NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #6

[Zeinbrad]

Would two companies of security be good enough for a regiment of infantry with a armored company?

[Korouse]

Would two companies of security be good enough for a regiment of infantry with a armored company?

no.


spam anti ship missiles. its padnak aproovd.

Joking aside - security as in?

[Zeinbrad]

Would two companies of security be good enough for a regiment of infantry with a armored company?

no.


spam anti ship missiles. its padnak aproovd.

Joking aside - security as in?

Military police for ships.

Note they are on a spaceship designed for aggressive force project.

[Korouse]

no.


spam anti ship missiles. its padnak aproovd.

Joking aside - security as in?

Military police for ships.

Note they are on a spaceship designed for aggressive force project.

Offense is best defense. Don't risk speed.

[Triplebaconation]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMT-7
Is there a NATO version?

Not for ground warfare, no.
But I found this:
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_displ ... d=337&ct=2

Of course there is. The EMT-7 doesn't create an "electromagnetic pulse" in the NS sense, it just mimics the electromagnetic field of a moving tank. In the West similar devices are called magnetic signature duplicators and are fairly common. The wiki article makes it seem like advanced technology in testing but it's really old.

[Padnak]

spam anti ship missiles. its padnak aproovd.

Joking aside - security as in?

*Soviet union approved

[United Earthlings]

An amendment to my early post that got quoted about the IR signature of Prop Fighters.

If this is 1950's with old Sidewinder using Lead Sulfide element seeker.. Prop fighter might be almost invisible because PbS sensing element is practically blind to anything colder than jet pipe.

But now.. It's the era of HgCdTe and InSb.. IR seeker can now "see" Aircraft's body, not necessarily need to aim for exhaust. So prop plane is in danger too.

In the future i'd expect multi-layered bandgap detector or QWIP that can work in both Short wave IR and Mid Wave.. Maybe Long wave too, without cooling 4 overkill.

While, all that is true, a few things I should have elaborated on, but didn’t.

1. Not all RP military powers are going to be using the latest and best toys nor probably knowing how to employ those toys in the most tactically efficient manner.
2. Does anyone disagree with the statement that a jet turbine engine will radiate a much bigger heat signature then a turboprop one? Combined, that with the use of flares at the right moment and that gives a nice advantage to the prop fighter especially with its better turning ability.
3. Not even modern IR guided missiles have a 100% pK rate.
4. On the aircraft’s body, most of that heat is generated from the large turbofans engines putting out all that thrust in addition to flying conditions the airframe is stressed under. Not eliminated completely in a prop fighter, but by my reasoning should be significantly reduced.
5. I have no doubt a prop fighter plane could be brought down by a IR guided missile, but by having a smaller heat signature located mostly in the front as well as being a smaller target to begin with that does present one’s enemy additional difficulties in bringing one down.

[Zeinbrad]

Military police for ships.

Note they are on a spaceship designed for aggressive force project.

Offense is best defense. Don't risk speed.

Yes?

[Vancon]

Mil-Police:
Yes, due to the fact that court martial-ing is a thing.

Suggestion: Go look at the Longsword that Lyras has developed. I think he wrote somewhere about how many security/police people he has on the Longswords and also a bit of info as to why they're useful.

[Triplebaconation]

An amendment to my early post that got quoted about the IR signature of Prop Fighters.

If this is 1950's with old Sidewinder using Lead Sulfide element seeker.. Prop fighter might be almost invisible because PbS sensing element is practically blind to anything colder than jet pipe.

But now.. It's the era of HgCdTe and InSb.. IR seeker can now "see" Aircraft's body, not necessarily need to aim for exhaust. So prop plane is in danger too.

In the future i'd expect multi-layered bandgap detector or QWIP that can work in both Short wave IR and Mid Wave.. Maybe Long wave too, without cooling 4 overkill.

While, all that is true, a few things I should have elaborated on, but didn’t.

[list=A][*] Not all RP military powers are going to be using the latest and best toys nor probably knowing how to employ those toys in the most tactically efficient manner.
[*]Does anyone disagree with the statement that a jet turbine engine will radiate a much bigger heat signature then a turboprop one? Combined, that with the use of flares at the right moment and that gives a nice advantage to the prop fighter especially with its better turning ability.

Yes. The exhaust temperature of a big piston engine will be approximately the same as an unreheated turbine. Prop fighters don't have better turning ability compared to an agile modern fighter - they have a smaller turning radius because they're typically slower and bleed energy faster, which is a bad thing when trying to evade missiles.

Who cares about missiles anyway? The modern fighter completely outclasses the WW2 one in a gunfight.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

charge of the light brigade brought much needed glory and honour to the 11th hsusars and whatever shit units followed them

The thing is the issues that occured in the crimean war as a result of the long peace and and purchasing of commisions were nothign comapred to the hideous issues that occured in india as a result of promotion due to seniority and a similar long peace. Without the purchase system and a regular culling of officers a seniority only system results in a lot of old and unexpereinced officers across all ranks. The british purchase system allowed older officers a useful way to cash out into retirement.

The british pruchase system was no where near as terrible as people make out, it was heavily seniority based and any role that required any real technical/professional training was excluded from the system. Also in time of war it allowed a fairly rapid method of letting chair bound and cowardly officers get out from everyone else's feet. Plus it made perfect sense compared msot of the other mechanisms in palce across the world at the time.

Don't want to die in French army fighting their way to Moscow?

Pay a private to take your commission.

[Rich and Corporations]

140mm guns were becoming a real thing towards the end of the Cold War.

All the major NATO powers have or had 140mm gun test beds (The AMX Leclerc was built to have a 140mm dropped in when, if, the transition from 120mm to 140mm happens IRL, US still operates its 140mm M1 testbed, Germany has theirs in storage because 2poor.)

Russians dropped in a 152mm gun into a T-80 testbed and planned for 152mm armed whatever T-9X series blah blah black eagle tankus.

There were some not insubstantial problems with the 140-mm guns that weren't fixed before they were abandoned.

Recoil mechanisms?

[Hurtful Thoughts]

There were some not insubstantial problems with the 140-mm guns that weren't fixed before they were abandoned.

Recoil mechanisms?

Tank hull shake?

[Triplebaconation]

140mm guns were abandoned when the engineers read about the 7m rule.

[Mitheldalond]

140mm guns were abandoned when the engineers read about the 7m rule.

7m rule?

[Vitaphone Racing]

Here we go

[Hurtful Thoughts]

140mm guns were abandoned when the engineers read about the 7m rule.

7m rule?

viewtopic.php?p=7723554#p7723554

Two things.

1. 140mm 55 caliber breaks the 7 meter rule, meaning that a tank cannot accurately (with any real accuracy beyond right in front of the barrel) fire on the move. It is okay to break it by like 40mm, but much more and it will be useless on the move. 140mm 50 caliber would work fine.

2. 140mm guns aren't really needed to deal with modern (RL like the Type-99) tanks, and it looks like south korea may go for ETC instead of a bigger bore gun for the K2 PIP (product improvement pack, think of it like the Mk II).

Ultimately, this is actually just paraphrasing Sumer

[Inyourfaceistan]

140mm guns were abandoned when the engineers read about the 7m rule.

So why can't a 140mm gun (or 139mm in my case) be less than 7 meters long?

[Mitheldalond]

140mm guns were abandoned when the engineers read about the 7m rule.

So why can't a 140mm gun (or 139mm in my case) be less than 7 meters long?

They can. The problem is with guns more than 7m long.

[The Kievan People]

The 7 metre rule is overstated. Think of it as a guideline, not a law.

[Vancon]

The 7 metre rule is overstated. Think of it as a guideline, not a law.

Pirates of the Caribbean references for life.

[New Vihenia]

I'll just make use of XM-150 with additional 6mm bore :3

[Mitheldalond]

I'm thinking of making a warship based on the Maltese Falcon yacht. Probably something like a Coast Guard cutter or a patrol boat, not a front line warship like a cruiser or destroyer.

Main user will be the Coast Guard, mostly for law enforcement in the economic zone and territorial waters.

What do you think of the idea?

[The Soodean Imperium]

I'm thinking of making a warship based on the Maltese Falcon yacht. Probably something like a Coast Guard cutter or a patrol boat, not a front line warship like a cruiser or destroyer.

Main user will be the Coast Guard, mostly for law enforcement in the economic zone and territorial waters.

What do you think of the idea?

Sail power isn't really a good option for coast guard cutters and patrol boats, even if it's just a secondary means of propulsion; a consistent ability to reach high speed is a necessity when a big part of your duty involves chasing down smugglers or hurrying over to help a vessel in distress.

If you want cool sailing ships in your modern navy, then use them in the same way real-life countries use them: as training ships. The cramped spaces and demanding manual labor will go a long way to prepare young land-lubber recruits for life at sea.

[Mitheldalond]

I'm thinking of making a warship based on the Maltese Falcon yacht. Probably something like a Coast Guard cutter or a patrol boat, not a front line warship like a cruiser or destroyer.

Main user will be the Coast Guard, mostly for law enforcement in the economic zone and territorial waters.

What do you think of the idea?

Sail power isn't really a good option for coast guard cutters and patrol boats, even if it's just a secondary means of propulsion; a consistent ability to reach high speed is a necessity when a big part of your duty involves chasing down smugglers or hurrying over to help a vessel in distress.

If you want cool sailing ships in your modern navy, then use them in the same way real-life countries use them: as training ships. The cramped spaces and demanding manual labor will go a long way to prepare young land-lubber recruits for life at sea.

All the sources I've looked at claim she can do 18-20 knots under sail alone. (One source claimed 25 knots, but that seems unlikely)