The NS Infantry Discussion Thread MkII*

[Tule]

Keeping combat loads within 23 kilos is hard. qq

Has anyone managed it (using MT)?

Keeping combat loads under 23 Kg is easy.
Deciding which things to give up for less weight is the hard part.

Here's one way to keep combat load under 23 Kg:

• Fatigues, undergarments and webbing: 3 Kg
• Boots: 1.5 Kg
• Helmet: 1 Kg
• Rifle, SKS: 3.9 Kg
• 200 rounds of 7.62x39 in 10 round stripper clips: 3.6 Kg
• Bayonet: 0.25 Kg
• Entrenching tool: 0.7 Kg
• Fragmentation grenade: 0.5 Kg
• Signal flares x2: 0.3 Kg
• Poncho, Sleeping pad, blanket: 2 Kg
• Canteen, 2 liters: 2 Kg
• Med kit: 1 Kg
• Rations for 48 hr: 1 Kg
• Light items: Gun lubricant, sunscreen, dental products, bug spray, extra shoelaces, chlorine tablets and extra socks: 1 Kg

22 Kilograms in total.

[Gvozdevsk]

Would it be possible to fire the 7N21 rounds from the Grach out of any other 9mm pistol or are they loaded too hot for other pistols to handle?

[Yukonastan]

Would it be possible to fire the 7N21 rounds from the Grach out of any other 9mm pistol or are they loaded too hot for other pistols to handle?

Yes, it can be done. Would I do it? No.
Reason being: The 7N21 produces a peak pressure of 41000 PSI. The NATO standard produces 36500 PSI.
Now, the proof pressure for the 9mm NATO is 45000 PSI.
Which means you could fire the 7N21 round through a 9mm NATO handgun. However, you're right close to your proof pressure.
7N21 produces 112% of NATO 9mm pressure, and the proof test is 123% of NATO pressure. The difference between 7N21 and NATO proof test is only 110% (109.7% if you want to be precise). Too close for comfort, really.

[United states of brazilian nations]

Would it be possible to fire the 7N21 rounds from the Grach out of any other 9mm pistol or are they loaded too hot for other pistols to handle?

Yes, it can be done. Would I do it? No.
Reason being: The 7N21 produces a peak pressure of 41000 PSI. The NATO standard produces 36500 PSI.
Now, the proof pressure for the 9mm NATO is 45000 PSI.
Which means you could fire the 7N21 round through a 9mm NATO handgun. However, you're right close to your proof pressure.
7N21 produces 112% of NATO 9mm pressure, and the proof test is 123% of NATO pressure. The difference between 7N21 and NATO proof test is only 110% (109.7% if you want to be precise). Too close for comfort, really.

not to mention proof loads are meant to be fired once (i guess), while combat ammunition would probably be shot quickly and repeatedly. i'm not sure if the barrel would survive repeated, constant very high-pressure explosions in the chamber, but i'm not the kind of person to get estimates right anyways.

[Yukonastan]

Yes, it can be done. Would I do it? No.
Reason being: The 7N21 produces a peak pressure of 41000 PSI. The NATO standard produces 36500 PSI.
Now, the proof pressure for the 9mm NATO is 45000 PSI.
Which means you could fire the 7N21 round through a 9mm NATO handgun. However, you're right close to your proof pressure.
7N21 produces 112% of NATO 9mm pressure, and the proof test is 123% of NATO pressure. The difference between 7N21 and NATO proof test is only 110% (109.7% if you want to be precise). Too close for comfort, really.

not to mention proof loads are meant to be fired once (i guess), while combat ammunition would probably be shot quickly and repeatedly. i'm not sure if the barrel would survive repeated, constant very high-pressure explosions in the chamber, but i'm not the kind of person to get estimates right anyways.

If you were to beef up the barrel and widen the slide to compensate, then ensure it'd proof 7N21 (125% of 41000 PSI is 51250 PSI), it'd work. Glock 19 firing 7N21.

Edit: Why you should never fire pistol powder through a rifle.

[Purpelia]

So? Why should the government care what the individual preferences of its soldiers are? By that logic you could just have everyone show up in what ever clothes they like and with what ever rifle they picked up on ebay.

A sidearm isn't a service rifle or a uniform. It's a backup that many people on this thread argue will probably rarely ever have to be used. If a soldier buys his own pistol, the government saves money. It'd probably be good to have a required caliber though, for sake of ammo commonality.

I understand the notion. I just disagree with the intent under which said notion begins to exist. As in, I understand why if you issue a handgun you would want to do it this way. But I do not understand why the hell you would allow your soldiers a choice in the matter of having one at all. The way I see it it's the job of the army to decide which position requires what equipment. And as for the soldier, if his position requires a handgun than by god he is going to get one, like it or not. And if it does not, than he can't have one regardless of how he feels about it.

EDIT:
I am experimenting with the use of textures instead of colors in flash. And I need your input on which of these two looks better. Both are the same component, just with a different color/texture scheme.
TEXTURED
COLORED

[Yukonastan]

A sidearm isn't a service rifle or a uniform. It's a backup that many people on this thread argue will probably rarely ever have to be used. If a soldier buys his own pistol, the government saves money. It'd probably be good to have a required caliber though, for sake of ammo commonality.

I understand the notion. I just disagree with the intent under which said notion begins to exist. As in, I understand why if you issue a handgun you would want to do it this way. But I do not understand why the hell you would allow your soldiers a choice in the matter of having one at all. The way I see it it's the job of the army to decide which position requires what equipment. And as for the soldier, if his position requires a handgun than by god he is going to get one, like it or not. And if it does not, than he can't have one regardless of how he feels about it.

EDIT:
I am experimenting with the use of textures instead of colors in flash. And I need your input on which of these two looks better. Both are the same component, just with a different color/texture scheme.
TEXTURED
COLORED

Dem textures.

I see your side of things, but my nation isn't like the Helghan empire. Besides, the soldier BUYS the hand gun. It's the soldier's gun. However, he can only have one of three different hand guns by regulations. As I said, it's up to a unit CO to determine whether sidearms are mandatory in his unit.

[Rich and Corporations]

I newer did understand why anyone would feel the need to offer his troops a choice when it comes to equipment. What possible benefit could it have objectively compared to just having one government designed and issued model?

Because the government doesn't have to buy it.

my officers buy their own pistols

if they rely on pistols, then they are making a mistake

[Bratislavskaya]

Because the government doesn't have to buy it.

my officers buy their own pistols

if they rely on pistols, then they are making a mistake

They don't. Any troops that NEED a handgun are issued one. Anyone who WANTS a handgun has the option to buy one IF they want to, if not then they can do without. Of course the handguns have to be government approved for service, and meet a certain criteria.

[Spreewerke]

All personnel are authorized to carry the Glock G17 pistol with 2 spare magazines as their sidearm, though many choose to go without it in favor of carrying extra ammunition for their primary weapon, or other gear.

Glock Glock 17.

Question: Which is better for pistols, heel mag release (like a Makarov) or grip mag release (like a 1911)?

I'd take the Colt any day of the week.

Thumb release is superior, but the heel release is "simpler" in that it is typically connected to the mainspring, thus the magazine release is just built-in rather than being a separate piece that only has one function.

[Bezombia]

All personnel are authorized to carry the Glock G17 pistol with 2 spare magazines as their sidearm, though many choose to go without it in favor of carrying extra ammunition for their primary weapon, or other gear.

Glock Glock 17.

Makarov Pistolet Makarova

[Black Hand]

M86 pursuit deterrent munition rip off to be issued to all infantry Y/N? The idea is that reteating soldiers would.be able to use them to slow enemy advances without hindering their own retreat.

[Aqizithiuda]

Use the Saudi mod of the Patria APC. Problem solved.

This, for the record, is essentially what Triggthiuda, my MT nation, uses.

(not Saudi, UAE)

Looks like my memory was off

[Bulgaria-Serbia]

Is the G36K a good weapon for standard issue or should I look elsewhere

[Fordorsia]

Is the G36K a good weapon for standard issue or should I look elsewhere (Image)

That's one of the ugliest things I've ever seen

The standard G36 would be a better choice.

[3 State Alliance]

Is the G36K a good weapon for standard issue or should I look elsewhere (Image)

That's one of the ugliest things I've ever seen

The standard G36 would be a better choice.

Its a solid weapon but it can't accept a bayonet or rifle grenades, a second vote for basic G36

[Premislyd]

Just use the HK416/417. It's way better than the G36.

[United states of brazilian nations]

Is the G36K a good weapon for standard issue or should I look elsewhere (Image)

That's one of the ugliest things I've ever seen

The standard G36 would be a better choice.

that's because this is a tacticoolifyed G36K. standard G36K is just a G36 with a shorter barrel. brazilian "coast guard" approves.

[Fordorsia]

Just use the HK416/417. It's way better than the G36.

So?

[Bezombia]

Just use the HK416/417. It's way better than the G36.

This, it's mechanically the same but can feed from standard STANAG magazines and is capable of mounting PCAPs.

[Bulgaria-Serbia]

That's one of the ugliest things I've ever seen

The standard G36 would be a better choice.

Its a solid weapon but it can't accept a bayonet or rifle grenades, a second vote for basic G36

Is there any variants that are maybe lighter than standard that would be good standard issue?

[Spreewerke]

Is the G36K a good weapon for standard issue or should I look elsewhere (Image)

I noticed you are "Bulgaria-Serbia". Why not use a Bulgarian AK in 5.56x45mm or 7.62x39mm (or even 5.45x39mm)?


http://rogueadventurer.files.wordpress. ... =640&h=960

[Bezombia]

Its a solid weapon but it can't accept a bayonet or rifle grenades, a second vote for basic G36

Is there any variants that are maybe lighter than standard that would be good standard issue?

Honestly if you're bent against the HK416 just use the AR-18, it's mechanically the same as them both.

[3 State Alliance]

Its a solid weapon but it can't accept a bayonet or rifle grenades, a second vote for basic G36

Is there any variants that are maybe lighter than standard that would be good standard issue?

Its only 8lbs, about standard for any modern rifle, the variant you showed is less then a lb lighter without the add-ons.

[Bulgaria-Serbia]

Also, what would be an effective but cheap body armor set