Worldbuilding Realism Consultation Thread Mk. 4

by **The Akasha Colony** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:12 pm

Fordorsia wrote:
Christian Kingdom Of Appalachia wrote:I wasn't asking for validation, you sperg.

Funny how I got banned for simply explaining how sperg is used, yet this guy gets ignored when he uses it as an insult : D

You're free to report him.

by **Fordorsia** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:13 pm

lolno that rule is potatarded

by **Kyrusia** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:21 pm

Christian Kingdom Of Appalachia wrote:The Akasha Colony

I wasn't asking for validation, you sperg. Only for ways that I could make the concept work.

Christian Kingdom Of Appalachia: *** Warning for flaming and trolling. ***

Let's not devolve back to this.

by **DnalweN acilbupeR** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:08 pm

reapoasting

DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:Regarding the assignment of precinct/district to police officers (may also apply to other categories of civil servants) based on their residence there are 2 main schools of thought:

1. Have officers patrol the same areas that they live in (and probably grew up in). The point is that being from that area makes you more directly implicated/motivated, you know the area better in a number of ways, like for example geographically, know what the usual trouble spots are, how you can get from X to Y and what the shortcuts are, so on and so forth.

2. Have officers patrol other areas than those that they live in. The idea is that a police officer should be as neutral as possible in his actions and in applying the law, and neighborly or other pre-existing relations may interfere with this. Also, it might be the case that living and patrolling in the same general area means that you're easily recognized as a police officer and people know where you live, including some of the same people you're putting behind bars or otherwise acting upon, which could be a safety hazard.

Which one of these approaches do you think is best? Do you think that maybe there should be a mixed approach, so for example for your regular 2-man patrol have 1 local and 1 non-local so there is a balance, or rather e.g. just have local beat cops and reserve "non-locals" for duties such as plainclothes policing where they're supposed not to be recognizable as cops?

by **Crookfur** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:58 pm

I don't think there is a hard and fast "best" solution other than maybe using a mix that teflects the realities of policing diffetent locales.

Ie being part of the community makes a lot more sense in small rural "beats" due both to potential commuting issues and the generally lower crime level such areas tend to experience.

Once you get into suburbs and urban areas then having officers reside outweigh thier operational area makes more sense although it can be more difficult for centrally assigned staff than officers assigned the geographical divisions unless you go the whole hog and force staff to reside in neighbouring jurisdictions.

by **DnalweN acilbupeR** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:34 am

Crookfur wrote:I don't think there is a hard and fast "best" solution other than maybe using a mix that teflects the realities of policing diffetent locales.

Not saying there is, just wanted to see what the peoples do in their nations.

Ie being part of the community makes a lot more sense in small rural "beats" due both to potential commuting issues and the generally lower crime level such areas tend to experience.

I agree.

Once you get into suburbs and urban areas then having officers reside outweigh thier operational area makes more sense although it can be more difficult for centrally assigned staff than officers assigned the geographical divisions unless you go the whole hog and force staff to reside in neighbouring jurisdictions.

Not sure what you're saying here. I don't think forcing staff to live out of town would be a practical or even desirable plan. There's FBI or state police or your country's equivalent for those purposes where you need to have a completely detached observer or enforcer.

In an ideal liberal democracy free of corruption and so on, with fully functional state institutions there is obviously little to no incentive to do this separation because officers are unlikely to let themselves be intimidated by neighboring crims or give in to their (or their other neighbors'/acquaintances') demands or their own personal affinities. However, I think it could be potentially effective in "less fortunate" nations where police are already vulnerable to intimidation and corruption, and living next door to those who might partake in those activities may only exacerbate the problem. Obviously, if the police are corrupt to begin with, simply not living close to them won't be a huge obstacle as those who would really want to "reach" them could do it anyways, if not actually through their neighbors.

The principle is similar to the "don't shit where you eat" practice where, in many countries, police officers or other politically/administratively (or otherwise) influential persons are not taken to trial in whatever court regular folk would be tried in, but instead in a higher court, whether one or more levels higher, possibly depending on the magnitude of the person's influence. Or, in the same level court but in a different jurisdiction. I think that this applies especially to judicial staff such as judges, prosecutors or lawyers. And the same principle may also be applied to the prosecution aspect.

In reality (and unless you live in communism or something) what you'll probably find is that some neighborhoods if not even whole communities (I'm essentially thinking about upper or upper middle class here) will not produce much police officers since their population is usually tied up in other occupations or fields of work if they're working at all. If the lower classes generally have a bad opinion on or are not attracted to police again you'd probably also find that their communities don't put out many cops either. So probably what you'll end up finding in capitalism in general and what probably actually happens IRL in the US and elsewhere is that the guild of cops is mainly dominated by middle class and especially lower-middle class people. If you're not very passionate about being a cop there's probably better options out there financially and otherwise for the average middle class folk than becoming a police officer, if you're at least decently academically inclined. Probably only the very elite ever end up in high ranking positions (such as police chiefs et al) and possibly beyond into politics/public administration and get to pierce the upper-middle class if they weren't there already.

In the ideal world where cops are good and perps are bad and that's the end of it there's also little to no incentive to move officers through precincts in rotation because the more time you spend in the same area, theoretically the better your relationship with the community should get and you should get to know the area "like the back of your hand" as they say, in many ways and not just geographically. You'll already be very well accustomed to all the personal affinities and rivalries that exist in the community (whether between regular people or actual gangs/criminals), you'll generally know who the troublemakers or "at risk" people are so you'll know who to look for, you should be able to instantly spot something that is out of the ordinary, etc. etc. So in many ways it not only makes you a better "beat cop" but even a better "detective" as well. A very strong bond with co-workers should have probably developed by now as well since you've been working together for so long.

But in reality, time can make as much good as it does bad. Cops start overlooking wrongdoings if not full blown crimes of their peers and the people they're supposed to police because they've known each other for such a long time and they have a good relationship. You find out that your local criminals really don't seem such bad guys day to day and you start to develop a liking to them, especially if they keep the neighborhood quiet and make it worth your while. It's a win-win situation after all. Internal affairs becomes a joke and so on till you end up with things such as LAPD's CRASH (I don't even have any idea how long those involved in that case had been working together for and I might just totally be spouting BS, but you get the point).

The point that I'm trying to make is that, even in "advanced democracies", the unwanted still happens and there must be a balance for cops between control/overwatch and developing good relations with the community and each other.

by **Questers** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:55 am

Christian Kingdom Of Appalachia wrote:Also do you really think that France and Germany will stay liberal once the Muslim invaders outbreed the natives and these countries turn Islamic

:seppos:

by **Gallia-** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:03 am

Build a wall and make Indonesia pay for it.

e: Crookfur is right about cops too but I didn't read the wall of text either.

by **Condottieri International** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:12 am

How would nullify a stealth based airforce and heavily stealth based navy?

by **Questers** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:14 am

Condottieri International wrote:How would nullify a stealth based airforce and heavily stealth based navy?

Do they have stealth airfields and stealth ports?

by **Gallia-** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:18 am

AWACS and SURTASS are adequate. B-2 hates moving radars and submarines are already classified by SURTASS by the USN anyway.

by **Condottieri International** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:23 am

Questers wrote:
Condottieri International wrote:How would nullify a stealth based airforce and heavily stealth based navy?
Do they have stealth airfields and stealth ports?

We have underground hangars. How do hide a port?

Just realized I asked the wrong thread lol

by **Gallia-** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:24 am

Under the sea, of course.

by **DnalweN acilbupeR** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:54 pm

How do voluntary/civilian fire, medical or town watch organizations work in your nation?

In RN we have the following:

Auxiliary Fire Service / Auxiliary Medical Service / Auxiliary Police Service (AFS/AMS/APS) - government sanctioned and funded
Volunteer Fire Patrol / Volunteer Medical Patrol / Volunteer Town Patrol (VFP/VMP/VTP) - government sanctioned only
Civilian Fire Watch / Civilian Medical Watch / Civilian Town Watch (CFW/CMW/CTW) - fully civilian

Depending on the jurisdiction, one, two, or all three of the above may exist alongside government emergency services, whose existence is mandatory.

Volunteer and Civilian organizations are funded through donations, typically from the local community. Auxiliary organizations may only receive fully anonymous donations.

When the community is too small to justify separate organizations, they may operate in a combined manner as a Unified Auxiliary Service / Unified Volunteer Patrol / Unified Civilian Watch (UAS/UVP/UCW) and share vehicles, buildings, etc. The government equivalent is a Unified Emergency Service (UES) which combines FRS (Fire and Rescue Service), EMS (Emergency Medical Service) and PD (Police Department).

Apart from these, citizens have the right to freely assemble in other informal organizations. Additionally, there exist private NFP or for-profit organizations providing free or paid services.

by **Halfblakistan** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:11 pm

I have politically radicalized Huguenots taking over the islands during the Napoleonic Wars, specifically during the Atlantic Campaign of 1806. I want the British to have control of us from the end of the Napoleonic Wars to around 1960 so we're not just a bigger Cape Verde.

I know that the Portuguese and English have a strong alliance. So how realistic would it be for the Portuguese to give my country to the British after the British take it back from the French? Maybe it starts with leasing a naval base or something? Maybe the British just annex us?

by **Radictistan** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:09 am

Firefighting in Radictistan is generally a responsibility of local government. Municipalities always have a professional firefighting organization. On the other hand, most Departments (rural/unincorporated areas) have a volunteer organization. These are funded by the Department and members undertake the same training courses as full-time firefighters. Volunteers are compensated for time spent training and on operations.

Voluntarism in security/town watch settings makes the ruling elite nervous so it's not encouraged, much less endorsed.

by **New Valcluse** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:17 am

This is Costa here. Decided to reply using one of my other nations as it's more developed and not an oil shock away from becoming a failed state. That and this nation is a federation which opens up the possibilities for all sorts of bureaucratic shenanigans:

How do voluntary/civilian fire, medical or town watch organizations work in your nation?

I'll break this down by service:

Volunteer fire departments, known as a service d'incendie, are typically found in rural areas in Valcluse. They derive their funding from a combination of allocated taxpayer money from the prefecture, municipal taxes and whatever corporate or private donations the department receives. These largely go towards keeping the station and it's fire engines and other associated vehicles operational, in addition to compensating volunteers for their service. They provide essential firefighting and medical services to rural communities. Training is provided free or charge by the province.

Volunteer medical services are generally limited to volunteer fire departments and even then, only the departments that are capable of providing enough resources to maintain an ambulance. However, federal law mandates that at least one person in a fire engine responding to an incident must be a qualified paramedic, which means that technically all volunteer departments provide some form of volunteer medical assistance.

Volunteer town watch organisations in Valcluse are known officially as sécurité municipale, although the colloquial term for municipal security is vigile. Municipalities can chose whether or not to provide a fully funded police force or partially funded municipal security. The latter essentially comes in two forms: private security contracted by a municipality to carry out the task of a municipal police force, or by volunteers. Vigiles have less powers than municipal police and therefore can really only carry out limited enforcement of laws regarding things like parking, or providing extra security at large events or in places where police forces don't have the resources to patrol. They do have powers of detention, but not arrest. Vigiles are paid volunteers who are compensated for their time spent, with the rates of compensation generally lower than paying wages of police officers or providing contracts for private security companies. Funding for vigiles is usually in the form of donations from businesses or private individuals, with the municipality or prefecture providing limited grants. They are administered by an elected board of community representatives.

by **Taihei Tengoku** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:13 pm

In Taihei Tengoku each commandery is resourced and required to provide for a certain distribution of fire and police stations with permanent personnel by the national police and fire commissions. In the countryside this may just be a small one-room office with a village constable and assistant. Both have Preferred Reserves (i.e. volunteers) from the community that supplement the small permanent staff.

by **DnalweN acilbupeR** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:29 am

I've finally finalized my vehicle emergency lighting colors.

I. RIGHT-OF-WAY-GRANTING LIGHTS

A1. RIGHT-TO-STOP-GRANTING LIGHTS

I.I GOVERNMENT, EMERGENCY SERVICES - approved single beacon color: RED ; PURPLE (SES ONLY)

█I█ - POLICE DEPARTMENT
█I█ - EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICE
█I█ - FIRE & RESCUE SERVICE
█I█ - SPECIAL EMERGENCY SERVICE

A2. RIGHT-TO-STOP-GRANTING LIGHTS (IN SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES)

I.II GOVERNMENT, OTHER - approved single beacon color: BLUE

█I█ - ARMED FORCES
█I█ - NATIONAL GUARD

B. NON-RIGHT-TO-STOP-GRANTING LIGHTS

I.III GOVERNMENT SANCTIONED ORGANISATIONS - approved single beacon color: CYAN

█I█ - AUXILIARY POLICE SERVICE / VOLUNTEER TOWN PATROL
█I█ - AUXILIARY MEDICAL SERVICE / VOLUNTEER MEDICAL PATROL
█I█ - AUXILIARY FIRE SERVICE / VOLUNTEER FIRE PATROL

I.IV COMMUNITY AND PRIVATE ORGANISATIONS - approved single beacon color: GREEN

█I█ - CITIZEN TOWN WATCH / PRIVATE SECURITY NFP/FOR-PROFIT
█I█ - CITIZEN MEDICAL WATCH / PRIVATE MEDICAL NFP/FOR-PROFIT
█I█ - CITIZEN FIRE WATCH / PRIVATE FIRE NFP/FOR-PROFIT

I.V EMERGENCY SERVICES PERSONNEL - approved single beacon color: WHITE

█I█ - PRIVATE VEHICLES OF EMERGENCY SERVICES PERSONNEL

II. NON-RIGHT-OF-WAY-GRANTING LIGHTS

II.I ROAD SAFETY-RELATED - approved single beacon color: NEON YELLOW

█I█ - ROADWORKS/SNOWPLOWS/MUNICIPAL/ETC. (GOVERNMENT OR PRIVATE)

II.II EMERGENCY SERVICES PERSONNEL - approved single beacon color: NEON YELLOW

█I█ - GOVERNMENT AND GOVERNMENT-SANCTIONED ORGANISATIONS - PRIVATE VEHICLES OF PERSONNEL
█I█ - CITIZEN / PRIVATE NFP/FOR-PROFIT-RELATED - PRIVATE VEHICLES OF PERSONNEL

II.III - EMERGENCY VEHICLES - approved single beacon color: NEON YELLOW

█I█ - SECURITY SERVICES-RELATED
█I█ - MEDICAL SERVICES-RELATED
█I█ - FIRE SERVICES-RELATED

III. CONSPICUITY/WARNING LIGHTS

III.I HAZARDOUS MATERIEL TRANSPORT - approved single beacon color: YELLOW

█I█ - vehicles transporting LNG/LPG, radioactive materials, flammable liquids and gasses, hazardous chemical products, etc.

Notes:

The yellow used in emergency lighting is in fact a greenish yellow or neon yellow tint, to better differentiate between emergency lighting and turn signals, which are amber (more reddish), especially seeing how some vehicles have high-mounted or even lightbar-integrated turn signal lights.
Title I lights may only be used on a vehicle while on official duty and on a particular tasking, with the exception of Title I.V lights which may be used by sanctioned emergency services personnel on a private vehicle to reach the site of an incident or get to a station, if called to duty. Permission to use Title I.V lights is given on a case-by-case basis.
Title I lights may be optionally accompanied by white or neon yellow lights with the exception of Title I.V lights.
Using Title I lights grants the user the right of way from other motorists and certain exceptions from the traffic code. Only a government-certified driver may operate a Title I light-equipped vehicle. Such a vehicle is also allowed to use various sirens and low-frequency sirens.
Using Title II lights does not grant the user the right of way from other motorists but does grant some traffic code exceptions, mainly from parking and stopping restrictions, temporary in nature and applicable only when justified. To use Title II lights a driver must pass a basic government certification in order to be able to safely make use of the traffic code exceptions. Such a vehicle is only also allowed to use a reversing-style siren while seeking to avoid excessive public disturbance.
Using Title III lights does not grant the user any exceptions from the traffic code, as their purpose is solely to increase the conspicuity of the vehicles equipping them and to identify them as carrying hazardous loads.

Below is a list of number plates in use in RN (given as background color - lettering color):

by **Ainin** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:21 pm

What happens when the tax-and-spend socialist government builds a giant international airport and suddenly goes broke before the planned subway/train extension could be built?

http://iiwiki.com/wiki/Template:Talon_Airport_BRT

B U S R A P I D T R A N S I T

by **DnalweN acilbupeR** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:54 pm

Ainin wrote:What happens when the tax-and-spend socialist government builds a giant international airport and suddenly goes broke before the planned subway/train extension could be built?

http://iiwiki.com/wiki/Template:Talon_Airport_BRT

B U S R A P I D T R A N S I T

: maximumbrtachieved :

by **Prosorusiya** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:45 pm

Good old BRT... the worst of streetcars and busses all wrapped into one.

Anyhow, a question about civil (ish) vehicles: what do Younguys think of my using RAF-977 vans for my police rather than UAZ-452s? Anybody know if there are reviews of the way both drive? I haven’t heard much good about the RAF-977s successor, the RAF-2203 Latvia, namely it rvpusted badly and had bad handeling, but there isn’t much out there about the older model.

by **Rich and Corporations** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:16 am

The resident expert on vehicles is Sumer / Dostonut Loj, and he has only seen the most vehicles, and hasn't driven any.

by **DnalweN acilbupeR** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:41 am

Prosorusiya wrote:Good old BRT... the worst of streetcars and busses all wrapped into one.

lol r u srs?

Anyhow, a question about civil (ish) vehicles: what do Younguys think of my using RAF-977 vans for my police rather than UAZ-452s? Anybody know if there are reviews of the way both drive? I haven’t heard much good about the RAF-977s successor, the RAF-2203 Latvia, namely it rvpusted badly and had bad handeling, but there isn’t much out there about the older model.

No. You need UAZ for maximum Soviet-ness.

look at how adorable he is :3

by **Purpelia** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:43 am

I know that's not what the text says. But you just have to love a police vehicle with BAN literally written on the side.

Worldbuilding Realism Consultation Thread Mk. 4

Who is online