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by Yukonastan » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:02 am

by Inyourfaceistan » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:04 am
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm considering reviving my old large-unit platoon structure as a model for the paramilitaries.
Does anyone see any real issues with this? Unlike the Army, paramilitaries are pretty much light-infantry and many will not be mechanised, so I don't see much reason sticking to the conventional Army model.

by Questers » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:06 am
You could do the maths yourself and decide...Yukonastan wrote:This novel which I was reading, Marko Kloos' "Lines of Departure", has one chapter where they weaponize an old starship by filling it with water and accelerating it towards the target.
They accelerate it to about 10% of the speed of light by the time it hits the target, and the book quotes it as equivalent to a 200 gigaton explosion.
How (im)plausible is this?

by Immoren » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:15 am

discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there

by Imperializt Russia » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:18 am
Inyourfaceistan wrote:Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm considering reviving my old large-unit platoon structure as a model for the paramilitaries.
Does anyone see any real issues with this? Unlike the Army, paramilitaries are pretty much light-infantry and many will not be mechanised, so I don't see much reason sticking to the conventional Army model.
Are these National Guard-style sub-Army paramilitaries, or AUC/UDA-style vigilante paramilitaries?
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

by Yukonastan » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:29 am

by Immoren » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:33 am
Yukonastan wrote:
I did some maths.
Assuming ten percent of the speed of light, so just over 29.979 kilometres per second, and an impact of 200 GT equivalent on target, or in other words, 836800 exajoules of kinetic energy, a weaponized starship would have to have a tonnage of just over 1862131 metric tons.
Now, I'm not the sci-fi whiz around here, but is that a valid number to expect for an old starfreighter filled to the brim (all transport modules as well as every single void in the ship) with water?
That's regarding the Frontlines 200GT impact on the Lanky ship.
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there

by Yukonastan » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:37 am

by The Akasha Colony » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:42 am
Yukonastan wrote:
I did some maths.
Assuming ten percent of the speed of light, so just over 29.979 kilometres per second, and an impact of 200 GT equivalent on target, or in other words, 836800 exajoules of kinetic energy, a weaponized starship would have to have a tonnage of just over 1862131 metric tons.
Now, I'm not the sci-fi whiz around here, but is that a valid number to expect for an old starfreighter filled to the brim (all transport modules as well as every single void in the ship) with water?
That's regarding the Frontlines 200GT impact on the Lanky ship.
Yukonastan wrote:While on your comic, you'll get 1.174 798 845 24 GJ of impact energy of one of those ten ton ships moving to its target at ten miles per second.
Also, screw relativity. I'm just bashing numbers together here. I'm not interested in perfect accuracy and precision, I just want a sort-of-roughish estimate.
However, how much would my tonnage change if I went relativistic in my earlier maths?

by Immoren » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:46 am
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there

by Yukonastan » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:50 am
Immoren wrote:http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=relativistic+kinetic+energy&a=*C.relativistic+kinetic+energy-_*Formula.dflt-&a=*FS-_**KineticEnergyRelativistic.m-.*KineticEnergyRelativistic.K-.*KineticEnergyRelativistic.v--&f3=8.36800+%C3%97+10^20+joules&f=KineticEnergyRelativistic.K_8.36800+%C3%97+10^20+joules&f4=0.1+c&f=KineticEnergyRelativistic.v\u005f0.1+c

by Purpelia » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:50 am
The Akasha Colony wrote:There is no "valid number" in regards to the size or mass of any FT starship. It's whatever the author wants it to be.

by Yukonastan » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:51 am
Purpelia wrote:The Akasha Colony wrote:There is no "valid number" in regards to the size or mass of any FT starship. It's whatever the author wants it to be.
Well actually there is going to be such a thing as a "valid" size for spaceships. Validity in this case is simply going to be how well the ship in question matches up to its contemporaries from the same setting. It's just that we here really can't comment on that without knowing the entire piece.

by The Akasha Colony » Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:00 am
Purpelia wrote:The Akasha Colony wrote:There is no "valid number" in regards to the size or mass of any FT starship. It's whatever the author wants it to be.
Well actually there is going to be such a thing as a "valid" size for spaceships. Validity in this case is simply going to be how well the ship in question matches up to its contemporaries from the same setting. It's just that we here really can't comment on that without knowing the entire piece.

by Immoren » Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:02 am
Yukonastan wrote:Immoren wrote:http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=relativistic+kinetic+energy&a=*C.relativistic+kinetic+energy-_*Formula.dflt-&a=*FS-_**KineticEnergyRelativistic.m-.*KineticEnergyRelativistic.K-.*KineticEnergyRelativistic.v--&f3=8.36800+%C3%97+10^20+joules&f=KineticEnergyRelativistic.K_8.36800+%C3%97+10^20+joules&f4=0.1+c&f=KineticEnergyRelativistic.v\u005f0.1+c
836800 exajoules, remember. Gives me a tonnage of 1.848e6 tons.
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there

by Imperializt Russia » Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:20 am
Yukonastan wrote:
I did some maths.
Assuming ten percent of the speed of light, so just over 29.979 kilometres per second, and an impact of 200 GT equivalent on target, or in other words, 836800 exajoules of kinetic energy, a weaponized starship would have to have a tonnage of just over 1862131 metric tons.
Now, I'm not the sci-fi whiz around here, but is that a valid number to expect for an old starfreighter filled to the brim (all transport modules as well as every single void in the ship) with water?
That's regarding the Frontlines 200GT impact on the Lanky ship.
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

by Purpelia » Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:24 am
The Akasha Colony wrote:Hardly, especially if the author decides he's going to have more than one species. Even IRL ships vary enormously in size, one can only presume this would only be even more true in space.

by Imperializt Russia » Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:25 am
Purpelia wrote:The Akasha Colony wrote:Hardly, especially if the author decides he's going to have more than one species. Even IRL ships vary enormously in size, one can only presume this would only be even more true in space.
Regardless. You are always going to be able to tell if "in universe" the designer was an idiot. As long as the laws that regulate the universe are known to you, and some times even without them.
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

by The Nuclear Fist » Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:08 pm
And you touch the distant beaches with tales of brave Ulysses. . .Farnhamia wrote:You're getting a little too fond of the jerkoff motions.

by Padnak » Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:13 pm
Padnak wrote:
How are anti sea mine operations conducted and what would be the easiest way of getting rid of a hastily deployed minefield with a force comprised mainly of landing ships and an escort of destroyers, frigates and gunboats? Air supremacy has been achieved if that helps-
Inquilabstan wrote:It is official now. Padnak is really Cobra Commander.
Bezombia wrote:It was about this time that Padnak slowly realized that the thread he thought was about gaming was, in fact, an eight story tall crustacean from the protozoic era.
Husseinarti wrote:Powered Borscht.
Because cosmonauts should never think that even in the depths of space they are free from the Soviet Union.
The Kievan People wrote:As usual, this is Padnak's fault, but we need to move on.
Immoren wrote:Again we've sexual tension that can be cut with a bowie.

by Alexandreon » Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:25 pm
Padnak wrote:Padnak wrote:
How are anti sea mine operations conducted and what would be the easiest way of getting rid of a hastily deployed minefield with a force comprised mainly of landing ships and an escort of destroyers, frigates and gunboats? Air supremacy has been achieved if that helps-
Because it was forgotten, reheat

by The Akasha Colony » Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:28 pm
Imperializt Russia wrote:Purpelia wrote:Regardless. You are always going to be able to tell if "in universe" the designer was an idiot. As long as the laws that regulate the universe are known to you, and some times even without them.
Nylund's UNSC Frigates constructed of nothing but air spring to mind.
Padnak wrote:Padnak wrote:
How are anti sea mine operations conducted and what would be the easiest way of getting rid of a hastily deployed minefield with a force comprised mainly of landing ships and an escort of destroyers, frigates and gunboats? Air supremacy has been achieved if that helps-
Because it was forgotten, reheat

by Imperializt Russia » Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:38 pm
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

by Purpelia » Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:40 pm
The Akasha Colony wrote:Halo in general wanking to titanium as a magical wonder material comes to mind.

by Primordial Luxa » Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:44 pm
Gallia- wrote:Primordial Luxa wrote:Please critique thanks in advance• Political goals
o It is the primary goal of the Luxan government to protect its citizens in any way possible without infringing upon their freedoms. This means both defeating threats to national security within Luxan and abroad. The Luxa government maintains the right to attack any foreign organizations which pose a clear and active threat to the Luxan people and which cannot be dealt with politically.
o However it is not the Luxan government’s role to protect the citizens of nations that aren’t part of the Empire and the empire will not waste resources on protecting people that aren’t part of the Empire.
o The Luxan government believes that expanding the Empire and increasing the numbering of willing nations that participate in it is mutually beneficial and promotes economic, culture and political strength. Because of this the Luxan government offers struggling nation the option to join the Empire which may but Luxa in a position to defend nation in the middle of wars.
• War Demographic
o Luxa
Luxa is among the world's most technologically advanced and best-supplied militaries, as befits Luxa’s overall economic prosperity and significant military industry.
A major disadvantage the Luxan military will usually suffer from is lack of man power. This is because the vast amount of money put in the Military is spent on equipment and thus in order to pay soldiers an incredibly competitive wage the military has to limit the number of personnel they hire. However Luxa does pay soldier enough to make the job a very well desired one and this combined with the large amount of money that is spent on training means that Luxa’s soldiers are very competent and morally strong.
The Luxan army rarely fights alone and will typically fight alongside the militaries of other nations who share similar interested in a scenario or other members of the Empire who are bound to do so. This is done mainly to show international support for Luxa’s goals but also to lessen the burden on Luxan troops and to make up for the Luxan armies small size. Because of this communication is essential and must be maintained. Typical strategies include using allied forces to attack second and third tier targets, having allies attack as a second wave, as well as having allies protect supply resources or previously conquered territory.
• Defenses elements
o Much of Luxa defense relies on stopping any attempted landing party. This is done through the use of powerful Coastal Defense fleets and land based air bases which will attempt to sink enemy fleets or work with friendly navies to surround and destroy potential attackers. Luxa also has a system of coastal batteries and OTH radars that help with targeting and destroying potential enemy fleets. While enemies may attempt an air assault the distance between Luxa and any of its potential enemies is so far that this is impractical and such a deployment could be easily dealt with by our Air force and air defense systems.
o If any enemy forces are able to land on either coast the Luxan military forces located there will be in charge of evacuating all civilian personnel to central Luxa. From their Luxa will attempt to use its traditional doctrine to destroy enemy logistics, moral and command infrastructure in order to force surrender from enemy troops and disorganize them for destruction.
o If further forces are deployed against Luxa Alchemic Weapons will be deployed against newly arriving force enmass to destroy forces. In addition Alchemic Weapons may be used at any point throughout a war on Luxan soil as much of Luxa is already so blighted that chemical and radiation poisoning wouldn’t change much.
• Strategic
o The Luxan military subscribes to a very violent style of Maneuver Warfare where the destruction of certain enemy targets, (namely command and control centers, logistical bases, and fire support assets) isolating enemy forces and exploiting movement of enemy weaknesses. This strategy will consist of destroying the logistical and command elements of enemy strongpoints to cause the collapse of these strongpoints even where the physical damage is minimal. Infiltration tactics by conventional or special operations forces may be used extensively to cause chaos and confusion behind enemy lines.
• Tactical
o Luxa maintains a very strong cyber warfare wing during a military operation will be in charge of weakening enemy communications, intercepting private enemy information and destroying important enemy data and electronic systems. Cyber-attacks will occur sporadically through a military campaign and will be large theater or region spanning attacks. It is during these attacks that Luxa will make its more important military attacks during the beginning of the war. However as the war goes on Luxa may abandon this strategy to confuse their enemies and not every cyber-attack will be pair with a physical attack to further create tension.
o Luxan forces will seek to gain information about the strength, organization and methodology of their enemies military by conducting probing attacks. These attacks are small attacks typically done by fast moving army elements and close air support units to soften up enemy defenses with heavier support units ready to support should the probing units succeeding in causing major damage. This strategy allows Luxans to soften up enemy positions and evaluate how much force will be needed to capture take or destroy various assets.
o In addition to attacking enemies in order to gain information about their defense structure the Luxan Military will engage in a type of harrowing attack designed to make the enemy feel insecure about their current force organization. The point of this is force them to reorganize their defense or move forces away from certain area’s or assets. Luxans will then use this change to make effective attacks at now weakly defended elements.
o In mission-type tactics, the military commander gives subordinate leaders a clearly defined goal (the mission), the forces needed to accomplish that goal and a time frame within which the goal must be reached. The subordinate leaders then implement the order independently. The subordinate leader is given, to a large extent, the planning initiative and a freedom in execution which allows a high-degree of flexibility at the Operational and Tactical levels of command. Mission-type Orders free the higher leadership from tactical details. For the success of the mission-type tactics it is especially important that the subordinate leaders understand the intent of the orders and are given proper guidance and that they are trained so they can act independently. The success of the doctrine rests upon the recipient of orders understanding the intent of the issuer and acting to achieve the goal even if their actions violate other guidance or orders they have received. Clearly, taking the risks of violating other previously expressed limitations as a routine step to achieving a mission is a behavior most easily sustained in a particular type of innovative culture. That culture is today often associated with elite units and not a whole army.
• Operational
o The first part of any major Luxan operation will be to use reconnaissance to determine the threat level of the target and to determine the elements that pose the highest threat to Luxan assets and the mission’s success. This is traditionally found out by probing units, scout platoons, or information services. Once determined missile, artillery or rapid attack units will target these dangerous enemy assets while a variety of other softening attacking are conducting with artillery or missiles.
o Once these primary threats and important logistic elements have been eliminated larger Luxan formation will move in and a mass destruction effort will begin. This will normally consist of mass bombing, missile strikes and close support armored units such as attack VTOL’s, MBT’s, and heavy weapon teams. Once the enemies fighting ability has been sufficiently weakened mobilized Luxan infantry and close support armored units will directly engage the enemy at close range to ensure total destruction or final surrender.
• Non war application
o In addition to defending Luxans against active threats the Luxan military also provides humanitarian efforts to members of the Empire. In this situation it will be the role of the Luxan military to extract civilian personnel and to isolate to the best of their ability any major threats. The Luxan military isn’t designed to counteract naturally and manmade disasters merely to separate the victims form the threat.
• Luxan Nuclear Doctrine
o Luxa will always strive to avoid nuclear war whenever possible and will never engage in a first strike unless our second strike capabilities are threated or destroyed, or if a large scale invasion of the empire is actively underway.
o Luxa will declare a first strike if
Luxan Nuclear armed submarines, Luxan Strategic Bombers or Luxan ICBM’s are attacked without provocation
Luxan missile detection systems such as PAVE paws or radar satellites are attacked.
5 or more divisions of hostile enemy soldiers are within Luxan borders and conducting war efforts.
4 or more naval groups are engaging Luxan coastal defense or approaching Luxan territory in a military manner.
o Luxa will declare a second strike if
A Nuclear weapon of 25 Kilotons or greater is aimed at Luxan civilian targets
A Nuclear weapon of 50 Kilotons or greater is aimed at Luxan territory
A Nuclear weapon of 100 Kilotons or greater is aimed at Luxan military targets
Do it over.
Questers wrote:Primordial Luxa wrote:Please critique thanks in advance• Political goals
o It is the primary goal of the Luxan government to protect its citizens in any way possible without infringing upon their freedoms. This means both defeating threats to national security within Luxan and abroad. The Luxa government maintains the right to attack any foreign organizations which pose a clear and active threat to the Luxan people and which cannot be dealt with politically.
o However it is not the Luxan government’s role to protect the citizens of nations that aren’t part of the Empire and the empire will not waste resources on protecting people that aren’t part of the Empire.
o The Luxan government believes that expanding the Empire and increasing the numbering of willing nations that participate in it is mutually beneficial and promotes economic, culture and political strength. Because of this the Luxan government offers struggling nation the option to join the Empire which may but Luxa in a position to defend nation in the middle of wars.
• War Demographic
o Luxa
Luxa is among the world's most technologically advanced and best-supplied militaries, as befits Luxa’s overall economic prosperity and significant military industry.
A major disadvantage the Luxan military will usually suffer from is lack of man power. This is because the vast amount of money put in the Military is spent on equipment and thus in order to pay soldiers an incredibly competitive wage the military has to limit the number of personnel they hire. However Luxa does pay soldier enough to make the job a very well desired one and this combined with the large amount of money that is spent on training means that Luxa’s soldiers are very competent and morally strong.
The Luxan army rarely fights alone and will typically fight alongside the militaries of other nations who share similar interested in a scenario or other members of the Empire who are bound to do so. This is done mainly to show international support for Luxa’s goals but also to lessen the burden on Luxan troops and to make up for the Luxan armies small size. Because of this communication is essential and must be maintained. Typical strategies include using allied forces to attack second and third tier targets, having allies attack as a second wave, as well as having allies protect supply resources or previously conquered territory.
• Defenses elements
o Much of Luxa defense relies on stopping any attempted landing party. This is done through the use of powerful Coastal Defense fleets and land based air bases which will attempt to sink enemy fleets or work with friendly navies to surround and destroy potential attackers. Luxa also has a system of coastal batteries and OTH radars that help with targeting and destroying potential enemy fleets. While enemies may attempt an air assault the distance between Luxa and any of its potential enemies is so far that this is impractical and such a deployment could be easily dealt with by our Air force and air defense systems.
o If any enemy forces are able to land on either coast the Luxan military forces located there will be in charge of evacuating all civilian personnel to central Luxa. From their Luxa will attempt to use its traditional doctrine to destroy enemy logistics, moral and command infrastructure in order to force surrender from enemy troops and disorganize them for destruction.
o If further forces are deployed against Luxa Alchemic Weapons will be deployed against newly arriving force enmass to destroy forces. In addition Alchemic Weapons may be used at any point throughout a war on Luxan soil as much of Luxa is already so blighted that chemical and radiation poisoning wouldn’t change much.
• Strategic
o The Luxan military subscribes to a very violent style of Maneuver Warfare where the destruction of certain enemy targets, (namely command and control centers, logistical bases, and fire support assets) isolating enemy forces and exploiting movement of enemy weaknesses. This strategy will consist of destroying the logistical and command elements of enemy strongpoints to cause the collapse of these strongpoints even where the physical damage is minimal. Infiltration tactics by conventional or special operations forces may be used extensively to cause chaos and confusion behind enemy lines.
• Tactical
o Luxa maintains a very strong cyber warfare wing during a military operation will be in charge of weakening enemy communications, intercepting private enemy information and destroying important enemy data and electronic systems. Cyber-attacks will occur sporadically through a military campaign and will be large theater or region spanning attacks. It is during these attacks that Luxa will make its more important military attacks during the beginning of the war. However as the war goes on Luxa may abandon this strategy to confuse their enemies and not every cyber-attack will be pair with a physical attack to further create tension.
o Luxan forces will seek to gain information about the strength, organization and methodology of their enemies military by conducting probing attacks. These attacks are small attacks typically done by fast moving army elements and close air support units to soften up enemy defenses with heavier support units ready to support should the probing units succeeding in causing major damage. This strategy allows Luxans to soften up enemy positions and evaluate how much force will be needed to capture take or destroy various assets.
o In addition to attacking enemies in order to gain information about their defense structure the Luxan Military will engage in a type of harrowing attack designed to make the enemy feel insecure about their current force organization. The point of this is force them to reorganize their defense or move forces away from certain area’s or assets. Luxans will then use this change to make effective attacks at now weakly defended elements.
o In mission-type tactics, the military commander gives subordinate leaders a clearly defined goal (the mission), the forces needed to accomplish that goal and a time frame within which the goal must be reached. The subordinate leaders then implement the order independently. The subordinate leader is given, to a large extent, the planning initiative and a freedom in execution which allows a high-degree of flexibility at the Operational and Tactical levels of command. Mission-type Orders free the higher leadership from tactical details. For the success of the mission-type tactics it is especially important that the subordinate leaders understand the intent of the orders and are given proper guidance and that they are trained so they can act independently. The success of the doctrine rests upon the recipient of orders understanding the intent of the issuer and acting to achieve the goal even if their actions violate other guidance or orders they have received. Clearly, taking the risks of violating other previously expressed limitations as a routine step to achieving a mission is a behavior most easily sustained in a particular type of innovative culture. That culture is today often associated with elite units and not a whole army.
• Operational
o The first part of any major Luxan operation will be to use reconnaissance to determine the threat level of the target and to determine the elements that pose the highest threat to Luxan assets and the mission’s success. This is traditionally found out by probing units, scout platoons, or information services. Once determined missile, artillery or rapid attack units will target these dangerous enemy assets while a variety of other softening attacking are conducting with artillery or missiles.
o Once these primary threats and important logistic elements have been eliminated larger Luxan formation will move in and a mass destruction effort will begin. This will normally consist of mass bombing, missile strikes and close support armored units such as attack VTOL’s, MBT’s, and heavy weapon teams. Once the enemies fighting ability has been sufficiently weakened mobilized Luxan infantry and close support armored units will directly engage the enemy at close range to ensure total destruction or final surrender.
• Non war application
o In addition to defending Luxans against active threats the Luxan military also provides humanitarian efforts to members of the Empire. In this situation it will be the role of the Luxan military to extract civilian personnel and to isolate to the best of their ability any major threats. The Luxan military isn’t designed to counteract naturally and manmade disasters merely to separate the victims form the threat.
• Luxan Nuclear Doctrine
o Luxa will always strive to avoid nuclear war whenever possible and will never engage in a first strike unless our second strike capabilities are threated or destroyed, or if a large scale invasion of the empire is actively underway.
o Luxa will declare a first strike if
Luxan Nuclear armed submarines, Luxan Strategic Bombers or Luxan ICBM’s are attacked without provocation
Luxan missile detection systems such as PAVE paws or radar satellites are attacked.
5 or more divisions of hostile enemy soldiers are within Luxan borders and conducting war efforts.
4 or more naval groups are engaging Luxan coastal defense or approaching Luxan territory in a military manner.
o Luxa will declare a second strike if
A Nuclear weapon of 25 Kilotons or greater is aimed at Luxan civilian targets
A Nuclear weapon of 50 Kilotons or greater is aimed at Luxan territory
A Nuclear weapon of 100 Kilotons or greater is aimed at Luxan military targets
This is one of the better doctrines that has been posted on this thread. I would call it fit for purpose even if I don't agree with its principles.
Swith Witherward wrote:But I trust the people here. Well, except Prim. He has shifty eyes but his cute smile make up for it.
Monfrox wrote:But it's not like we've known Prim to really stick with normality...
P2TM wrote:HORROR/THRILLER Winner - Community Choice Award For Favorite Horror/Thriller Player: Primordial Luxa
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