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Your Nation's Air Force Mark II:

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=287221

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Your Nation's Air Force Mark II:

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:36 am
by The Corparation
Image


Title says it all. Post your Nation's Air Force here. Planes, Helicopters, Gyrodynes and Autogyros are all welcome. Be they Strategic bomber or tiny trainer post it here. Naval Aviation is fine too. So are Missiles. Anything and everything that flies through the air and isn't a mech. Mechs go in the Mech thread. In addition to the ban on mecha, posts like "Our whole Air Force is Classified" are not acceptable answers. Ignoring all of the various reasons why that's pretty much impossible in the modern world, this thread is to show off what you have, and possibly even seek insight on how to make what you have better. Please note that by posting in here you open yourself up to any and all constructive criticism people here have to offer. (Really we're only trying to help) That said you should avoid going out of your way to criticize posts that aren't even trying making an attempt at realism, and don't want help to have a realistic air force is also frowned upon.

Mark I is found here.

Other Useful threads:
[http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=355016]Realisim Consultation Thread[/url]
Infantry Discussion Thread
Ground Vehicle Discussion Thread
Your Nation's Warships


Some helpful reads:

For those of you who want to maybe dip your foot into designing a fighter or other aircraft, The NS Draftroom's Guide to building a Fighter is a great place to start.
New Vihenia wrote:
Fighter aircraft combat range calculator is now available.

https://www.mediafire.com/?yakbbbnb018gb2b

It has two modules which do exactly same thing, 1st module however do calculation for only ONE aircraft. The 2nd Module does multiple planes which you can see by yourself.



What Aircraft Should I use? Or why F-22s, B-52s, and A-10s alone are not a legitimate Air Force.
To be added


The failures of FSW: Why the Forward Swept Wing isn't as Cool as you think.
The Forward Swept Wing (FSW) is a common element that comes up often in NS fighter design. It offers a major increase in maneuverability, and it can look pretty bad ass. But its advantages end there. Both the United States, and Russia built tech demonstrators using FSWs. (The Grumman X-29 and Sukhoi Su-47 respectively.) Both are neat looking aircraft, but if you look at both companies, and fast forwards to today, both projects ended in dead ends without any major follow ups. The reasons for this are simple, the engineers at both companies realized that the pros don't outweigh the cons. What exactly are the cons? For starters the FSW has severe stability issues at high speeds. While such instability can be somewhat compensated for with modern flight Fly-by-wire technology, there is no way of overcoming the other flaws. Namely increased stress on the wings which leads to increased wear on the airframe, and thus a short life for the aircraft. This leads to the next major drawback, the need for a stronger wing, a stronger wing means more mass, and more mass in the wing means less payload you can carry.

to be continued

Also don't even think about Forward Swept Swing Wings. They're literally impossible due to the way the cross section of the wing changes between the different swing modes and the heavy and complex equipment you'd need to move the wings.


Why the A-10 is not the answer to modern Air Support:
Insert guide here
Until that guide is in place, a handy debate on the subject that points out its flaws may be foundhere In the previous thread.

Now from somethings that aren't as good as you think, to something that isn't as bad as you think.
Why the F-35 isn't as Shit as you think it is:
inset guide here


Some Examples of NS Fighters done right:


To Be added




EDIT: Updated Links, added in comments regarding going after posters for intentionally unrealistic Air Forces.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:43 am
by Spirit of Hope
New thread! I use Rafale's, lots of Rafale's.

EDIT: I'm linked in the OP! I feel so accomplished!

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:04 am
by Themiclesia
Is there still a place for non-jet aircraft in a MT military?

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:06 am
by Transnapastain
A list of aircraft in use by the Costa Mejian People's Air Force and the Costa Mejian People's Naval Armada Naval Avation Wing.

Trans has planes too....they're in my factbook...but....meh.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:06 am
by Imperializt Russia
Good day sirs.

The Soviet Air Forces (VVS and PVO) were inherited by Samozniy Russia in the post-Soviet era.
The inventory of equipment is broadly unchanged in the intervening time aside from acquisitions such as the Su-34 "Fullback" strike bomber and the future acquisitions of the PAK-FA Su-50 stealth fighter and the PAK-DA stealth strike bomber programme.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:07 am
by Transnapastain
Themiclesia wrote:Is there still a place for non-jet aircraft in a MT military?


Absolutely.

For one thing, helicopters. :P

For another, propeller driven aircraft are widely used, and useful, for COIN and maritime patrol operations.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:09 am
by Zhouran
Transnapastain wrote:
Themiclesia wrote:Is there still a place for non-jet aircraft in a MT military?


Absolutely.

For one thing, helicopters. :P

For another, propeller driven aircraft are widely used, and useful, for COIN and maritime patrol operations.

How about glider planes?

It may sound stupid, but a simple-made, wooden glider would be perfect to send troops and infiltrate. And yes, I know that gliders can't take off.

But glider planes, since they are cheap, they would be disposable.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:09 am
by The Corparation
Themiclesia wrote:Is there still a place for non-jet aircraft in a MT military?

Yes. Case in point the majority of light attack aircraft for COIN. In addition to those they're also still useful for basic trainers and transports.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:10 am
by Licana
Themiclesia wrote:Is there still a place for non-jet aircraft in a MT military?


Considering prop aircraft are still fairly prolific, I'd go with yes.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:27 am
by Vitaphone Racing
Needs more Kfir

Image

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:30 am
by Oaledonia
RUSSIAN BIAS!111!!!1111!!!one!!111!!!!1

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:15 am
by United States of PA
Is there any sort of reason why a F-22 cannot be modified into a two seater F-15E type aircraft without going FB-22 on it?

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:33 am
by United states of brazilian nations
Themiclesia wrote:Is there still a place for non-jet aircraft in a MT military?


A-29 Super Tucano for maximum levels of border patrol and drugdealer/separatist/paramilitary-killing. (AKA COIN) you can also use it as an initial trainer aircraft, doubling its usefulness.

Brazil, Ecuador, Colombia and Chile approve of this aircraft's efficiency in killing paramilitary organizations.

IIRC, the US navy also ordered a demonstrator and one aircraft was also bought by Academi, former Blackwater.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:34 am
by Spirit of Hope
United States of PA wrote:Is there any sort of reason why a F-22 cannot be modified into a two seater F-15E type aircraft without going FB-22 on it?

Why would you want a two seater version of the F-22?
Now there was a F-22B that would have had two seats, but it was canceled because of money and not being needed.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:35 am
by Oaledonia
United states of brazilian nations wrote:
Themiclesia wrote:Is there still a place for non-jet aircraft in a MT military?


A-29 Super Tucano for maximum levels of border patrol and drugdealer/separatist/paramilitary-killing. (AKA COIN)

Brazil, Ecuador, Colombia and Chile approve of this aircraft's efficiency in killing paramilitary organizations.

IIRC, the US navy also ordered a demonstrator and one aircraft was also bought by Academi, former Blackwater.

Remove tucano, enable OV-10 and skymaster

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:08 am
by Kassaran
Oaledonia wrote:
United states of brazilian nations wrote:
A-29 Super Tucano for maximum levels of border patrol and drugdealer/separatist/paramilitary-killing. (AKA COIN)

Brazil, Ecuador, Colombia and Chile approve of this aircraft's efficiency in killing paramilitary organizations.

IIRC, the US navy also ordered a demonstrator and one aircraft was also bought by Academi, former Blackwater.

Remove tucano, enable OV-10 and skymaster

GAWD YES, So much OV-10!

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:35 am
by United states of brazilian nations
Oaledonia wrote:
United states of brazilian nations wrote:
A-29 Super Tucano for maximum levels of border patrol and drugdealer/separatist/paramilitary-killing. (AKA COIN)

Brazil, Ecuador, Colombia and Chile approve of this aircraft's efficiency in killing paramilitary organizations.

IIRC, the US navy also ordered a demonstrator and one aircraft was also bought by Academi, former Blackwater.

Remove tucano, enable OV-10 and skymaster

WARNING: this post may not be entirely serious. all gramatic errors in this post are intentional and intended to reinforce the not-totally-serious nature of the post. if you are a grammar nazi, look away now.

can OV-10 into taking off from short improvised runaway that is just really a line of dirt and rocks in the middle of the amazonic forest?

can OV-10 into low cost and yet high performance? can OV-10 into clear cockpit vison? can OV-10 into simplicity and cheap as dirt low maintenance costs? can OV-10 into integral .50 machinegun for quick killings of light vehicles? (external pods don't count)

Colombia of losing OV-10 in combat because OV-10 of puny and weak compared to STRONK A-29 Super Tucano. Super Tucano is of fitted with magic of amazonic forest to make killings of enemy. is true that also lost A-29 in combat, but is because A-29 is used much more intensively. many sucessful operation with A-29 were accomplished resulting in fast killing of FARC scum.

Wikipedia wrote:Venezuela's OV-10s are to be retired in the coming years. Originally Venezuela attempted to procure Embraer Super Tucano aircraft to replace the OV-10, but no deal was achieved which President Chavez claimed was due to the result of pressure from the U.S. government.[34] The Venezuelan government has decided not to replace them with new fixed wing aircraft. Rather, the Venezuelan Air Force is replacing them with the Russian made Mil Mi-28 attack helicopter.


Venezuela of wanting to replace weak OV-10 by STRONK A-29 because of superior. but US don't want world to know it, so not let Venezuela buy glorious A-29. so Venezuela decided to replace with OV-10 with russian attack helicopter, which is many shameful for Bronco because shows even helicopters of superior to weak OV-10.

Wikipedia wrote:The A-29 Super Tucano will likely equip the Afghan Air Force in the light attack and advanced training role. The aircraft was declared the winner of the US Light Air Support (LAS) contract competition over the Hawker Beechcraft AT-6B Texan II.[76] However the contract was canceled citing concerns with the procurement process.[77] And rewon in 2013.[78] Under the contract the Afghan military will receive 20 A-29s with the first batch being delivered in 2015.[79] The Pentagon has also proposed to provide to Lebanon a contract for 10 EMB-314.


see? even US thinks A-29 of better choice to Aghanistan that OV-10. notice that OV-10 was not even included in final decision due to many weak and probably not resistings desert sand. only reason the A-29 probably won't into winnings LAAR program is because everyone knows US cannot into adopting foreign equipment. Canberra is exception to rule.

Wikipedia wrote:The aircraft differs from the baseline EMB-312 Tucano trainer aircraft in several crucial respects. It is powered by a more powerful 1,600 Shp Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-68C engine (compared with the 750 Shp powerplant of the EMB-312); has a strengthened airframe to sustain higher g loads and to increase the aircraft's fatigue life (to 18,000–12,000 hours in operational environments); a reinforced landing gear to handle greater takeoff weights with a heavier stores load, now up to 1,550 kilograms (3,300 pounds); Kevlar armour protection; two internal wing-mounted .50 calibre machine guns (with 200 rounds of ammunition each);[8] capacity to carry a variety of ordnance on five weapon hardpoints including Giat NC621 20 mm cannon pods, Mk 81/82 bombs, MAA-1 Piranha air-to-air missiles (AAMs), BLG-252 cluster bombs and SBAT-70/19 or LAU-68A/G rocket pods on its underwing stations; and has a night-vision goggle (NVG)-compatible "glass cockpit" with hands-on-throttle-and-stick (HOTAS) controls; provision for a datalink; a video camera and recorder; an embedded mission-planning capability; forward-looking infrared (FLIR); chaff/flare dispensers; missile approach warning receiver systems (MAWS) and radar warning receivers (RWRs); zero-zero ejection seats.[9] The aircraft structure is corrosion-protected and the side-hinged canopy has a windshield able to withstand any bird strike impact at 270 kts.[10]


see? A-29 many glorious and stronk. can into modern and high performance. can into such hard-hitting armament that could probably take in insurgent tank battalion if insurgent was rich and crazy enough to buy tank battalion. many better than puny Bronco.

A-29 can into max speed of 590 Kph and cruise speed of 520 Kph. fat ugly slow Bronco can only into max speed of 463 Kph. even cruising A-29 can into faster anh thus harder to hit by enemy AA gun.

Tucano is certified with over 130 weapon configurations. is more resistant and better armed than weak Bronco. is simpler and cheaper. is superior.

REMOVE BRONCO FROM PREMISES. TUCANO STRONK. TUCANO EAT BRONCO FOR BREAKFAST AFTER HUMILIATING IT IN DOGFIGHT.
i don't even think COIN aircraft are supposed to dogfight each other

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:41 am
by Oaledonia
United states of brazilian nations wrote:
Oaledonia wrote:Remove tucano, enable OV-10 and skymaster

WARNING: this post may not be entirely serious. all gramatic errors in this post are intentional and intended to reinforce the not-totally-serious nature of the post. if you are a grammar nazi, look away now.

can OV-10 into taking off from short improvised runaway that is just really a line of dirt and rocks in the middle of the amazonic forest?

can OV-10 into low cost and yet high performance? can OV-10 into clear cockpit vison? can OV-10 into simplicity and cheap as dirt low maintenance costs? can OV-10 into integral .50 machinegun for quick killings of light vehicles? (external pods don't count)

Colombia of losing OV-10 in combat because OV-10 of puny and weak compared to STRONK A-29 Super Tucano. Super Tucano is of fitted with magic of amazonic forest to make killings of enemy. is true that also lost A-29 in combat, but is because A-29 is used much more intensively. many sucessful operation with A-29 were accomplished resulting in fast killing of FARC scum.

Wikipedia wrote:Venezuela's OV-10s are to be retired in the coming years. Originally Venezuela attempted to procure Embraer Super Tucano aircraft to replace the OV-10, but no deal was achieved which President Chavez claimed was due to the result of pressure from the U.S. government.[34] The Venezuelan government has decided not to replace them with new fixed wing aircraft. Rather, the Venezuelan Air Force is replacing them with the Russian made Mil Mi-28 attack helicopter.


Venezuela of wanting to replace weak OV-10 by STRONK A-29 because of superior. but US don't want world to know it, so not let Venezuela buy glorious A-29. so Venezuela decided to replace with OV-10 with russian attack helicopter, which is many shameful for Bronco because shows even helicopters of superior to weak OV-10.

Wikipedia wrote:The A-29 Super Tucano will likely equip the Afghan Air Force in the light attack and advanced training role. The aircraft was declared the winner of the US Light Air Support (LAS) contract competition over the Hawker Beechcraft AT-6B Texan II.[76] However the contract was canceled citing concerns with the procurement process.[77] And rewon in 2013.[78] Under the contract the Afghan military will receive 20 A-29s with the first batch being delivered in 2015.[79] The Pentagon has also proposed to provide to Lebanon a contract for 10 EMB-314.


see? even US thinks A-29 of better choice to Aghanistan that OV-10. notice that OV-10 was not even included in final decision due to many weak and probably not resistings desert sand. only reason the A-29 probably won't into winnings LAAR program is because everyone knows US cannot into adopting foreign equipment. Canberra is exception to rule.

Wikipedia wrote:The aircraft differs from the baseline EMB-312 Tucano trainer aircraft in several crucial respects. It is powered by a more powerful 1,600 Shp Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-68C engine (compared with the 750 Shp powerplant of the EMB-312); has a strengthened airframe to sustain higher g loads and to increase the aircraft's fatigue life (to 18,000–12,000 hours in operational environments); a reinforced landing gear to handle greater takeoff weights with a heavier stores load, now up to 1,550 kilograms (3,300 pounds); Kevlar armour protection; two internal wing-mounted .50 calibre machine guns (with 200 rounds of ammunition each);[8] capacity to carry a variety of ordnance on five weapon hardpoints including Giat NC621 20 mm cannon pods, Mk 81/82 bombs, MAA-1 Piranha air-to-air missiles (AAMs), BLG-252 cluster bombs and SBAT-70/19 or LAU-68A/G rocket pods on its underwing stations; and has a night-vision goggle (NVG)-compatible "glass cockpit" with hands-on-throttle-and-stick (HOTAS) controls; provision for a datalink; a video camera and recorder; an embedded mission-planning capability; forward-looking infrared (FLIR); chaff/flare dispensers; missile approach warning receiver systems (MAWS) and radar warning receivers (RWRs); zero-zero ejection seats.[9] The aircraft structure is corrosion-protected and the side-hinged canopy has a windshield able to withstand any bird strike impact at 270 kts.[10]


see? A-29 many glorious and stronk. can into modern and high performance. can into such hard-hitting armament that could probably take in insurgent tank battalion if insurgent was rich and crazy enough to buy tank battalion. many better than puny Bronco.

A-29 can into max speed of 590 Kph and cruise speed of 520 Kph. fat ugly slow Bronco can only into max speed of 463 Kph. even cruising A-29 can into faster anh thus harder to hit by enemy AA gun.

Tucano is certified with over 130 weapon configurations. is more resistant and better armed than weak Bronco. is simpler and cheaper. is superior.


That's all good and all, but:
Wikipedia wrote:Boeing has recently put together plans internally to build a modernized, improved version of the Bronco, called the OV-10X,[4] to satisfy a possible Air Force requirement for a light attack plane.[5] According to Pentagon and industry officials, while the aircraft would maintain much of its 1960s-vintage rugged external design, the 21st century modernizations would include a computerized glass cockpit, intelligence sensors and smart-bomb-dropping capabilities. Boeing indicates that international interest in restarting production is growing, to compete with other light attack aircraft such as the T-6B Texan II, A-67 Dragon and EMB 314 Super Tucano.

> compete with other light attack aircraft such as the T-6B Texan II, A-67 Dragon and EMB 314 Super Tucano
> compete with EMB 314 Super Tucano

It can carry more, land in a shorter time, fuck your internal 50 cal, and operate at a similar cost.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:16 pm
by Dat cua Tien
Repost, since this was posted too close to Page 500 I think

Would you consider this the minimum needed to be effective, exuberant, or somewhere in the middle? Examples are in the parenthesis, and not necessarily what I am considering. I understand there'd be some munitions crossover that would be a logistics headache. I also understand that realistically, there is often more than one type of aircraft, especially for an older generations that may not be cost effective to replace, but more of that category is still needed so they bought the current gen.

Many questions inbound.

and barring naval version:

large two-seat multirole (F-15E*)
small single seat multirole (F-16E Block 60*)
jet trainer based off prior fighter (Mig-21um)
Interdictor/fighter-bomber/strike fighter (obsoleted by modern large multiroles?)
trainer (Yak-52)
light attack based off the trainer, mostly for COIN
Dedicated ground attack fixed wing, though I understand this to be quite debatable (Su-25/Mig-27)
strategic bomber
AEWAC based off a transport
surveillance/recon aircraft (or UAVs now?)

armored attack helicopter (Eurocopter Tiger)
small attack helicopter (AH-6 Little Bird)
trainer helicopter (MD 530f for congruence)
recon helicopter (uav, again? or send out the Little Bird for the mission?)

strategic airlifter (C-5 Galaxy)
tactical airlifter (Y-8)
smaller transport with STOL capabolity (An-72, V-22?)
really small transport great STOL (An-3 - obsoleted by helicopters?)

helicopter gunship/transport (Mi-35)
medium transport (Mi-8)
large transport (Mi-6/Chinook)

*would you consider it necessary for the two multiroles to use an engine from the same family? It seems nice, but they'd probably be variants and not share many parts anyways.
And would you say it's better to do SEAD with a fighter, a dedicated plane, or a bomber? or "yes" and leave all options open?

What categories would you say that I'm missing?


COIN aircraft? A-7 and A-4 can into napalm and GPU-5/A. :p

Image

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:16 pm
by Estainia
The Esto-Alisonian Imperial Army Air Corps is...

Still under construction which is not a tag because the inventory isn't finished yet, hah!

Heavy/Air Superiority Fighter is the Gu-215, analogous to the F-15 it has severed the IAAC since the 1970s and with the nature of the Empire's speed at upgrading will probably be in the inventory well into the 2000s (It is currently 2019).

Our principle Light/Multirole Fighter is the Hy-299, it has no exact analogy but the Gripen comes to mind, it's an all around workhorse that can run interdiction and intercept, provide close air support and do some light bombing.

At the moment both are constructed by the Istra Aircraft Corporation based out of northern Estainia.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:16 pm
by Premislyd
Oaledonia wrote:
United states of brazilian nations wrote:
A-29 Super Tucano for maximum levels of border patrol and drugdealer/separatist/paramilitary-killing. (AKA COIN)

Brazil, Ecuador, Colombia and Chile approve of this aircraft's efficiency in killing paramilitary organizations.

IIRC, the US navy also ordered a demonstrator and one aircraft was also bought by Academi, former Blackwater.

Remove tucano, enable OV-10 and skymaster


Skyraider >> OV-10

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:52 pm
by The IASM
Spaceplanes and new threads.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:53 pm
by Ea90
cool new thread

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:07 pm
by Nirvash Type TheEND
I will be lurking this thread.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:10 pm
by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
K.u.k. Luftwaffe, all units at a glance. Criticism welcome.
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