NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #6

[San-Silvacian]

The army has been deployed inside the US on one occasion that I know of to preempt rioting, with the 101st Airborne was deployed to Little Rock High School. Normally the US army is not legally allowed to carry out peace keeping actions within the US.

This was to federalize the entire Arkansas National Guard and bring them under control as they had been deployed to directly oppose federal legislation.

[The Akasha Colony]

Remember that the bomber gap was perpetuated until the U2 was developed and regularly overflying the Soviet Union - disproving the existence of a huge bomber force.

Granted, these are strategic assets deployed at home and not constantly-moving tactical assets, but good surveillance capabilities will hugely reduce the effect of this tactic.

Didn't the soviet union just fly its bombers around in circles at airshows to give the impression of a huge bomber force? Sounds stupid given that bombers from that time aren't exactly stealthy enough to simply disappear when they left the area where the airshow was taking place, but it seems like it could happen

it was a simpler time

It wasn't a matter of stealth. It was as much to fool their own citizens as anyone else. Unless the US happened to have radar covering Moscow at the time, they wouldn't have been able to see the circles either. All they had was the TV footage.

[Padnak]

It wasn't a matter of stealth. It was as much to fool their own citizens as anyone else. Unless the US happened to have radar covering Moscow at the time, they wouldn't have been able to see the circles either. All they had was the TV footage.

I thought that there were US officials in attendance?

[The Akasha Colony]

It wasn't a matter of stealth. It was as much to fool their own citizens as anyone else. Unless the US happened to have radar covering Moscow at the time, they wouldn't have been able to see the circles either. All they had was the TV footage.

I thought that there were US officials in attendance?

Unless those US officials were secretly carrying radar on them, they'd be limited only to visual observations, just like the regular citizens. All the planes have to do is loop around out of visual range.

[Imperializt Russia]

The army has been deployed inside the US on one occasion that I know of to preempt rioting, with the 101st Airborne was deployed to Little Rock High School. Normally the US army is not legally allowed to carry out peace keeping actions within the US.

This was to federalize the entire Arkansas National Guard and bring them under control as they had been deployed to directly oppose federal legislation.

Interesting backstory to that event.

[Mitheldalond]

This was to federalize the entire Arkansas National Guard and bring them under control as they had been deployed to directly oppose federal legislation.

Interesting backstory to that event.

Here's the rest of said story.

[Imperializt Russia]

Indeed, it's where I've just come from.

Says a lot about the civil rights movement though, doesn't it.
"Let's desegregate and integrate black students rapidly."
"No."
>additionally sends state military to oppose pathetically limited alternative plan anyway

[Padnak]

Unless those US officials were secretly carrying radar on them, they'd be limited only to visual observations, just like the regular citizens. All the planes have to do is loop around out of visual range.

I get that, but I don't think it would be too hard to spot a bunch of fuckhuge bright silver bombers flying around in circles at low altitude

Obviously they didn't, but I just find it a bit funny that the soviet union could fool the US by flying around in circles

[Purpelia]

I get that, but I don't think it would be too hard to spot a bunch of fuckhuge bright silver bombers flying around in circles at low altitude

Obviously they didn't, but I just find it a bit funny that the soviet union could fool the US by flying around in circles

It's not easy at all if all you have to work with are carefully doctored video recordings of the event that only show you what they want you to see.

[Imperializt Russia]

Unless those US officials were secretly carrying radar on them, they'd be limited only to visual observations, just like the regular citizens. All the planes have to do is loop around out of visual range.

I get that, but I don't think it would be too hard to spot a bunch of fuckhuge bright silver bombers flying around in circles at low altitude

Obviously they didn't, but I just find it a bit funny that the soviet union could fool the US by flying around in circles

Well supposedly (according to a documentary on secret weapons of the Cold War, in this case, surveillance technologies), bombers were deliberately flown over the American embassy, as the KGB/some other Russian intelligence service knew that American agents, or staff reporting for American intelligence, would be taking note of the new bombers.
Deliberate misinformation campaign, as they knew that whatever figures would be sent back would have to be extrapolated up.

IIRC, certain known moles on both sides were deliberately left alone so they could be fed misinformation.
Others were not so lucky, such as the high-ranking Soviet officer executed for espionage when he was caught using a micro-camera to photograph documents for the Americans.

[San-Silvacian]

Unless those US officials were secretly carrying radar on them, they'd be limited only to visual observations, just like the regular citizens. All the planes have to do is loop around out of visual range.

I get that, but I don't think it would be too hard to spot a bunch of fuckhuge bright silver bombers flying around in circles at low altitude

Obviously they didn't, but I just find it a bit funny that the soviet union could fool the US by flying around in circles

Well the US thought the MiG-25 was a super fighter.

Then get got their hands on it.

The Soviets are great at smoke and mirrors.

[The Corparation]

I get that, but I don't think it would be too hard to spot a bunch of fuckhuge bright silver bombers flying around in circles at low altitude

Obviously they didn't, but I just find it a bit funny that the soviet union could fool the US by flying around in circles

Well the US thought the MiG-25 was a super fighter.

Then get got their hands on it.

The Soviets are great at smoke and mirrors.

I thought that those estimations were based primarily from pictures of the aircraft and less Soviet Smoke and mirrors.

[Mitheldalond]

I get that, but I don't think it would be too hard to spot a bunch of fuckhuge bright silver bombers flying around in circles at low altitude

Obviously they didn't, but I just find it a bit funny that the soviet union could fool the US by flying around in circles

Well the US thought the MiG-25 was a super fighter.

Then get got their hands on it.

The Soviets are great at smoke and mirrors.

And also at getting the US to design cool stuff to fight those smoke and mirrors, since the F-15 was designed to counter the Mig-25.

[Padnak]

Well the US thought the MiG-25 was a super fighter.
Then get got their hands on it.
The Soviets are great at smoke and mirrors.

but but but the MiG-25 is best plane! b-baka

The US got their hands on it when someone defected to Japan in one right?

[San-Silvacian]

Well the US thought the MiG-25 was a super fighter.
Then get got their hands on it.
The Soviets are great at smoke and mirrors.

but but but the MiG-25 is best plane! b-baka

The US got their hands on it when someone defected to Japan in one right?

Yeah because the Soviet Union was so kawaii that people defected it.

Well the US thought the MiG-25 was a super fighter.

Then get got their hands on it.

The Soviets are great at smoke and mirrors.

And also at getting the US to design cool stuff to fight those smoke and mirrors, since the F-15 was designed to counter the Mig-25.

Then the F-15 proceeded to be better than everything the Soviets and later Russians produced up until recently.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

but but but the MiG-25 is best plane! b-baka

The US got their hands on it when someone defected to Japan in one right?

Yeah because the Soviet Union was so kawaii that people defected it.

And also at getting the US to design cool stuff to fight those smoke and mirrors, since the F-15 was designed to counter the Mig-25.

Then the F-15 proceeded to be better than everything the Soviets and later Russians produced up until recently.

And the F-15's pretty damn old, now. It had a good run, and no doubt it'll last a lot longer as a fighter-bomber.

[San-Silvacian]

Thats why they are producing more of them.

[Padnak]

Thats why they are producing more of them.

All powerful MiG-21 crushes punny F-15 every day of the weak!

Serious question, wasn't their a variant of the F-15 with canards proposed at one point?

[Mitheldalond]

Yeah because the Soviet Union was so kawaii that people defected it.



Then the F-15 proceeded to be better than everything the Soviets and later Russians produced up until recently.

And the F-15's pretty damn old, now. It had a good run, and no doubt it'll last a lot longer as a fighter-bomber.

The F-15 is still in production, and is will be until 2019. It is expected to stay in US service past 2025. No air superiority versions of the Eagle have ever been shot down.

[The Corparation]

Thats why they are producing more of them.

All powerful MiG-21 crushes punny F-15 every day of the weak!

Serious question, wasn't their a variant of the F-15 with canards proposed at one point?

There was an F-15 modified with canards among other things as a technology demonstrator, but I have no idea if there were ever plans to mass produce a variant with the features it had

[Inyourfaceistan]

Thats why they are producing more of them.

All powerful MiG-21 crushes punny F-15 every day of the weak!

Serious question, wasn't their a variant of the F-15 with canards proposed at one point?

Yes. It was called ACTIVE and it was a tech demonstrator, whatever that means...

[Purpelia]

Yes. It was called ACTIVE and it was a tech demonstrator, whatever that means...

Basically it's something that a factory builds to see if a concept they have would work.

[Padnak]

Yes. It was called ACTIVE and it was a tech demonstrator, whatever that means...

Basically it's something that a factory builds to see if a concept they have would work.

then nationstates takes it as an active weapon they should be using

*cough* Su-47 *cough**cough*

[Velkanika]

Unless those US officials were secretly carrying radar on them, they'd be limited only to visual observations, just like the regular citizens. All the planes have to do is loop around out of visual range.

I get that, but I don't think it would be too hard to spot a bunch of fuckhuge bright silver bombers flying around in circles at low altitude

Obviously they didn't, but I just find it a bit funny that the soviet union could fool the US by flying around in circles

Moscow has some rather tall buildings around Red Square, and the bombers flew out of the city and turned around over farm land. They did three passes, which from memory was a pass of three, a pass of four, then a pass of all seven plus one more. The end result was that the Western analysts counted them all as different aircraft and extrapolated that number up in the absence of information. Strategic reconnaissance really took the wind out of the Soviet's sails for a reason.

[Gallia-]

All powerful MiG-21 crushes punny F-15 every day of the weak!

Serious question, wasn't their a variant of the F-15 with canards proposed at one point?

Yes. It was called ACTIVE and it was a tech demonstrator, whatever that means...

A technology demonstrator is exactly what it purports to be.

It demonstrates a technology.