NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #6

[Imperii Magna]

Anybody know a non-character based military RP that isn't crap?

Pretty good so far. We could kind of use a Russia

That's what I was thinking. I mean, it is 2025. I'm mostly basing it off of the under-development SR-72, successor to the blackbird

Blackbird successor? My interest has been peaked.

I have just the Wikipedia article for you
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_SR-72

[Roski]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ELcD6jhYoM

I use this to lure people into traps when in Spec ops

"Tacticool actual, come in"
"We hear you 5 by 5, gimme a sitrep"
"Someone's singing sir"
"Nuke the fukers"

XD

[Korouse]

Assessment of my Blitzkrieg-style strategy anyone?

[Gallia-]

1) To evade SAMs.

2) Actually, you're not. Even Mach 3 reduces engagement envelope significantly that slight deviation can make it tough to successfully intercept.

3) SR-71 seemed alright.

4) Then make tougher wings.~

That's what I was thinking. I mean, it is 2025. I'm mostly basing it off of the under-development SR-72, successor to the blackbird

"SR-72" is no more under development than any other CGI plane you might find on Google images.

Lockheed-Martin just claims to have designs for an engine that might be able to go Mach 6.

[Vancon]

So strategy laid out for a war I'm having.

Basically, I focus Mechanized Divisions (Tanks/APCs) on specific points, thus, so I can easily penetrate Defense. Usually, the penetrating divisions have targets (such as villages, big cities require a massive pincer basically). Once sufficiently inside enemy territory, Divisions detach regiments/brigades to turn around and flank enemy positions. Then, the "front line" of sorts (basically the rest of my army) move up and destroy the defense completely. Thus, the Defense is no longer an actual Defense, they're being assaulted, and they're getting flanked. Other than that, it's basically basic mobile warfare stuff.

Disclosures:
1. It's meant to be an extremely fast maneuver
2. We also have a liquid defense, since that's probably the best option with a Mobile army
3. A guide to a well defended area: move around it.
4. I know about tank mines, but usually you don't want to place them directly in front of you to hinder a possible window of attack you have, or put them behind you 'cause y'know, that's kinda stupid
5. One thing about the strategy is that you must always cover your flanks
6. Targets can be logistical stuff, like I dunno, hospitals?
7. This strategy isn't set in stone, it's for countries where I can safely employ this. My enemy has relatively unorganized but very many conscripts, inferior in everything except for numbers (that also means vehicles).
8. Not even covering air strategy.

Any issues I might face with a military who conscripts, has soviet style tanks (like middle east quality), and is overall disorganized but exceptional in numbers?

As a preface, when nobody responds to you, assume that your idea was good and there is no flaws, or that it's stupid. Give me a minute to figure out which one this is.

[Inyourfaceistan]

I would love to fill the part of Russia/US/Gran Colombia (or Inyursta); but I hate PMT with a vengeance...

2025. It's basically MT; I haven't bothered to update any of my military from its current MT standard.

Also, Russia is already in the process of being Zerg-rushed by China. As an NPC nation, it's not doing very well. Hopefully, having another player in control of Russia will slow the Chinese down a bit.

Yeah, but I noticed DEN is on and he's trying to have exoskeletons and railguns and all that crap I can't stand...

[Padnak]

2025. It's basically MT; I haven't bothered to update any of my military from its current MT standard.

Also, Russia is already in the process of being Zerg-rushed by China. As an NPC nation, it's not doing very well. Hopefully, having another player in control of Russia will slow the Chinese down a bit.

Yeah, but I noticed DEN is on and he's trying to have exoskeletons and railguns and all that crap I can't stand...

Hes trying to

and I'm firmly stamping down on it with the iron boot of reason. Any stupid ideas he gets have to come through this thread, and given that this thread is populated by some of the most jaded people in NS, if he can get it though here then I can't really argue against it

[Korouse]

Yeah, but I noticed DEN is on and he's trying to have exoskeletons and railguns and all that crap I can't stand...

Hes trying to

and I'm firmly stamping down on it with the iron boot of reason. Any stupid ideas he gets have to come through this thread, and given that this thread is populated by some of the most jaded people in NS, if he can get it though here then I can't really argue against it

I remember someone who tried to have mechs, we chewed them out, they made up an excuse of their nation fell into an armageddon type situation where social order broke down and aggression between warring factions was going on all the time, then they said the solution to their resource problem was mechs.

I lol'd so hard.

[The Akasha Colony]

So strategy laid out for a war I'm having.

Basically, I focus Mechanized Divisions (Tanks/APCs) on specific points, thus, so I can easily penetrate Defense. Usually, the penetrating divisions have targets (such as villages, big cities require a massive pincer basically). Once sufficiently inside enemy territory, Divisions detach regiments/brigades to turn around and flank enemy positions. Then, the "front line" of sorts (basically the rest of my army) move up and destroy the defense completely. Thus, the Defense is no longer an actual Defense, they're being assaulted, and they're getting flanked. Other than that, it's basically basic mobile warfare stuff.

Disclosures:
1. It's meant to be an extremely fast maneuver
2. We also have a liquid defense, since that's probably the best option with a Mobile army
3. A guide to a well defended area: move around it.
4. I know about tank mines, but usually you don't want to place them directly in front of you to hinder a possible window of attack you have, or put them behind you 'cause y'know, that's kinda stupid
5. One thing about the strategy is that you must always cover your flanks
6. Targets can be logistical stuff, like I dunno, hospitals?
7. This strategy isn't set in stone, it's for countries where I can safely employ this. My enemy has relatively unorganized but very many conscripts, inferior in everything except for numbers (that also means vehicles).
8. Not even covering air strategy.

Any issues I might face with a military who conscripts, has soviet style tanks (like middle east quality), and is overall disorganized but exceptional in numbers?

His reserves. Nothing else can be said without more information.

A favorable peace deal is all they needed, because they only needed to keep the US away from their East Asian conquests (Hull note is a big reason they attacked), so if they had managed to deal the USN a crippling blow at sea, they probably could have forced some kind of thing keeping the US out.

The US would not have taken a peace deal even if they lost their entire existing battle fleet. Not when their prestige was at stake, not when their allies were threatened, and not while their own holdings were either occupied or threatened, and not when they were already in the war. Conversely, the Japanese would not have accepted the return of a US presence in the Philippines, which was the reason they felt threatened by the United States in the first place (they could not secure their gains in Southeast Asia while the US could potentially cut them off via the Philippines).

The US would not have given the Japanese peace without having a good go at it with their full industrial power, and Japan had no chance of winning against that.

[Vancon]

Hes trying to

and I'm firmly stamping down on it with the iron boot of reason. Any stupid ideas he gets have to come through this thread, and given that this thread is populated by some of the most jaded people in NS, if he can get it though here then I can't really argue against it

I remember someone who tried to have mechs, we chewed them out, they made up an excuse of their nation fell into an armageddon type situation where social order broke down and aggression between warring factions was going on all the time, then they said the solution to their resource problem was mechs.

I lol'd so hard.

I remember a time when somebody had an almost all battleship fleet and ways saying it was the best ever. Then we chewed them out for thinking like that.

Funny that.

[Korouse]

So strategy laid out for a war I'm having.

Basically, I focus Mechanized Divisions (Tanks/APCs) on specific points, thus, so I can easily penetrate Defense. Usually, the penetrating divisions have targets (such as villages, big cities require a massive pincer basically). Once sufficiently inside enemy territory, Divisions detach regiments/brigades to turn around and flank enemy positions. Then, the "front line" of sorts (basically the rest of my army) move up and destroy the defense completely. Thus, the Defense is no longer an actual Defense, they're being assaulted, and they're getting flanked. Other than that, it's basically basic mobile warfare stuff.

Disclosures:
1. It's meant to be an extremely fast maneuver
2. We also have a liquid defense, since that's probably the best option with a Mobile army
3. A guide to a well defended area: move around it.
4. I know about tank mines, but usually you don't want to place them directly in front of you to hinder a possible window of attack you have, or put them behind you 'cause y'know, that's kinda stupid
5. One thing about the strategy is that you must always cover your flanks
6. Targets can be logistical stuff, like I dunno, hospitals?
7. This strategy isn't set in stone, it's for countries where I can safely employ this. My enemy has relatively unorganized but very many conscripts, inferior in everything except for numbers (that also means vehicles).
8. Not even covering air strategy.

Any issues I might face with a military who conscripts, has soviet style tanks (like middle east quality), and is overall disorganized but exceptional in numbers?

His reserves. Nothing else can be said without more information.

A favorable peace deal is all they needed, because they only needed to keep the US away from their East Asian conquests (Hull note is a big reason they attacked), so if they had managed to deal the USN a crippling blow at sea, they probably could have forced some kind of thing keeping the US out.

The US would not have taken a peace deal even if they lost their entire existing battle fleet. Not when their prestige was at stake, not when their allies were threatened, and not while their own holdings were either occupied or threatened, and not when they were already in the war. Conversely, the Japanese would not have accepted the return of a US presence in the Philippines, which was the reason they felt threatened by the United States in the first place (they could not secure their gains in Southeast Asia while the US could potentially cut them off via the Philippines).

The US would not have given the Japanese peace without having a good go at it with their full industrial power, and Japan had no chance of winning against that.

They're disorganized. They wouldn't be able to get a sufficient counterattack going.

[Vancon]

So strategy laid out for a war I'm having.

Basically, I focus Mechanized Divisions (Tanks/APCs) on specific points, thus, so I can easily penetrate Defense. Usually, the penetrating divisions have targets (such as villages, big cities require a massive pincer basically). Once sufficiently inside enemy territory, Divisions detach regiments/brigades to turn around and flank enemy positions. Then, the "front line" of sorts (basically the rest of my army) move up and destroy the defense completely. Thus, the Defense is no longer an actual Defense, they're being assaulted, and they're getting flanked. Other than that, it's basically basic mobile warfare stuff.

Disclosures:
1. It's meant to be an extremely fast maneuver
2. We also have a liquid defense, since that's probably the best option with a Mobile army
3. A guide to a well defended area: move around it.
4. I know about tank mines, but usually you don't want to place them directly in front of you to hinder a possible window of attack you have, or put them behind you 'cause y'know, that's kinda stupid
5. One thing about the strategy is that you must always cover your flanks
6. Targets can be logistical stuff, like I dunno, hospitals?
7. This strategy isn't set in stone, it's for countries where I can safely employ this. My enemy has relatively unorganized but very many conscripts, inferior in everything except for numbers (that also means vehicles).
8. Not even covering air strategy.

Any issues I might face with a military who conscripts, has soviet style tanks (like middle east quality), and is overall disorganized but exceptional in numbers?

Problem 1: You're spearheading through into enemy territory, but you can get cut off and flanked before you even dismount.
Problem 2: Urban Warfare is hell. Read this.

[United Marxist Nations]

So strategy laid out for a war I'm having.

Basically, I focus Mechanized Divisions (Tanks/APCs) on specific points, thus, so I can easily penetrate Defense. Usually, the penetrating divisions have targets (such as villages, big cities require a massive pincer basically). Once sufficiently inside enemy territory, Divisions detach regiments/brigades to turn around and flank enemy positions. Then, the "front line" of sorts (basically the rest of my army) move up and destroy the defense completely. Thus, the Defense is no longer an actual Defense, they're being assaulted, and they're getting flanked. Other than that, it's basically basic mobile warfare stuff.

Disclosures:
1. It's meant to be an extremely fast maneuver
2. We also have a liquid defense, since that's probably the best option with a Mobile army
3. A guide to a well defended area: move around it.
4. I know about tank mines, but usually you don't want to place them directly in front of you to hinder a possible window of attack you have, or put them behind you 'cause y'know, that's kinda stupid
5. One thing about the strategy is that you must always cover your flanks
6. Targets can be logistical stuff, like I dunno, hospitals?
7. This strategy isn't set in stone, it's for countries where I can safely employ this. My enemy has relatively unorganized but very many conscripts, inferior in everything except for numbers (that also means vehicles).
8. Not even covering air strategy.

Any issues I might face with a military who conscripts, has soviet style tanks (like middle east quality), and is overall disorganized but exceptional in numbers?

His reserves. Nothing else can be said without more information.

A favorable peace deal is all they needed, because they only needed to keep the US away from their East Asian conquests (Hull note is a big reason they attacked), so if they had managed to deal the USN a crippling blow at sea, they probably could have forced some kind of thing keeping the US out.

The US would not have taken a peace deal even if they lost their entire existing battle fleet. Not when their prestige was at stake, not when their allies were threatened, and not while their own holdings were either occupied or threatened, and not when they were already in the war. Conversely, the Japanese would not have accepted the return of a US presence in the Philippines, which was the reason they felt threatened by the United States in the first place (they could not secure their gains in Southeast Asia while the US could potentially cut them off via the Philippines).

The US would not have given the Japanese peace without having a good go at it with their full industrial power, and Japan had no chance of winning against that.

So, basically Japan's only real hope was to just quit while they were ahead?

[Korouse]

I remember someone who tried to have mechs, we chewed them out, they made up an excuse of their nation fell into an armageddon type situation where social order broke down and aggression between warring factions was going on all the time, then they said the solution to their resource problem was mechs.

I lol'd so hard.

I remember a time when somebody had an almost all battleship fleet and ways saying it was the best ever. Then we chewed them out for thinking like that.

Funny that.

I never said that

funny that, Padnak turns out not to be 100% true sometimes.

[Roski]

His reserves. Nothing else can be said without more information.



The US would not have taken a peace deal even if they lost their entire existing battle fleet. Not when their prestige was at stake, not when their allies were threatened, and not while their own holdings were either occupied or threatened, and not when they were already in the war. Conversely, the Japanese would not have accepted the return of a US presence in the Philippines, which was the reason they felt threatened by the United States in the first place (they could not secure their gains in Southeast Asia while the US could potentially cut them off via the Philippines).

The US would not have given the Japanese peace without having a good go at it with their full industrial power, and Japan had no chance of winning against that.

So, basically Japan's only real hope was to just quit while they were ahead?

Japan's main hope was to never attack Pearl Harbour or Alaska.

[United Marxist Nations]

So, basically Japan's only real hope was to just quit while they were ahead?

Japan's main hope was to never attack Pearl Harbour or Alaska.

My hypothetical is predicated on them not doing that.

Also, that would be quitting while they were ahead.

[Korouse]

So strategy laid out for a war I'm having.

Basically, I focus Mechanized Divisions (Tanks/APCs) on specific points, thus, so I can easily penetrate Defense. Usually, the penetrating divisions have targets (such as villages, big cities require a massive pincer basically). Once sufficiently inside enemy territory, Divisions detach regiments/brigades to turn around and flank enemy positions. Then, the "front line" of sorts (basically the rest of my army) move up and destroy the defense completely. Thus, the Defense is no longer an actual Defense, they're being assaulted, and they're getting flanked. Other than that, it's basically basic mobile warfare stuff.

Disclosures:
1. It's meant to be an extremely fast maneuver
2. We also have a liquid defense, since that's probably the best option with a Mobile army
3. A guide to a well defended area: move around it.
4. I know about tank mines, but usually you don't want to place them directly in front of you to hinder a possible window of attack you have, or put them behind you 'cause y'know, that's kinda stupid
5. One thing about the strategy is that you must always cover your flanks
6. Targets can be logistical stuff, like I dunno, hospitals?
7. This strategy isn't set in stone, it's for countries where I can safely employ this. My enemy has relatively unorganized but very many conscripts, inferior in everything except for numbers (that also means vehicles).
8. Not even covering air strategy.

Any issues I might face with a military who conscripts, has soviet style tanks (like middle east quality), and is overall disorganized but exceptional in numbers?

Problem 1: You're spearheading through into enemy territory, but you can get cut off and flanked before you even dismount.
Problem 2: Urban Warfare is hell. Read this.

Problem 1: See 5, I have stuff against that
Problem 2: Reading it.

[The Akasha Colony]

They're disorganized. They wouldn't be able to get a sufficient counterattack going.

Strictly speaking, they don't need to. If a few of his subordinate commanders have even a bit of initiative and start harassing your force with whatever is at their disposal, you can lose cohesion pretty quickly.

So, basically Japan's only real hope was to just quit while they were ahead?

If by "quit while they were ahead" you mean "not start a war with the United States at all," then yes.

[Roski]

Japan's main hope was to never attack Pearl Harbour or Alaska.

My hypothetical is predicated on them not doing that.

Also, that would be quitting while they were ahead.

Not necessarily. They had plenty of land in the Pacific to take, and if lucky enough to avoid America's wrath, could likely begin an invasion of South America.

They didn't have to stop. They just had to be more careful.

Now, had the actual plan at Pearl Harbour Succeeded, which would have been more luck than skill, the Japanese would have likely taken Hawaii before the US Pacific Fleet was powerful enough to respond.

[United Marxist Nations]

They're disorganized. They wouldn't be able to get a sufficient counterattack going.

Strictly speaking, they don't need to. If a few of his subordinate commanders have even a bit of initiative and start harassing your force with whatever is at their disposal, you can lose cohesion pretty quickly.

So, basically Japan's only real hope was to just quit while they were ahead?

If by "quit while they were ahead" you mean "not start a war with the United States at all," then yes.

That is what I mean by "quit while they were ahead". Though, weren't they already at war with the UK?

[Roski]

Strictly speaking, they don't need to. If a few of his subordinate commanders have even a bit of initiative and start harassing your force with whatever is at their disposal, you can lose cohesion pretty quickly.



If by "quit while they were ahead" you mean "not start a war with the United States at all," then yes.

That is what I mean by "quit while they were ahead". Though, weren't they already at war with the UK?

Royal Navy was a tad pre-occupied.

[The Greater Luthorian Empire]

2. We also have a liquid defense, since that's probably the best option with a Mobile army

I think you mean fluid defence.

3. A guide to a well defended area: move around it.

Yeah, that is so basic it isn't even worth mentioning. A better thing to mention is how you break through defended areas if you cannot move around them?

5. One thing about the strategy is that you must always cover your flanks

Once again this isn't even doctrine, this is some Sun Tzu "point out the obvious and disguise it as wisdom" bullshit.

6. Targets can be logistical stuff, like I dunno, hospitals?

I don't understand why people always suggest shooting up hospitals and stupid shit. Even ignoring the fact that it does nothing useful (yep, that soldier with no legs that you finished off by bombing his hospital was totally slowing down your advance and wasn't consuming large manpower and resources relative to his useful output in the war effort). Plus it simply pisses off the population and makes the nation less likely to compromise.

Honestly if someone started bombed one of my hospitals I would take that as a cue that he has no limits on what to engage and target anything freely. Of course the blame would fall on enemy political leaders for allowing the initial strikes that result in us suspending engagement restrictions so every politician we capture would be tried and when found guilty shot for crimes against humanity.

Logistics is shit like transport trucks, or targeting infrastructure like roads, bridges, tunnels, or various supply and storage stations.

[The Akasha Colony]

Not necessarily. They had plenty of land in the Pacific to take, and if lucky enough to avoid America's wrath, could likely begin an invasion of South America.

They didn't have to stop. They just had to be more careful.

There is absolutely no way the Japanese could have seriously contemplated an invasion of South America, nor any chance the United States would have let them if they could. It would have been practically the same as attacking Pearl Harbor. The US had left Japan largely alone because the American people weren't interested in getting involved in a war in Asia. If the Japanese started a war in South America, they'd be in America's backyard, and that wouldn't apply anymore. Monroe Doctrine and all. They'd be a direct threat to the Panama Canal.

Now, had the actual plan at Pearl Harbour Succeeded, which would have been more luck than skill, the Japanese would have likely taken Hawaii before the US Pacific Fleet was powerful enough to respond.

No, the Japanese did not have the strength to take Hawaii.

That is what I mean by "quit while they were ahead". Though, weren't they already at war with the UK?

And the Dutch and the Australians. Either way, the US would have likely supplied the Commonwealth with equipment, as they were already supplying the Chinese.

[United Marxist Nations]

Not necessarily. They had plenty of land in the Pacific to take, and if lucky enough to avoid America's wrath, could likely begin an invasion of South America.

They didn't have to stop. They just had to be more careful.

There is absolutely no way the Japanese could have seriously contemplated an invasion of South America, nor any chance the United States would have let them if they could. It would have been practically the same as attacking Pearl Harbor. The US had left Japan largely alone because the American people weren't interested in getting involved in a war in Asia. If the Japanese started a war in South America, they'd be in America's backyard, and that wouldn't apply anymore. Monroe Doctrine and all. They'd be a direct threat to the Panama Canal.

Now, had the actual plan at Pearl Harbour Succeeded, which would have been more luck than skill, the Japanese would have likely taken Hawaii before the US Pacific Fleet was powerful enough to respond.

No, the Japanese did not have the strength to take Hawaii.

That is what I mean by "quit while they were ahead". Though, weren't they already at war with the UK?

And the Dutch and the Australians. Either way, the US would have likely supplied the Commonwealth with equipment, as they were already supplying the Chinese.

Could the US have supplied enough to the Commonwealth that it would have been a major problem? And could Japan have gotten a peace deal before Britain really had been able to get enough power to retaliate?

[Roski]

Not necessarily. They had plenty of land in the Pacific to take, and if lucky enough to avoid America's wrath, could likely begin an invasion of South America.

They didn't have to stop. They just had to be more careful.

There is absolutely no way the Japanese could have seriously contemplated an invasion of South America, nor any chance the United States would have let them if they could. It would have been practically the same as attacking Pearl Harbor. The US had left Japan largely alone because the American people weren't interested in getting involved in a war in Asia. If the Japanese started a war in South America, they'd be in America's backyard, and that wouldn't apply anymore. Monroe Doctrine and all. They'd be a direct threat to the Panama Canal.

Now, had the actual plan at Pearl Harbour Succeeded, which would have been more luck than skill, the Japanese would have likely taken Hawaii before the US Pacific Fleet was powerful enough to respond.

No, the Japanese did not have the strength to take Hawaii.

That is what I mean by "quit while they were ahead". Though, weren't they already at war with the UK?

And the Dutch and the Australians. Either way, the US would have likely supplied the Commonwealth with equipment, as they were already supplying the Chinese.

The Japanese launched attacks in California. K.

And had they taken out the Carriers, like intended, the US Fleet would have been powerless for a while.

Japan wasn't a pushover. THey were very strong. It just so happened the Americans pulled a stroke of Luck at Midway, and got their asses handed to them.