The NS Infantry Discussion Thread MkII*

[Gvozdevsk]

M 67 is better, due C4 as the explosive.

But mk2 is cheaper

If you want cheap but also don't want something that's totally obsolete use the RGD-5. If your nation is supposed to be a combination of Bulgaria and Serbia you should already manufacture them in your country. There's also the M75, which was the standard hand grenade for Yugolsavia. Serbia should still manufacture it as well and it would also be way better than the Mk. 2 and maybe better than the RGD-5 as well.

So please, look at what Serbia and Bulgaria already use because most of what they use fit your requirements for cheap and effective.

[Zachganistan]

Tade space for time, within reason. It's just long enough for my support to be within useful range, and then CQB and infantry take back the land with the heavies setting up hardpoints for bases and such.

What support elements do you have at your disposal, and more importantly, how do you expect them to function/to what effect?

Support is mostly artillery and helo aircraft. It's to shock and awe the OpFor and support potentially outnumbered friendlies. The deeper into urban territory the harder it is due to collateral, but modern tech has given substantial advances into percision. On an infantry scale, the Anti-Material platoons have the task of destroying as many vehicles as possible to decrease morale and to S n' A. It's not pleasent seeing everything you climb into get battered by .50 cal fire.

[Aushanit]

Any modernish (around 1940-1960 range) that uses the 6.5x55mm round and can be used in a Sniper/Marksman role?

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

What support elements do you have at your disposal, and more importantly, how do you expect them to function/to what effect?

Support is mostly artillery and helo aircraft. It's to shock and awe the OpFor and support potentially outnumbered friendlies. The deeper into urban territory the harder it is due to collateral, but modern tech has given substantial advances into percision. On an infantry scale, the Anti-Material platoons have the task of destroying as many vehicles as possible to decrease morale and to S n' A. It's not pleasent seeing everything you climb into get battered by .50 cal fire.

Okay, let me just stop you right there. What happens when the fighting is in your cities? Are you just going to pull back a few blocks, start shelling half of Jerusalem and hope for the best?

[Puzikas]

Any modernish (around 1940-1960 range) that uses the 6.5x55mm round and can be used in a Sniper/Marksman role?

A/G M42 Ljungman.

[Zachganistan]

Support is mostly artillery and helo aircraft. It's to shock and awe the OpFor and support potentially outnumbered friendlies. The deeper into urban territory the harder it is due to collateral, but modern tech has given substantial advances into percision. On an infantry scale, the Anti-Material platoons have the task of destroying as many vehicles as possible to decrease morale and to S n' A. It's not pleasent seeing everything you climb into get battered by .50 cal fire.

Okay, let me just stop you right there. What happens when the fighting is in your cities? Are you just going to pull back a few blocks, start shelling half of Jerusalem and hope for the best?

You think I didn't think that through? Jerusalem wouldn't be an immediate target first of all, but if it was, the Holy City has dozens of courtyards that would be used as hospitals, FOBs, and HQ's. Airburst or strafe those areas and that's support.

[Aushanit]

Any modernish (around 1940-1960 range) that uses the 6.5x55mm round and can be used in a Sniper/Marksman role?

A/G M42 Ljungman.

How much better would a Swedish M/41 do in comparison?

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Okay, let me just stop you right there. What happens when the fighting is in your cities? Are you just going to pull back a few blocks, start shelling half of Jerusalem and hope for the best?

You think I didn't think that through? Jerusalem wouldn't be an immediate target first of all, but if it was, the Holy City has dozens of courtyards that would be used as hospitals, FOBs, and HQ's. Airburst or strafe those areas and that's support.

I'm getting sidetracked at this point. This has ultimately led me to two things.

#1 Your entire understanding of warfighting is fucked. I don't mean it in a derogatory fashion, just that you have a lot to learn.

#2 You need a mobile infantry force capable of engaging soft skinned targets and extensive anti-tank capabilities. You're going to be looking at something like

Maneuver element 1
Squad leader
Rifleman/underbarrel
Automatic rifleman

Maneuver element 2
Rifleman/underbarrel
Rifleman/underbarrel
Designated marksman

Weapons element
2IC/assistant gunner
Machine gunner
RPG
RPG ammo bitch

[Zachganistan]

You think I didn't think that through? Jerusalem wouldn't be an immediate target first of all, but if it was, the Holy City has dozens of courtyards that would be used as hospitals, FOBs, and HQ's. Airburst or strafe those areas and that's support.

I'm getting sidetracked at this point. This has ultimately led me to two things.

#1 Your entire understanding of warfighting is fucked. I don't mean it in a derogatory fashion, just that you have a lot to learn.

#2 You need a mobile infantry force capable of engaging soft skinned targets and extensive anti-tank capabilities. You're going to be looking at something like

Maneuver element 1
Squad leader
Rifleman/underbarrel
Automatic rifleman

Maneuver element 2
Rifleman/underbarrel
Rifleman/underbarrel
Designated marksman

Weapons element
2IC/assistant gunner
Machine gunner
RPG
RPG ammo bitch

90% of my experience is from Tom Clancy/ WEB Griffin and my dad, who's a Cold War Vet, so yeah. As for the Weapons element, wouldn't that be a little taxing to have a ATGM in every squad? And what the hell is an automatic rifleman if you already have a SAW gunner? That's a lot of diversity in one squad, making it harder for logistics. This seems to be a basic infantry unit, albeit with a lot of different weapons.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

I'm getting sidetracked at this point. This has ultimately led me to two things.

#1 Your entire understanding of warfighting is fucked. I don't mean it in a derogatory fashion, just that you have a lot to learn.

#2 You need a mobile infantry force capable of engaging soft skinned targets and extensive anti-tank capabilities. You're going to be looking at something like

Maneuver element 1
Squad leader
Rifleman/underbarrel
Automatic rifleman

Maneuver element 2
Rifleman/underbarrel
Rifleman/underbarrel
Designated marksman

Weapons element
2IC/assistant gunner
Machine gunner
RPG
RPG ammo bitch

90% of my experience is from Tom Clancy/ WEB Griffin and my dad, who's a Cold War Vet, so yeah. As for the Weapons element, wouldn't that be a little taxing to have a ATGM in every squad? And what the hell is an automatic rifleman if you already have a SAW gunner? That's a lot of diversity in one squad, making it harder for logistics. This seems to be a basic infantry unit, albeit with a lot of different weapons.

The machine gunner has something along the lines of a belt fed GPMG to establish a base of fire while the maneuver elements... well... maneuver. The automatic rifleman has a heavier version of your nation's service rifle possibly with a drum magazine for on the move suppression. If you really wanted to you might even be able to skate by with one automatic rifleman per maneuver element. The atgm in every squad isn't taxing at all. Besides, if you're dealing with Russian backed anything there going to have a lot of soviet throwaway armor. A looooot.

Never listen to anything that comes from the Tom Clancy universe ever.

[Zachganistan]

90% of my experience is from Tom Clancy/ WEB Griffin and my dad, who's a Cold War Vet, so yeah. As for the Weapons element, wouldn't that be a little taxing to have a ATGM in every squad? And what the hell is an automatic rifleman if you already have a SAW gunner? That's a lot of diversity in one squad, making it harder for logistics. This seems to be a basic infantry unit, albeit with a lot of different weapons.

The machine gunner has something along the lines of a belt fed GPMG to establish a base of fire while the maneuver elements... well... maneuver. The automatic rifleman has a heavier version of your nation's service rifle possibly with a drum magazine for on the move suppression. If you really wanted to you might even be able to skate by with one automatic rifleman per maneuver element. The atgm in every squad isn't taxing at all. Besides, if you're dealing with Russian backed anything there going to have a lot of soviet throwaway armor. A looooot.

Never listen to anything that comes from the Tom Clancy universe ever.

Alright. I'm working on my squad-based ORBAT now in my factbook. Thanks for the help.

[Puzikas]

A/G M42 Ljungman.

How much better would a Swedish M/41 do in comparison?

Its a bolt action rifle, so typically its going to generate a better grouping than the A/G M42, but the M/42 is a pretty accurate rifle, and is self loading, making it better for a Marksman (Designated marksman, rather) role.

[Aushanit]

How much better would a Swedish M/41 do in comparison?

Its a bolt action rifle, so typically its going to generate a better grouping than the A/G M42, but the M/42 is a pretty accurate rifle, and is self loading, making it better for a Marksman (Designated marksman, rather) role.

Thanks for the help, I've got an RP that I need to plan out some weaponry. Would I do alright as a marksmen with a Swedish M/41 and a M/45 Submachine gun as a side weapon for closer engagements?

[The balkens]

Alrighty IDT, I have a question.

Would it make since to adopt the HK-416 as a alternative main service rifle to the G36?

Be mindful, I don't intend on replacing the G36 with the HK-416.

[Aqizithiuda]

Alrighty IDT, I have a question.

Would it make since to adopt the HK-416 as a alternative main service rifle to the G36?

Be mindful, I don't intend on replacing the G36 with the HK-416.

Yes.

[Mozria]

Alrighty IDT, I have a question.

Would it make since to adopt the HK-416 as a alternative main service rifle to the G36?

Be mindful, I don't intend on replacing the G36 with the HK-416.

THe HK416 is pretty much just a G36 mechanism somewhat adapted into an AR/M-16 format.It is apparently less expensive than the G36, doesn't heat up nearly as badly and fixes many of the reliability problems inherent with the M-16 family of weapons. However, the way that the piston interacts with the bolt upon firing can cause it to tip backwards and strike the bottom of the receiver, damaging both over time.

The M416, despite such a minor flaw, is a very good assault rifle to consider versus the G36. It carries all of the same capability within a more modular and slightly smaller platform while maintaining durability and fixing many problems from both families of weapons to which it owes its heritage.

[The balkens]

Alrighty IDT, I have a question.

Would it make since to adopt the HK-416 as a alternative main service rifle to the G36?

Be mindful, I don't intend on replacing the G36 with the HK-416.

Yes.

TBH I was expect a "But why" response.

Thanks, Think of it as what the G43 was to the K98.

Alrighty IDT, I have a question.

Would it make since to adopt the HK-416 as a alternative main service rifle to the G36?


Be mindful, I don't intend on replacing the G36 with the HK-416.

THe HK416 is pretty much just a G36 mechanism somewhat adapted into an AR/M-16 format.It is apparently less expensive than the G36, doesn't heat up nearly as badly and fixes many of the reliability problems inherent with the M-16 family of weapons. However, the way that the piston interacts with the bolt upon firing can cause it to tip backwards and strike the bottom of the receiver, damaging both over time.

Thanks for the advise.

[Imperializt Russia]

Keeping combat loads within 23 kilos is hard. qq

Has anyone managed it (using MT)?

Remove body armour.

5% of your population is in the army. You can't afford body armour. You'll be lucky to give every second guy a steel helmet and a Mosin Nagant.

This rule is still a thing?

There's no rule, but societally this level of military enrolment is poor and/or unsustainable.

Any hoo, would I be good using the mk2 as my standard grenade?

M 67 is better, due C4 as the explosive.
Edited: it's CB as filler.

Better is an arbitrary and debatable point.
Why do you believe its filler composition makes it better? Some studies would suggest that a grenade of half the weight, capable of being thrown accurately at much longer distance, would be a far better combat hand grenade.

Sure, if you live in a first person shooter.

Sarcasm aside, what's wrong with the set up?

Because this isn't how infantry actually operate. Anyone who operates an anti-material weapon is either an EOD officer or special forces. 12.7mm machine guns are now rarely operated by infantry, but by vehicle gunners.

In the US, carbines are issued to the entire force, shotguns are a mission-dependent item, and battle and assault rifles are something that should be issued to the entire force as a service rifle - sometimes with the heavier of the two weapons being issued as a marksman rifle as well.

Actually, that's the entire purpose of the kukri. It is literally a utility knife. It might be descended from a sword, and it might be used as a weapon some times, but the main use for it for several centuries has been a utility knife.

How is something that big supposed to be a utlity knife?

IIRC, it's built for cutting. It's good for beheading animals and functioning as a machete. The weight will probably benefit it in this, as does its curved blade.

My layout is this:
Light infantry(recon/airborne/spec ops) Infantry(marines/GIs/riflemen) Heavy Infantry(At teams, AA teams, MG teams, Sniper Teams, coms)

Your "heavy infantry" has basically described battalion-level supporting arms units.

It's not your turn yet.

I'm trying to help him. Luring the enemy hasn't worked since Vietnam. Radar and intelligence is just to proficient for armies to hide from. Unless you somehow make a plot of land look pleasing to an invading force that sees most of your moves.

That's actually not true. Your opponent will always be relatively simple to play, but so will you to him.
You can lure your opponent into pushing back one of your units, and then use this to draw out his formation and slam an armoured formation directly into his side and destroy his line at this point, routing this unit.
Your armoured and mechanised formations can then take advantage of this and pour through the hole in the line.

The goal will not always be at all points to not yield, or to not stop pressing forwards. Along the length of a line, orders to fall back and to cede and orders to press can be given at the same time to different units, regardless of whether the overall strategy is being on the defensive or on the assault.

[The New Lowlands]

Keeping combat loads within 23 kilos is hard. qq

Has anyone managed it (using MT)?

Remove body armour.

Isn't that a bad idea? I assumed it'd be a good idea to keep soldiers alive for future use.

[Rich and Corporations]

Remove body armour.

I wonder if I should wear a flak jacket day to day. How do flak jackets reduce injuries?

[OMGeverynameistaken]

Body armor is a sign of moral weakness and poor officering. If your soldiers are afraid to stand up and face the enemy directly with nothing but the skill of their commanders and their own personal skill to keep them alive, then your army is worthless and will fold up before properly trained soldiers like some kind of metaphorical damp paper product.

[North Daecon]

By the way, which round is more effective as a standard? I'm kind of stuck between the 5.56x45 NATO and 7.62x51 NATO round.

[Rich and Corporations]

5.5x39mm Warsaw Pact.
Doubles as a carbine round.

[Imperializt Russia]

Remove body armour.

Isn't that a bad idea? I assumed it'd be a good idea to keep soldiers alive for future use.

Well, you want to stay within 23kg, right?

Full heavy body armour like what is currently issued is incredibly heavy, and splinter protection soft body armour can be considered "sufficient". Large calibre rifles and automatic fire will penetrate heavy body armour anyway, as will large explosion fragments and blast injuries.

[Lemanrussland]

By the way, which round is more effective as a standard? I'm kind of stuck between the 5.56x45 NATO and 7.62x51 NATO round.

5.56x45 NATO for your line riflemen, 7.62x51 NATO for marksmen, general purpose machine guns and so on.

5.56x45 (intermediate cartridges in general, really) is a better cartridge for the rifleman when engaging targets within 300 meters, with the exception of barrier penetration. Your units will be able to put more effective fire down range with such weapons. Targets beyond this can be engaged by your designated marksmen and heavier weapons in your weapons squad or weapons platoon. If you are really concerned about penetration and the performance of the 5.56x45, use enhanced ammunition like M855A1 or Mk 262. Mk 262 is suitable out to 600 meters.

The current situation in Afghanistan is not typical for light infantry action. The average range of engagement is way beyond 300 meters because of the terrain, which is why this debate over cartridges and infantry small arms has been going on.

An interesting paper on the subject, if you have the time and desire to read it.

http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA512331