NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #6

[Velkanika]

What do you want? A copy of the manual or something?

Wait, do you actually have a copy of the flight manual? I've been trying to track down the flight manuals for every Soviet aircraft that was in service between 1955 and 1979 for a project of mine, so if you actually have manuals I do want those.

Just saying, It would be nice if you'd post some useful information. I for one want to know why my information on something is wrong if you're going to call it out as such. Just knowing you think something is incorrect doesn't really help me correct the error.

[Triplebaconation]

Mig-25 flight envelope.

Pfft. I have the whole thing: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/220 ... b_aero.zip (It'll take about 30 minutes to upload.)

There's simply no documented case of a MiG-25 being lost due to engine overspeeding, and the infamous Det 63 flights over Israel by Bezhevets and Krasnogorskiy
didn't result in engine damage according to Russian sources. Stogov had a flameout for a few seconds. An Iraqi MiG-25RB shucked a turbine blade during a bombing mission, but it wasn't speed-relating - this is the only confirmed case of an engine failure during combat.

The most amusing MiG-25 accident was at Pravdinsk.

[The Kievan People]

The Mig-25 can go a bit faster than Mach 2.83, Mach 3 or Mach 3.1 maybe, but wing divergence will occur not far beyond Mach 3. There is also a temperature problem, but it is an airframe problem, not and engine problem. The Mig-25 can only operate for five minutes between 2.65 and Mach 2.83 because the airframe cannot be heated above 290 degrees C. The sophisticated thermal protection system you see on something like the SR-71 is completely absent on the Mig-25. Above Mach 2.83 the airframe would heat up even faster.

Here is something written by a former Mig-25 pilot that was posted on the Secret Projects Forum.

/Ресурс планера от скорости не зависит, если только не пошел гофрами( я вообще-то не инженер) Движкам то-же ничего не было, если не перешли ограничений по температуре.Случаев, когда снимали движки из-за превышения скорости М=2.83 я не знаю (если не было превышения ограничений по Т) Лично я сходил разок за ограмичения, но конкретно скорость истинную не определил,где-то3100,3200(было при наведении) М была 3. У других случаи за м=3 были,но не намного. МИГ-25 был и создан для борьбы в том числе и с SR-71.А в варианте МИГ-25 ПД (с другой станцией БРЛС) это вообще не проблема.Проблема была в другом-В своевременном подъеме истребителя, и в грамотном его наведении , ошибка штурмана наведения стоила невыполнения задания./

T: The airframe fatigue does not depend on speed, unless it caused twisting(???) (I am not an engineer). Nothing would happen to the engines, too, unless temperature limits have not been exceeded. I don't know cases of engine stripping because the speed exceeded М=2.83 (unless temperature limits were exceeded too). I personally went beyond the limits once, but then I had not exceeded particular M3 airspeed (3100-3200kph), where- M was 3. There were other cases for M=3 was exceeded , but not much over it. MiG-25 was built to fight, and that includes SR-71. And in MiG-25PD verion (with another radar) it was not a problem. The problem was in this-in prompt scramble of the fighter, and in the competence of (GCI) intercept guidance, as the mistake of the (GCI) intercept navigator would cause the failure of the mission.

[Alfegos]

Plebs...

Missile defence network. Tiered. Defending a nation with no land borders. Threat includes nuclear shizzle.

What do you recommend, in terms of:
> Numbers of tiers in the defence
> Types of missiles
> Other components (e.g. RADAR and stuff)

Was thinking of following Israel without the Iron Beam/Dome (except at key facilities/forward bases), and instead looking at mounting Arrow on a triad of ships, surface mobile launchers, and aircraft.

Whaddya reckon?

[San-Silvacian]

I'm not sure about Iron Dome.

I mean its cool when shooting down 1-2 122mm rockets, but it would fail against any kind of saturation attack.

[Alfegos]

http://www.funker530.com/iron-dome-inte ... s-at-once/

Maybe not too bad. Depends on if, by saturation, you mean "This is NS, where realism and logistics go out the door, and we fire a million missiles at once".

[Triplebaconation]

What do you mean by "no land borders?"

[Lamoni]

What do you mean by "no land borders?"

I would think that that implies an island, but near some other landmass.

[Rio Grande del Sur]

What do you mean by "no land borders?"

Exactly what it says?

[Das-husland]

What would the result of 1.1 million conscripts armed with SKS rifles with Leopard Tank support charging against an elite force of 350,000 trained soldiers, with Smersh MLRS, Archer artillery arrays, challenger 2 MBTs and Merkeva 4 MBTs, I have air support, with A-10 warthogs and F-35 close support fighters. They have BOC AA, but in limited quantity.

This is in the countryside, essentially southern IL.

[The Kievan People]

What would the result of 1.1 million conscripts armed with SKS rifles with Leopard Tank support charging against an elite force of 350,000 trained soldiers, with Smersh MLRS, Archer artillery arrays, challenger 2 MBTs and Merkeva 4 MBTs, I have air support, with A-10 warthogs and F-35 close support fighters. They have BOC AA, but in limited quantity.

This is in the countryside, essentially southern IL.

It's not just a big mass of 1.1 million men charging forward with tanks?

...Right?

[The Tiger Kingdom]

What would the result of 1.1 million conscripts armed with SKS rifles with Leopard Tank support charging against an elite force of 350,000 trained soldiers, with Smersh MLRS, Archer artillery arrays, challenger 2 MBTs and Merkeva 4 MBTs, I have air support, with A-10 warthogs and F-35 close support fighters. They have BOC AA, but in limited quantity.

This is in the countryside, essentially southern IL.

Oh, some boots would get scuffed. There'd probably be a bit fewer people for tea the next day. There would be lots of loud noises, for sure.

[The New Lowlands]

What would the result of 1.1 million conscripts armed with SKS rifles with Leopard Tank support charging against an elite force of 350,000 trained soldiers, with Smersh MLRS, Archer artillery arrays, challenger 2 MBTs and Merkeva 4 MBTs, I have air support, with A-10 warthogs and F-35 close support fighters. They have BOC AA, but in limited quantity.

This is in the countryside, essentially southern IL.

Conscripts die.

[Triplebaconation]

What do you mean by "no land borders?"

Exactly what it says?

It doesn't say much at all, does it? It's an island somewhere. Where? How far away is the nearest threat?

Obviously a very small nation with lots of potentially hostile land borders probably isn't the best defense model for an island nation.

What would the result of 1.1 million conscripts armed with SKS rifles with Leopard Tank support charging against an elite force of 350,000 trained soldiers, with Smersh MLRS, Archer artillery arrays, challenger 2 MBTs and Merkeva 4 MBTs, I have air support, with A-10 warthogs and F-35 close support fighters. They have BOC AA, but in limited quantity.

This is in the countryside, essentially southern IL.

Jesus melts everybody with an angry glare, because it's obviously the Battle of Armageddon.

[San-Silvacian]

http://www.funker530.com/iron-dome-intercepts-15-qassam-rockets-at-once/

Maybe not too bad. Depends on if, by saturation, you mean "This is NS, where realism and logistics go out the door, and we fire a million missiles at once".

I bet C-RAM could kill a few unguided Grad rockets too. I also didn't know 24 unguided 122mm rockets was the logistics going out the door.

However systems like Iron Dome can beat up all day on Grad rockets, however how would these systems react to guided cruise missiles, flying on the deck, with some of them performing hard turns and maneuvers to avoid being hit by said systems? Sure I could most likely get a 90% kill ration with PAC-3 firing at Grads too, does that mean that PAC-3 is a good system? No it just means I can use a modern piece of technology to beat up on a system being misused.

In a modern conflict by the time you need to intercept a 122mm rocket, you're facing like 24 rockets instead of a puny 10-15.

Another thing I am not a fan of is its lack of portability. Its designed to fit very well into the Israeli's, "Wow we are pretty comfy" here way of fighting, while even C-RAM is mounted to the back of a truck and can be moved.

[The Kievan People]

On a high intensity battlefield Iron Dome would still be useful for shooting down guided weapons. A SAM battery protected by the dome would be a real headscratcher for wild weasels. Or, sticking it near a bridge would ruin the plans of anyone who thinks they can take it down with one Paveway. It's current design isn't very mobile, but this could be easily fixed.

[New Vihenia]

On a high intensity battlefield Iron Dome would still be useful for shooting down guided weapons. A SAM battery protected by the dome would be a real headscratcher for wild weasels. Or, sticking it near a bridge would ruin the plans of anyone who thinks they can take it down with one Paveway. It's current design isn't very mobile, but this could be easily fixed.

Look i have mobile Iron dome :3

[The Kievan People]

Oh you.

[Das-husland]

I'd prefer a serious answer to my question.....My opponent Luremurg decided that conscripts would be the best way to go.

On another point, I'm looking for a good automatic rifle for my militia, Like the AKM, but a bit heavier and less...terroristy.

[Vitaphone Racing]

I'd prefer a serious answer to my question.....My opponent Luremurg decided that conscripts would be the best way to go.

On another point, I'm looking for a good automatic rifle for my militia, Like the AKM, but a bit heavier and less...terroristy.

Research is your friend.

[Imperializt Russia]

So strategy laid out for a war I'm having.

Basically, I focus Mechanized Divisions (Tanks/APCs) on specific points, thus, so I can easily penetrate Defense. Usually, the penetrating divisions have targets (such as villages, big cities require a massive pincer basically). Once sufficiently inside enemy territory, Divisions detach regiments/brigades to turn around and flank enemy positions. Then, the "front line" of sorts (basically the rest of my army) move up and destroy the defense completely. Thus, the Defense is no longer an actual Defense, they're being assaulted, and they're getting flanked. Other than that, it's basically basic mobile warfare stuff.

Disclosures:
1. It's meant to be an extremely fast maneuver
2. We also have a liquid defense, since that's probably the best option with a Mobile army
3. A guide to a well defended area: move around it.
4. I know about tank mines, but usually you don't want to place them directly in front of you to hinder a possible window of attack you have, or put them behind you 'cause y'know, that's kinda stupid
5. One thing about the strategy is that you must always cover your flanks
6. Targets can be logistical stuff, like I dunno, hospitals?
7. This strategy isn't set in stone, it's for countries where I can safely employ this. My enemy has relatively unorganized but very many conscripts, inferior in everything except for numbers (that also means vehicles).
8. Not even covering air strategy.

Any issues I might face with a military who conscripts, has soviet style tanks (like middle east quality), and is overall disorganized but exceptional in numbers?

Traditionally, tanks will be more effective at breaking the line at a specific point, supported by the arms of mechanised formations. Mechanised formations can then follow the tanks through the hole and keep pushing deep into the rear area while additional formations outflank the units either side of the hole.

What would the result of 1.1 million conscripts armed with SKS rifles with Leopard Tank support charging against an elite force of 350,000 trained soldiers, with Smersh MLRS, Archer artillery arrays, challenger 2 MBTs and Merkeva 4 MBTs, I have air support, with A-10 warthogs and F-35 close support fighters. They have BOC AA, but in limited quantity.

This is in the countryside, essentially southern IL.

Due to an unexpected failure in radio and communication systems, your battlefield artillery has apparently not arrived with the rest of your force. Your Smerch artillery commander does not receive any orders to fire and has no idea there is a battle raging seventy kilometres away.
Due to a lack of preparedness, 1 Battalion, Rifles is overwhelmed by an initial assault, and your commander cannot be updated.

Astonishingly, this one small break in the line allows a Regiment-sized force of conscripts to charge directly to your formation headquarters and capture your commander.
Now, with total knowledge of your formation's positions, your enemy's tactically adept commander is able to engage and assault your tank formation positions from the flanks. Broken and confused, the remainder of your force withdraws.

Or something else could happen.

[Questers]

Due to an unexpected failure in radio and communication systems, your battlefield artillery has apparently not arrived with the rest of your force. Your Smerch artillery commander does not receive any orders to fire and has no idea there is a battle raging seventy kilometres away.
Due to a lack of preparedness, 1 Battalion, Rifles is overwhelmed by an initial assault, and your commander cannot be updated.

Astonishingly, this one small break in the line allows a Regiment-sized force of conscripts to charge directly to your formation headquarters and capture your commander.
Now, with total knowledge of your formation's positions, your enemy's tactically adept commander is able to engage and assault your tank formation positions from the flanks. Broken and confused, the remainder of your force withdraws.

Or something else could happen.

Excellent.

[Questers]

The OP poll is up. Goodbye.

[Velkanika]

Mig-25 flight envelope.

Pfft. I have the whole thing: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/220 ... b_aero.zip (It'll take about 30 minutes to upload.)

There's simply no documented case of a MiG-25 being lost due to engine overspeeding, and the infamous Det 63 flights over Israel by Bezhevets and Krasnogorskiy
didn't result in engine damage according to Russian sources. Stogov had a flameout for a few seconds. An Iraqi MiG-25RB shucked a turbine blade during a bombing mission, but it wasn't speed-relating - this is the only confirmed case of an engine failure during combat.

The most amusing MiG-25 accident was at Pravdinsk.

Sweet, thank you for the manual. I'm going to get this thing translated and pull out the parameters I need to figure out how to simulate now. You've just given me enough information to get my project really going.

[Alexandreon]

To what extent is that feasible basis for a military doctrine of 1900-1918 major military power?

1. Defensive attitude is preferred. In the borderlands a chain of strongholds shall slow down or stop enemy’s march, while the army will prepare field fortifications in order to halt the enemy’s attack and blood them out while preparing the counteroffensive.
2. The infantry is intended to entrench and hold the line for as long as possible, while in the rear forces for counterattack are amassed.
3. In case of facing enemy’s heavily protected field fortifications, the additional regiments of the heaviest artillery from the reserves of the GHQ are assigned to the crucial sectors of the front. Heavy artillery bombardment, combined with stormtroopers’ attacks and usage of mortars, LMGs and flamethrowers to fend off the enemy from their lines.
4. the artillery bombardment doesn’t necessarily be overly prolonged, it should rather scatter the crucial points and surprise the enemy, instead of a week-long constant shelling sessions.
5. instead of “fixed” intended points of breaching the enemy’s front, the entire offensive has to be flexible, alike to Brusilov’s offensive in 1916. The operational reserves have to be created in order to strengthen the pressure on the enemy wherever it is necessary.
6. Whenever possible, mobile forces are supposed to bypass the enemy’s defence and wreak havoc in their hinterland. In the early (1900-1914) stages, this role should be performed by the cavalry acting entirely as a mounted infantry (no charges with cold steel, lances and sabres retained for ceremonial purposes, HMGs on tachankas and horse artillery for mobile fire support) in later (1915-onwards), motorized and armored troops (fit for the timeline, so initially mix of ::not::Mark I tanks and ::not::FT-17).
7. Logistics are the shit. Motorization of strategic logistical assets shall be implemented as soon as possible, followed by motorization of tactical assets. Every division, army corps and army has own, heavily built-up supply column, apart from regimental and battalion-level transport columns.