vehicle.

If you have a hovering vehicle based on a modern hovercraft (air cushion) system it would likely be the least thirsty of the possible options, but would still be incredibly impractical. The skirts would be a massive weakness, as well as the air intakes and forward propulsion fans/thrusters. It would be much more likely to be disabled by small arms fire, and would float around like an air-hockey puck when pushed by anything harder than a mild breeze.

If you were to go with a fan driven, fully hovering vehicle things would get exponentially worse. The amount of thrust needed to lift a tank weighing, say, 50 tons a few feet off the ground would be absolutely insane, and would require very large, very vulnerable fan or jet nacelles. The energy consumption would be positively mind numbing, as well, meaning that you would either have to fill most of the hull with fuel to keep it running for any length of time, or stick some kind of energy generating reactor in it. All of this would mean that your armor would be spread thin and awkwardly laid out, making your hovering tank an easy target for anything down to a basic AT rifle. Besides all this, it would suffer even more from the air-hockey puck problem, and would likely go flying off a good hundred feet in any direction when the main gun was fired.

If you want to go really sci-fi you could argue for the merits of a gravity manipulation system, but unless you're using 100% pure bullshitanium it will have just as many, if not more issues. The thing is that such a system would still be a massive energy hog, as the basic laws of the universe do not take a day off when you put enough science into something, and you're still causing a big heavy bit of metal to levitate several feet off the ground. Besides the same basic energy consumption issues, you'd also have to contend with the massive technological complexity of such a system. Tracks are fairly easy to fix, and it could be argued that most grunts should be able to fix a big fan to at least some degree, but in general one wouldn't consider most tank crews to be able to repair a massively complex gravitational lensing generator. Depending on the type of bullshitanium you fuel it with, you might be able to get away with not having such a system float around like the two other methods, but that's questionable at best.

While everyone else seems to have said it pretty well previously, I just wanted to get a bit of rant in on the subject.
So, in short, if you want a tank that flies, get an attack chopper, because hovering vehicles and tons of armor just don't mix well.


*Edit*
Whups, top of the page, looks like I owe everyone some military porn, right?
Image
Last edited by Talon Independent Nation on Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
“Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.”
―Arthur C. Clarke

User avatar
The Greater Luthorian Empire
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1403
Founded: Mar 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Greater Luthorian Empire » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:45 am

Merkava's disgusting it is like the BBW of tank porn.
Imperializt Russia wrote:They told me I could be anything, so I became a razor blade.

User avatar
Yukonastan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7251
Founded: May 17, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Yukonastan » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:49 am

The Greater Luthorian Empire wrote:Merkava's disgusting it is like the BBW of tank porn.

Merkava is amazing. It has a rear hatch, and uses chains to pre-det RPGs.
this guy is a fucking furry and a therian
Btw, here's my IC flag

"Purp go to bed." - Nirvash Type TheEnd

User avatar
Purpelia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34249
Founded: Oct 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Purpelia » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:50 am

@Talon independent nation

You forgot the wildcard solution. Ducted jet exhaust. As in, Avrocar. This one is especially useful for not only does it suffer from all the maneuverability and energy issues of the lift fan design and all the maintenance issues of the antigravity design but it also comes with an extra helping of issues courtesy of the searing hot jet exhaust that melts roads and sets stuff under the vehicle on fire.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

User avatar
Fordorsia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20431
Founded: Oct 04, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Fordorsia » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:50 am

The Greater Luthorian Empire wrote:Merkava's disgusting it is like the BBW of tank porn.


Except the Merkeva is practical. Fat people aren't.
Pro: Swords
Anti: Guns

San-Silvacian wrote:Forgot to take off my Rhodie shorts when I went to sleep.
Woke up in bitches and enemy combatants.

Crookfur wrote:Speak for yourself, Crookfur infantry enjoy the sheer uber high speed low drag operator nature of their tactical woad

Spreewerke wrote:One of our employees ate a raw kidney and a raw liver and the only powers he gained was the ability to summon a massive hospital bill.

Premislyd wrote:This is probably the best thing somebody has ever spammed.

Puzikas wrote:That joke was so dark it has to smile to be seen at night.

User avatar
Purpelia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34249
Founded: Oct 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Purpelia » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:53 am

Fordorsia wrote:
The Greater Luthorian Empire wrote:Merkava's disgusting it is like the BBW of tank porn.


Except the Merkeva is practical. Fat people aren't.

On the contrary. Both are eerily alike when it comes to practicality. That is to say, both are excellently adapted to very niche roles. One being the military situation of israel and the other being a very cold weathered food scarcity scenario.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

User avatar
Allmann
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1820
Founded: Jan 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Allmann » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:00 am

Image
Going to begin on the tracks sometime, ugh..
Also anything that looks strange? Any ideas on things to add when it's been refined a bit?

User avatar
The Kievan People
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11387
Founded: Jul 02, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby The Kievan People » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:01 am

Purpelia wrote:On the contrary. Both are eerily alike when it comes to practicality. That is to say, both are excellently adapted to very niche roles. One being the military situation of israel and the other being a very cold weathered food scarcity scenario.


:roll:

This meme is still dumb. The Merkava is a fine MBT, it is no more niche than any other modern tank.
RIP
Your Nation's Main Battle Tank (No Mechs)
10/06/2009 - 23/02/2013
Gone but not forgotten
DEUS STATUS: ( X ) VULT ( ) NOT VULT
Leopard 2 IRL
Imperializt Russia wrote:kyiv rn irl

Anemos wrote:<Anemos> thx Kyiv D:
<Anemos> you are the eternal onii-san

Europe, a cool region for cool people. Click to find out more.

User avatar
Fordorsia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20431
Founded: Oct 04, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Fordorsia » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:02 am

Allmann wrote:(Image)
Going to begin on the tracks sometime, ugh..
Also anything that looks strange? Any ideas on things to add when it's been refined a bit?


The colours are pretty distracting.
Pro: Swords
Anti: Guns

San-Silvacian wrote:Forgot to take off my Rhodie shorts when I went to sleep.
Woke up in bitches and enemy combatants.

Crookfur wrote:Speak for yourself, Crookfur infantry enjoy the sheer uber high speed low drag operator nature of their tactical woad

Spreewerke wrote:One of our employees ate a raw kidney and a raw liver and the only powers he gained was the ability to summon a massive hospital bill.

Premislyd wrote:This is probably the best thing somebody has ever spammed.

Puzikas wrote:That joke was so dark it has to smile to be seen at night.

User avatar
Allmann
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1820
Founded: Jan 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Allmann » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:06 am

Fordorsia wrote:
Allmann wrote:(Image)
Going to begin on the tracks sometime, ugh..
Also anything that looks strange? Any ideas on things to add when it's been refined a bit?


The colours are pretty distracting.


Perfect camouflage then.
Coloured it that way mainly for ease of drawing.

User avatar
The Soodean Imperium
Senator
 
Posts: 4859
Founded: May 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Soodean Imperium » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:22 am

Allmann wrote:
Fordorsia wrote:
The colours are pretty distracting.


Perfect camouflage then.
Coloured it that way mainly for ease of drawing.

The front of the turret looks a little odd, given that the bottom slope is longer than the top; the periscope-like optics also seem a little unusual. And the location of the toothed wheel suggests that the transmission is in front, which is an odd layout for a modern MBT.

Other than that (and the temporary coloring, of course) it seems to be coming along nicely.
Last edited by The Soodean Imperium on Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Last harmonized by Hu Jintao on Sat Mar 4, 2006 2:33pm, harmonized 8 times in total.


"In short, when we hastily attribute to aesthetic and inherited faculties the artistic nature of Athenian civilization, we are almost proceeding as did men in the Middle Ages, when fire was explained by phlogiston and the effects of opium by its soporific powers." --Emile Durkheim, 1895
Come join Septentrion!
ICly, this nation is now known as the Socialist Republic of Menghe (대멩 사회주의 궁화국, 大孟社會主義共和國). You can still call me Soode in OOC.

User avatar
Spirit of Hope
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12103
Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spirit of Hope » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:24 am

The Kievan People wrote:
Purpelia wrote:On the contrary. Both are eerily alike when it comes to practicality. That is to say, both are excellently adapted to very niche roles. One being the military situation of israel and the other being a very cold weathered food scarcity scenario.


:roll:

This meme is still dumb. The Merkava is a fine MBT, it is no more niche than any other modern tank.


It is slightly niche, it makes some trade offs that other modern tanks don't make because of Israelis situation. It would still serve as a fine MBT in other areas, it just has some trade offs. The main problem is people not realizing these trade offs and thinking that the Merkava is thus a better tank. It isn't better it is just different.
Fact Book.
Helpful hints on combat vehicle terminology.

Imperializt Russia wrote:Support biblical marriage! One SoH and as many wives and sex slaves as he can afford!

User avatar
Allmann
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1820
Founded: Jan 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Allmann » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:30 am

The Soodean Imperium wrote:
Allmann wrote:
Perfect camouflage then.
Coloured it that way mainly for ease of drawing.

The front of the turret looks a little odd, given that the bottom slope is longer than the top; the periscope-like optics also seem a little unusual. And the location of the toothed wheel suggests that the transmission is in front, which is an odd layout for a modern MBT.

Other than that (and the temporary coloring, of course) it seems to be coming along nicely.


Is basically traced from the M-95 Degman but given what you said I will see if I cant do some changes to it.

User avatar
The Soodean Imperium
Senator
 
Posts: 4859
Founded: May 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Soodean Imperium » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:47 am

Allmann wrote:
The Soodean Imperium wrote:The front of the turret looks a little odd, given that the bottom slope is longer than the top; the periscope-like optics also seem a little unusual. And the location of the toothed wheel suggests that the transmission is in front, which is an odd layout for a modern MBT.

Other than that (and the temporary coloring, of course) it seems to be coming along nicely.


Is basically traced from the M-95 Degman but given what you said I will see if I cant do some changes to it.

Huh, so it is.

Don't take my word for it, but I have a nagging suspicion that this image of the M-95 Degman (possibly the one you used) may be erroneous; the tracks are "slack" (no upper return rollers) and the transmission is in front, while on the T-72 and M-90 Vikhor (upon which the M-95 is based) the tracks have return rollers and the transmission is in the rear. A real photo of the Degman seems to confirm this; one can't see the return rollers behind the armor skirts, but the transmission (marked by the toothed wheel) is clearly in the back:
Image
Last harmonized by Hu Jintao on Sat Mar 4, 2006 2:33pm, harmonized 8 times in total.


"In short, when we hastily attribute to aesthetic and inherited faculties the artistic nature of Athenian civilization, we are almost proceeding as did men in the Middle Ages, when fire was explained by phlogiston and the effects of opium by its soporific powers." --Emile Durkheim, 1895
Come join Septentrion!
ICly, this nation is now known as the Socialist Republic of Menghe (대멩 사회주의 궁화국, 大孟社會主義共和國). You can still call me Soode in OOC.

User avatar
Stahn
Senator
 
Posts: 4663
Founded: May 05, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Stahn » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:03 am

Allmann wrote:(Image)
Going to begin on the tracks sometime, ugh..
Also anything that looks strange? Any ideas on things to add when it's been refined a bit?


The lines make for a pretty nice tank but I don't understand what you have done with the colors and why.

User avatar
Talon Independent Nation
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 100
Founded: Oct 12, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Talon Independent Nation » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:07 am

Purpelia wrote:@Talon independent nation

You forgot the wildcard solution. Ducted jet exhaust. As in, Avrocar. This one is especially useful for not only does it suffer from all the maneuverability and energy issues of the lift fan design and all the maintenance issues of the antigravity design but it also comes with an extra helping of issues courtesy of the searing hot jet exhaust that melts roads and sets stuff under the vehicle on fire.


The Avrocar falls under the fan/jet lift umbrella, with the added bonus of being completely crap at everything.
The only thing it was actually good at was setting off flying saucer UFO conspiracy nuts and giving test pilots the same experience as riding an unruly horse.

The Greater Luthorian Empire wrote:Merkava's disgusting it is like the BBW of tank porn.


The funny thing is that the M1 Abrams is actually heavier, and the Merkava isn't much larger in profile than a later version Leopard 2.
“Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.”
―Arthur C. Clarke

User avatar
Chebucto Provinces
Envoy
 
Posts: 297
Founded: May 06, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Chebucto Provinces » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:12 am

In the mid-1970s are there really any reasons not to go with the Chieftain apart from power pack? Especially for a former British dominion in northern climate?

User avatar
The Greater Luthorian Empire
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1403
Founded: Mar 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Greater Luthorian Empire » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:12 am

Fordorsia wrote:
The Greater Luthorian Empire wrote:Merkava's disgusting it is like the BBW of tank porn.


Except the Merkeva is practical. Fat people aren't.

Practical for a very specific situation (Israel's) just like fat people are practical for a very specific situation (eating them when you are out of food). Doesn't mean they aren't both big and disgusting.
Imperializt Russia wrote:They told me I could be anything, so I became a razor blade.

User avatar
Anemos Major
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12691
Founded: Jun 01, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Anemos Major » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:13 am

The Kievan People wrote: :roll:

This meme is still dumb. The Merkava is a fine MBT, it is no more niche than any other modern tank.


Eh, it is a teensy bit niche. Much heavier side protection than comparable Western MBTs, and the forward mounted engine is arguably a historical result of the Israeli focus on defeating sophisticated HEAT over monkey model KEPs. There're a lot of other design quirks that're unique to the Merkava series that're worth bearing in mind - the loading and ammunition storage draws on the lessons of Yom Kippur in a big way as well.

But then of course, every nation's tank will reflect particular quirks within that nation, and I'm sure the Merkava would be a perfectly adequate battle tank in most tank combat scenarios despite its fairly unique design heritage.

User avatar
Anemos Major
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12691
Founded: Jun 01, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Anemos Major » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:16 am

Chebucto Provinces wrote:In the mid-1970s are there really any reasons not to go with the Chieftain apart from power pack? Especially for a former British dominion in northern climate?


It's quite heavy and slow for its time, I suppose? And its ammunition is pretty particular to the vehicle - you'll need a pretty hefty logistics investment to use the tank, I suppose. Otherwise, it's well armoured and armed with a faulty upscaled drivetrain that'll need to be looked at, but you seem to have that under control.

User avatar
Allmann
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1820
Founded: Jan 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Allmann » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:17 am

The Soodean Imperium wrote:
Allmann wrote:
Is basically traced from the M-95 Degman but given what you said I will see if I cant do some changes to it.

Huh, so it is.

Don't take my word for it, but I have a nagging suspicion that this image of the M-95 Degman (possibly the one you used) may be erroneous; the tracks are "slack" (no upper return rollers) and the transmission is in front, while on the T-72 and M-90 Vikhor (upon which the M-95 is based) the tracks have return rollers and the transmission is in the rear. A real photo of the Degman seems to confirm this; one can't see the return rollers behind the armor skirts, but the transmission (marked by the toothed wheel) is clearly in the back:
Image


Yes, that is the one I used.
Will change accordingly, thanks for pointing it out.

Stahn wrote:
Allmann wrote:(Image)
Going to begin on the tracks sometime, ugh..
Also anything that looks strange? Any ideas on things to add when it's been refined a bit?


The lines make for a pretty nice tank but I don't understand what you have done with the colors and why.


Merely to help me visualize what parts is what and to remove all the white jpg pixles.

User avatar
Macedonian Grand Empire
Minister
 
Posts: 2771
Founded: Jan 08, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Macedonian Grand Empire » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:17 am

Guys what do you think what weight would a 140 mm projectile weight?
NSG Senate
Senator Branko Aleksic Deputy leader of the REFORM party

User avatar
The Kievan People
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11387
Founded: Jul 02, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby The Kievan People » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:18 am

A front mounted engine is one of the two basic AFV configurations. It is a different set of tradeoffs than a rear mounted engine, but this in no way implies it is more specialized (i.e. niche) or more "Israeli" than a rear mounted engine. France opted for a forward mounted engine on the AMX-13 and Sweden did the same thing with the Strv 103 (and would have done it again on the Strv 200). Collectively the Merkava, AMX-13 and Strv 103 are about as diverse a bunch of tanks as you can find, built for different roles in different weight classes by different nations with different strategic situations, different terrain and different doctrines.

Fundamentally when someone says it is niche they are implying other tank designs are somehow more "general". That is what is misleading. The Merkava is different from, but no farther removed from the ideal form of a tank than, the Leopard 2/T-72 & T-64/M1 Abrams/Challenger 1 &2/Type-99/Type-10 and so and and so forth.

That the hull is less likely to be struck than the turret is an empirical fact in all conflicts and all terrain. For this reason the majority of modern tanks do not have equal protection for the glacis/lower front hull and turret face. Protection reflects threats. The Merkava accepts a relatively lower level of armor protection across the front hull in exchange for other benefits, but this does not reflect a uniquely Israeli distribution of hits. The Merkava is designed to face the same threats as any other tank.

What is uniquely Israeli about the Merkava is that it reflects their relatively early insight that preserving the crew, not avoiding all penetration, was the true figure of merit for tank protection. Again this is not a uniquely Israeli truth. It is a universal fact. Subsequently some other tank designing powers have managed to arrive at the same point by other routes and it is fair to ask if the Merkava would be built the same way if it was designed today (probably not), but again this equally true of all modern tanks.
RIP
Your Nation's Main Battle Tank (No Mechs)
10/06/2009 - 23/02/2013
Gone but not forgotten
DEUS STATUS: ( X ) VULT ( ) NOT VULT
Leopard 2 IRL
Imperializt Russia wrote:kyiv rn irl

Anemos wrote:<Anemos> thx Kyiv D:
<Anemos> you are the eternal onii-san

Europe, a cool region for cool people. Click to find out more.

User avatar
The Greater Luthorian Empire
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1403
Founded: Mar 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Greater Luthorian Empire » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:28 am

The Kievan People wrote:snip

My point was honestly just that the Merk is ugly, just like fat people. Also it just looks like a fat tank.
Imperializt Russia wrote:They told me I could be anything, so I became a razor blade.

User avatar
Fordorsia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20431
Founded: Oct 04, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Fordorsia » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:31 am

Macedonian Grand Empire wrote:Guys what do you think what weight would a 140 mm projectile weight?


It's length and composition would be just a big of factors as caliber.
Pro: Swords
Anti: Guns

San-Silvacian wrote:Forgot to take off my Rhodie shorts when I went to sleep.
Woke up in bitches and enemy combatants.

Crookfur wrote:Speak for yourself, Crookfur infantry enjoy the sheer uber high speed low drag operator nature of their tactical woad

Spreewerke wrote:One of our employees ate a raw kidney and a raw liver and the only powers he gained was the ability to summon a massive hospital bill.

Premislyd wrote:This is probably the best thing somebody has ever spammed.

Puzikas wrote:That joke was so dark it has to smile to be seen at night.

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to Factbooks and National Information

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Femcia, Kenmoria

Advertisement

Remove ads