NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #6

[Spirit of Hope]

Is it possible to create an earthquake glide bomb? I'm thinking of using such a weapon for strikes against hydroelectric power stations, with the hope that the tremors created will be enough to bust the entire dam open.

Dams are designed with the idea that they might have to withstand earthquakes in mind. I don't think you would be able to get large enough bomb to create a large enough earthquake to break a dam in that way.

In stead why don't you just drop a bomb on the dam and break it open?

[Auroya]

Is it possible to create an earthquake glide bomb? I'm thinking of using such a weapon for strikes against hydroelectric power stations, with the hope that the tremors created will be enough to bust the entire dam open.

Dams are designed with the idea that they might have to withstand earthquakes in mind. I don't think you would be able to get large enough bomb to create a large enough earthquake to break a dam in that way.

In stead why don't you just drop a bomb on the dam and break it open?

I was thinking along the lines of utilising the 'bounding bomb' concept to cause a detonation at the base of the dam but decided that would be too risky.

Actually, I remember reading a document about the Storm Shadow glide bomb being used to destroy dams. Such a weapon would be sufficient, I suppose, without requiring that the aircraft gets too close.

[Mitheldalond]

I think you're thinking of the Typhoon-class.
Typhoon is being superseded by the more modern Borei-class, with its new SLBMs.

Aha! But this depends on what "Akula class subs" is referring to.

In Western/NATO nomenclature, "Akula" was the codename applied to the Pr. 971 class of nuclear-powered attack submarines, known in the USSR as the "Shchuka." In the past, NATO had named Soviet subs according to letters of the military phonetic alphabet - Charlie, Delta, Echo, Foxtrot, Golf - but after Yankee and Zulu, they ran out of letters and started over again from "A" with Russian terms for fish ("Akula" meaning "Shark").

Purely by coincidence, however, "Akula" was also being used in Soviet nomenclature - but in reference to an entirely different submarine. This was the famous Pr. 941 class, known in Western/NATO nomenclature as the "Typhoon."

This is why I don't use Russian/Soviet equipment. Everything has at least two names, two designations, and none of them make any sense whatsoever.

[Padnak]

This is why I don't use Russian/Soviet equipment. Everything has at least two names, two designations, and none of them make any sense whatsoever.

Nato Reporting name
Soviet military designation
Soviet industry designation (Isn't it called the GRU index?)
Soviet official nickname (on some equipment)

the cold war was really damn complicated

[Allanea]

Is it possible to create an earthquake glide bomb? I'm thinking of using such a weapon for strikes against hydroelectric power stations, with the hope that the tremors created will be enough to bust the entire dam open.

this might help

[Imperializt Russia]

This is why I don't use Russian/Soviet equipment. Everything has at least two names, two designations, and none of them make any sense whatsoever.

Nato Reporting name
Soviet military designation
Soviet industry designation (Isn't it called the GRU index?)
Soviet official nickname (on some equipment)

the cold war was really damn complicated

So complicated they couldn't even remember unit numbers and had to keep repainting their bombers.

[Inyourfaceistan]

Is it possible to create an earthquake glide bomb? I'm thinking of using such a weapon for strikes against hydroelectric power stations, with the hope that the tremors created will be enough to bust the entire dam open.

Just use a bunch of JDAM's...
I believe something of the sort happened in Afghanistan, with enough bombs creating minor seismic disruption.

Or just fire a handful of AGM-158 JASSM-ER from a stand-off range and burst it open like that, it would probably be easier and less costly in terms of potential risk and exposure to enemy air defenses.

[Padnak]

So complicated they couldn't even remember unit numbers and had to keep repainting their bombers.

Forgot about that...

That raises and interesting idea, if you wanted to be really sneaky you could hypothetically trick an adversary into thinking you have more units in an area then you do by adopting a unified numbering system, then simply repainting the different numbers onto different vehicles to give the impression theres more vehicles in an area then there really are

against a competent adversary it wouldn't work, but in a war between two fairly evenly matched but still lackluster forces, it could be effective

[Spirit of Hope]

So complicated they couldn't even remember unit numbers and had to keep repainting their bombers.

Forgot about that...

That raises and interesting idea, if you wanted to be really sneaky you could hypothetically trick an adversary into thinking you have more units in an area then you do by adopting a unified numbering system, then simply repainting the different numbers onto different vehicles to give the impression theres more vehicles in an area then there really are

against a competent adversary it wouldn't work, but in a war between two fairly evenly matched but still lackluster forces, it could be effective

Even against a competent opponent using playing with your numbering is a great way to screw with their intelligence gathering. After all they can't have their eyes on everything, and the more crap you throw at them the more crap they are likely to believe and act on.

The US for a while didn't number the SEAL teams sequentially, they just had random numbers. This way if the Soviets found a memo talking about SEAL Team numbers they would think there were more teams than their really were.

[Inyourfaceistan]

So complicated they couldn't even remember unit numbers and had to keep repainting their bombers.

Forgot about that...

That raises and interesting idea, if you wanted to be really sneaky you could hypothetically trick an adversary into thinking you have more units in an area then you do by adopting a unified numbering system, then simply repainting the different numbers onto different vehicles to give the impression theres more vehicles in an area then there really are

against a competent adversary it wouldn't work, but in a war between two fairly evenly matched but still lackluster forces, it could be effective

Or depending on the situation; less units, and poorly equipped ones at that!

[Padnak]

Is it possible to create an earthquake glide bomb? I'm thinking of using such a weapon for strikes against hydroelectric power stations, with the hope that the tremors created will be enough to bust the entire dam open.

I could sell you some HOGs...

[Imperializt Russia]

So complicated they couldn't even remember unit numbers and had to keep repainting their bombers.

Forgot about that...

That raises and interesting idea, if you wanted to be really sneaky you could hypothetically trick an adversary into thinking you have more units in an area then you do by adopting a unified numbering system, then simply repainting the different numbers onto different vehicles to give the impression theres more vehicles in an area then there really are

against a competent adversary it wouldn't work, but in a war between two fairly evenly matched but still lackluster forces, it could be effective

Remember that the bomber gap was perpetuated until the U2 was developed and regularly overflying the Soviet Union - disproving the existence of a huge bomber force.

Granted, these are strategic assets deployed at home and not constantly-moving tactical assets, but good surveillance capabilities will hugely reduce the effect of this tactic.

[Padnak]

Remember that the bomber gap was perpetuated until the U2 was developed and regularly overflying the Soviet Union - disproving the existence of a huge bomber force.

Granted, these are strategic assets deployed at home and not constantly-moving tactical assets, but good surveillance capabilities will hugely reduce the effect of this tactic.

Didn't the soviet union just fly its bombers around in circles at airshows to give the impression of a huge bomber force? Sounds stupid given that bombers from that time aren't exactly stealthy enough to simply disappear when they left the area where the airshow was taking place, but it seems like it could happen

it was a simpler time

[Tule]

So complicated they couldn't even remember unit numbers and had to keep repainting their bombers.

Forgot about that...

That raises and interesting idea, if you wanted to be really sneaky you could hypothetically trick an adversary into thinking you have more units in an area then you do by adopting a unified numbering system, then simply repainting the different numbers onto different vehicles to give the impression theres more vehicles in an area then there really are

against a competent adversary it wouldn't work, but in a war between two fairly evenly matched but still lackluster forces, it could be effective

Reminds me of a prank my school's student's association played on a rival school before a quiz team tournament.

They released three chickens into the school's hallways.

The chickens were numbered:

1, 2 and 4.

[Astholm]

OK, so this is a little bit off-topic from what was discussed above, but is still pertinent to military; when would the army come in, regarding riots?
It's in relation to an RP in my nation; the original post is here.

I'm trying to make it as realistic as possible, advice is much appreciated.

[Korva]

OK, so this is a little bit off-topic from what was discussed above, but is still pertinent to military; when would the army come in, regarding riots?
It's in relation to an RP in my nation; the original post is here.

I'm trying to make it as realistic as possible, advice is much appreciated.

In my nation it goes, from first response to last: City/Town Police -> State/Province Police -> Interior Ministry -> Army

The army would only ever be deployed if the riots turned into civil war or something like it.

[Mitheldalond]

Forgot about that...

That raises and interesting idea, if you wanted to be really sneaky you could hypothetically trick an adversary into thinking you have more units in an area then you do by adopting a unified numbering system, then simply repainting the different numbers onto different vehicles to give the impression theres more vehicles in an area then there really are

against a competent adversary it wouldn't work, but in a war between two fairly evenly matched but still lackluster forces, it could be effective

Reminds me of a prank my school's student's association played on a rival school before a quiz team tournament.

They released three chickens into the school's hallways.

The chickens were numbered:

1, 2 and 4.

Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

OK, so this is a little bit off-topic from what was discussed above, but is still pertinent to military; when would the army come in, regarding riots?
It's in relation to an RP in my nation; the original post is here.

I'm trying to make it as realistic as possible, advice is much appreciated.

In the US, someone stole a tank and went on a rampage around town, crushing cars, knocking over buildings, etc. (no gun, just driving around.) The police handled it without the Army or even National Guard helping out. They were considering borrowing an M2 Browning from the National Guard, but didn't.

At no point would the US military ever be deployed to put down a riot (too much paper work and committees involved in deploying troops on US soil. Most riots will be handled by the police, which is what riot police are for. I suppose it's conceivable that the National Guard might be called in if the rioters are well armed and fighting back, but at that point it's more of a battle than a riot anyway.

Other countries are much more willing to use military force to put down rioters; China for example.

[Holy Marsh]

The National Guard gets deployed because of riots often.

[The Greater Luthorian Empire]

Reminds me of a prank my school's student's association played on a rival school before a quiz team tournament.

They released three chickens into the school's hallways.

The chickens were numbered:

1, 2 and 4.

I once did a prank involving putting Nair in shampoo. And then another prank where I dumped a bag of human hair (don't worry, it was my hair, I shaved my jew fro off the day before) on my friend when he was showering so it would stick to his body and clog the drain. Hair pranks are best pranks.

[Kouralia]

At no point would the US military ever be deployed to put down a riot (too much paper work and committees involved in deploying troops on US soil. Most riots will be handled by the police, which is what riot police are for. I suppose it's conceivable that the National Guard might be called in if the rioters are well armed and fighting back, but at that point it's more of a battle than a riot anyway.

Other countries are much more willing to use military force to put down rioters; China for example.

Meanwhile in Missouri.

[Spirit of Hope]

At no point would the US military ever be deployed to put down a riot (too much paper work and committees involved in deploying troops on US soil. Most riots will be handled by the police, which is what riot police are for. I suppose it's conceivable that the National Guard might be called in if the rioters are well armed and fighting back, but at that point it's more of a battle than a riot anyway.

Other countries are much more willing to use military force to put down rioters; China for example.

Meanwhile in Missouri.

That is the National Guard, which has been on occasion called out to deal with rioting, normally in situations where the local police can't handle it or the local police are only making the situation worse.

The army has been deployed inside the US on one occasion that I know of to preempt rioting, with the 101st Airborne was deployed to Little Rock High School. Normally the US army is not legally allowed to carry out peace keeping actions within the US.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

At no point would the US military ever be deployed to put down a riot (too much paper work and committees involved in deploying troops on US soil. Most riots will be handled by the police, which is what riot police are for. I suppose it's conceivable that the National Guard might be called in if the rioters are well armed and fighting back, but at that point it's more of a battle than a riot anyway.

Other countries are much more willing to use military force to put down rioters; China for example.

Meanwhile in Missouri.

Yeah, Spirit got that right - those are Guard elements, which are nominally state-controlled as opposed to federally-controlled.
It wouldn't be impossible for regulars to be deployed on US soil - the 1st Marines and the 7th Infantry were both called out during the LA Riots in 1992 along with local Guard forces - but it's vastly more difficult to get done than using the NG.

[Kouralia]

Superiorest method of dealing with public disorder, amirite?

[Bratislavskaya]

So complicated they couldn't even remember unit numbers and had to keep repainting their bombers.

Forgot about that...

That raises and interesting idea, if you wanted to be really sneaky you could hypothetically trick an adversary into thinking you have more units in an area then you do by adopting a unified numbering system, then simply repainting the different numbers onto different vehicles to give the impression theres more vehicles in an area then there really are

against a competent adversary it wouldn't work, but in a war between two fairly evenly matched but still lackluster forces, it could be effective

Apparently the Soviet Navy did this with Yak-38s in the Mediterranean, when they were first deployed.

[Padnak]

(Image)

Superiorest method of dealing with public disorder, amirite?

Thermobarics are best crowd control weapon