Worldbuilding Realism Consultation Thread Mk. 4

[Costa Fierro]

Is there any research (collision tests, etc.) confirming this assertion regarding low-floor buses?

. . . it is common sense that repairs are cheaper and bus rider safety is improved when a car crashes under, not in, the bus.

It's dangerous for occupants of the cars if it crashes under. You do realize that? Also, you do realize low floor buses exist because they provide better access for passengers, right?

[Allanea]

. . . it is common sense that repairs are cheaper and bus rider safety is improved when a car crashes under, not in, the bus.

Do you understand that the dangers to buses are not limited to cars running into them?

It would be a simple matter to find out what the results of actual scientific testing are.

Given how mass transit procurement works, and how buses are regulated in most countries, I do not believe that low-floor buses would be procured if they were significantly more dangerous.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

. . . it is common sense that repairs are cheaper and bus rider safety is improved when a car crashes under, not in, the bus.

It's dangerous for occupants of the cars if it crashes under. You do realize that? Also, you do realize low floor buses exist because they provide better access for passengers, right?

Yes. What I was getting at was that raised boarding platforms may be a worthwhile investment compared to kneeling buses or low floor buses assuming they were to be proven less safe than traditional ones.

EDIT: Or perhaps extendable ramps.

[Ainin]

Is there any research (collision tests, etc.) confirming this assertion regarding low-floor buses?

. . . it is common sense that repairs are cheaper and bus rider safety is improved when a car crashes under, not in, the bus.

Only by negligible amounts, as evidenced by the prevalence of the low-floor bus.

[Vitaphone Racing]

This is much more dangerous for the occupants of the BMW.

Nah, they were fine seeing how they got out and fled the scene in a fraction of a second. The safety of bus occupants should be more important than the safety of private motorists IMO.

Then I suggest you do more research rather than looking at one incident. Let's think about this. When a car crashes into a flat face that intersects with the ground, the entire front of the car acts as a giant spring and absorbs the impact. If there's a meter gap between the face and the ground, the front of the car is not going to impact and the first part of the car to take the impact will be the A-pillars and windscreen. Mere centimeters behind that are the occupants.

Whether the car goes under or into the bus is irrelevant to the bus passengers as the same amount of energy, or virtually the same amount, will be transferred. That's simple physics, you can prove that with a basic motion equation. What's also irrelevant is determining which people you should care more about. You can't leave dead bodies lying in the street so one way or another, your country will be paying for the accident. Frankly the choice is an obvious one, you can either have 42 people with minor injuries or 40 people with minor injuries and two fatalities.

Virtually every developed country in the world mandates that modern trucks and buses have a certain degree of underrun protection before they are deemed roadworthy. Even the trains I play with were mandated by the government contract to have underrun protection at the front so they don't cleave whatever they hit in three and derail themselves.

[Lompa]

I am working on a center right party for my politics, but what is a good name?

The part is generally conservative, but they are pacifist, pro- drugs, and support secularized education.

[Vitaphone Racing]

I am working on a center right party for my politics, but what is a good name?

The part is generally conservative, but they are pacifist, pro- drugs, and support secularized education.

Boring Party of Lompa? United Stoners of Lompa?

Centre-right parties usually call themselves Conservative, Democratic or Liberal. Pick one of those three and insert in one of the blanks to make a name

______ Party of Lompa

Lompa ______ Party

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

If anyone speaks Italian I would greatly appreciate it if you could translate the STREAM article for me. Google Translate is less than satisfactory.



This is pretty intriguing as there are no overhead cables so I assume it's essentially a power and return rail isolated from each other?

It has been apparently converted into Tramwave

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

I am working on a center right party for my politics, but what is a good name?

The part is generally conservative, but they are pacifist, pro- drugs, and support secularized education.

Sounds like my kind of party

conservative (as in right-wing) economically?

I once saw a really catchy slogan here on NS "not left, not right, forward"

edit:

Nah, they were fine seeing how they got out and fled the scene in a fraction of a second. The safety of bus occupants should be more important than the safety of private motorists IMO.

Then I suggest you do more research rather than looking at one incident. Let's think about this. When a car crashes into a flat face that intersects with the ground, the entire front of the car acts as a giant spring and absorbs the impact. If there's a meter gap between the face and the ground, the front of the car is not going to impact and the first part of the car to take the impact will be the A-pillars and windscreen. Mere centimeters behind that are the occupants.

Whether the car goes under or into the bus is irrelevant to the bus passengers as the same amount of energy, or virtually the same amount, will be transferred. That's simple physics, you can prove that with a basic motion equation. What's also irrelevant is determining which people you should care more about. You can't leave dead bodies lying in the street so one way or another, your country will be paying for the accident. Frankly the choice is an obvious one, you can either have 42 people with minor injuries or 40 people with minor injuries and two fatalities.

Virtually every developed country in the world mandates that modern trucks and buses have a certain degree of underrun protection before they are deemed roadworthy. Even the trains I play with were mandated by the government contract to have underrun protection at the front so they don't cleave whatever they hit in three and derail themselves.

I understand the basic physics of it. The accident that I witnessed had the car pretty much "hug" or mold around the rear of the bus, as the front was totaled but the rear engine door (rear-engine bus) was apparently intact, even ding-free. It wasn't exactly a close-up shot, but the kind of damage you would have expected in sheet metal EDIT: or composite or whatever material is used for bus bodies these days should have been visible from far away. So the BMW either A) did not hit it there or B) there is engine protection integrated into the bodywork itself (or there is a flat-faced or very closely knit understructure) .

I didn't get a good look at the bumper but the rear on the whole seemed intact , and in any case inconsistent with the damage you'd expect after looking at the BMW assuming that it hadn't plunged underneath.

The weird thing is that, as I mentioned before, the front was totaled, so the BMW didn't run under the bus and hit it cab-first. I can only assume that the bus had a really hard rear bumper and the BMW hit that and then plunged underneath.

[Yukonastan]

If anyone speaks Italian I would greatly appreciate it if you could translate the STREAM article for me. Google Translate is less than satisfactory.

(Image)

This is pretty intriguing as there are no overhead cables so I assume it's essentially a power and return rail isolated from each other?

It has been apparently converted into Tramwave

Probably Something similar to APS. After reading the PDF, it's basically the exact same system.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

If anyone speaks Italian I would greatly appreciate it if you could translate the STREAM article for me. Google Translate is less than satisfactory.

(Image)

This is pretty intriguing as there are no overhead cables so I assume it's essentially a power and return rail isolated from each other?

It has been apparently converted into Tramwave

Probably Something similar to APS. After reading the PDF, it's basically the exact same system.

Doesn't APS return power through the tracks?

[Yukonastan]

Probably Something similar to APS. After reading the PDF, it's basically the exact same system.

Doesn't APS return power through the tracks?

I did say it's basically the exact same system.
However, it turns out I was wrong. This is more traditional slot trolley track that's continually live, with the covers magnetically raised under the train, as opposed to the tracks being magnetically turned live when the train is over them which is APS.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Doesn't APS return power through the tracks?

I did say it's basically the exact same system.
However, it turns out I was wrong. This is more traditional slot trolley track that's continually live, with the covers magnetically raised under the train, as opposed to the tracks being magnetically turned live when the train is over them which is APS.

That sounds clever and I presume simpler to pull off than APS. I can't imagine how it could be done with a continuous rail however so I presume it's segmented?

EDIT: I don't understand how the "energizing" part works in APS, is each segment individually connected to power lines?

[Yukonastan]

I did say it's basically the exact same system.
However, it turns out I was wrong. This is more traditional slot trolley track that's continually live, with the covers magnetically raised under the train, as opposed to the tracks being magnetically turned live when the train is over them which is APS.

That sounds clever and I presume simpler to pull off than APS. I can't imagine how it could be done with a continuous rail however so I presume it's segmented?

Segmented busbar cover.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

That sounds clever and I presume simpler to pull off than APS. I can't imagine how it could be done with a continuous rail however so I presume it's segmented?

Segmented busbar cover.

Interesting. Thanks for the help. I've just recently started researching public transportation so sorry for being a noob lol

[The Akasha Colony]

I did say it's basically the exact same system.
However, it turns out I was wrong. This is more traditional slot trolley track that's continually live, with the covers magnetically raised under the train, as opposed to the tracks being magnetically turned live when the train is over them which is APS.

That sounds clever and I presume simpler to pull off than APS. I can't imagine how it could be done with a continuous rail however so I presume it's segmented?

EDIT: I don't understand how the "energizing" part works in APS, is each segment individually connected to power lines?

Just use an induction system with no actual physical contact and the power system underground. With no need for contact, you can completely cover the live electrical elements.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

I've been thinking about a number of "add-ons" to a BRT system:

• Using colored lights and LED matrix in stations and buses to ensure quick and consistent embarking and disembarking times. The LED matrix would display ETA to the next station and after arriving, time left for disembarking. As a more intuitive measure, a blue light would signal an upcoming station, green would signal "clear to disembark" , yellow would signal "disembark quicker, bus about to leave" and red would signal "bus is leaving, stay clear of doors" . Same would go for embarking. EDIT: Another thing you could do is install rider counters that automatically show a warning and/or closes the doors when X number of people are on the bus to prevent overcrowding.
• Controlling access both on entering and exiting stations to enforce fares. This would require fully enclosed stations and gates adjacent to each bus door which would open only when a bus is at the station (to prevent people from entering or exiting the station) . Assuming you do not have a card or other electronic means of payment, you buy a ticket from outside the station, put the ticket in the faregate, pass through, take the ticket back, and prepare to board the bus. After arriving at your desired station you have to pass through another faregate to exit the station. You put in the same ticket and if the time and/or location is "wrong" (e.g.: you took a more expensive route you didn't pay for and/or "loitered around" using the route you payed for but did so multiple times) the faregate will not allow you to exit until you pay a fine or, assuming the system is smart enough to figure it out, the cost difference (+ a small penalty possibly) . This way you're not only making stations safer and more secure and enforcing fares, but also enticing paying customers to leave stations immediately or at least shortly after arriving at their destination, thus preventing loitering and crowding. After this the ticket is stored in the faregate for recycling and minimizing littering.
• Using "solar road stud" -style signaling at intersections for increased safety and compliance for the bus lane (true BRT has physically separated dedicated lanes but this doesn't work in intersections for obvious reasons) . This is what I'm talking about:
  
  
  however these wouldn't actually be "solar road studs" , assuming you want to use them during daytime as well, as they are designed to charge their batteries during the day and only turn on at night (so even if they were to be on during the day they would be too weak to be visible in daytime) . They would essentially be wired lights of similar shape and durability (to allow vehicles to pass over them easily and without damaging them) , or could even be embedded into the road to offer a flush road surface. And they would work like traffic lights basically, e.g. bus lanes are lit up with red and private motor lanes with green etc.
• Traffic light synchronization. AFAIK at the present this is pretty much limited to the bus sending out signals to make the green traffic signal come on a tad quicker or turn off a tad late. But instead of this perhaps it would be better to try and mold the movement of the bus after general traffic and not the other way around (or at least have a give and take thing) . A more advanced system could be implemented using GPS which would fine tune operation (e.g. spend more or less time at stations, accelerate or decelerate) , which, along with the embark/disembark consistency solution would ensure the bus is perfectly synchronized to green signals. This would offer better consistency (e.g. for traffic lights that display time) and would integrate better with traffic control systems that mold after traffic flow. It could even go as far as prioritizing according to the number of people waiting at upcoming stations. All of this data could then also be used for figuring out fuel efficient decisions, so in the end you have the best compromise between traffic interference, overall speed and fuel consumption, which should make everyone happier (other traffic, bus riders and the operator, respectively) .

..but then of course none of this makes any sense if you can have grade separation for the same cost.

EDIT: And obviously another thing to do would be to go fully electric somehow. However, non-autonomous solutions would offer reduced flexibility and blur the lines regarding initial cost and intrusiveness between buses and other, more infrastructure-dependent modes of transit such as trams. So IMO an autonomous or at least dual-mode solution would hold truer to the benefits of the bus.

[Costa Fierro]

I am working on a center right party for my politics, but what is a good name?

The part is generally conservative, but they are pacifist, pro- drugs, and support secularized education.

Fuerza Democrática.

[Ainin]

That seems rather complicated for no real purpose.

1) Why preset boarding times? Those should be flexible. A granny with a wheelchair could take longer than any preset time could allow for. And really, a PA system reading "attention, we are closing the doors" would be more user-friendly than a blinking red lightbulb. And a rider counter system really isn't practical. Unless you invested massively in advanced systems with extremely powerful cameras, counting the five people, two babies in a carriage and service dog entering at the same time from a door is a highly difficult task for a computer.

2) That sounds fine, but make sure your stations aren't too small. Exit fare gates tend to cause ridiculous amounts of crowding, judging from Beijing.

3) I don't really see why you need that. If your bus line is segregated from the rest of the lanes and clearly identified, nobody would really go in it or obstruct it.

4) Traffic light synchronisation is always a good idea.

If you're worried about the capability of trams, just get a trolleybus. Most modern ones can be removed from their cables and drive on their own power (for a few minutes) anyways.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

That seems rather complicated for no real purpose.

1) Why preset boarding times? Those should be flexible. A granny with a wheelchair could take longer than any preset time could allow for. And really, a PA system reading "attention, we are closing the doors" would be more user-friendly than a blinking red lightbulb. And a rider counter system really isn't practical. Unless you invested massively in advanced systems with extremely powerful cameras, counting the five people, two babies in a carriage and service dog entering at the same time from a door is a highly difficult task for a computer.

2) That sounds fine, but make sure your stations aren't too small. Exit fare gates tend to cause ridiculous amounts of crowding, judging from Beijing.

3) I don't really see why you need that. If your bus line is segregated from the rest of the lanes and clearly identified, nobody would really go in it or obstruct it.

4) Traffic light synchronisation is always a good idea.

If you're worried about the capability of trams, just get a trolleybus. Most modern ones can be removed from their cables and drive on their own power (for a few minutes) anyways.

1) She shouldn't because there would be (almost) gap-free and level boarding ; yeah, and similar systems already exist ; you could have a non-fare, high-speed "faregate" (turnstile) which rotates freely adjacent to each bus door
2) This fare enforcement scheme should at least eliminate the loitering factor.
3) Just as an added safety and compliance measure. You don't need to go all the way and do what I suggested there and use wired, embedded lights - a more cost efficient solution would be to use regular solar road studs with multiple colors that incorporate some sort of control system (perhaps low-power radio) so they're synched to the traffic lights. This would obviously only work at night, however (which is still good) .
4) yep

I don't really like non-autonomous buses myself, and I especially dislike overhead lines for aesthetics. An interesting new development is the so-called capa vehicle which uses capacitors instead of batteries. These require frequent stops (which isn't a problem with a bus obviously) but recharge much quicker than batteries, so essentially a capa-only bus would be a semi-autonomous system. This could be hooked up to e.g. a diesel or natural gas engine in a series-hybrid arrangement either as a backup or to additionally allow longer distances between stations and/or travel non-electrified-station routes. It would offer greater flexibility and possibly more flexible and cheaper infrastructure compared with trams or trolleybuses.

[Kouralia]

So, the rank insignia for my composite not!Security Service/Secret Intelligence Service/Torchwood Institute.

I'm thinking of colouring them by division/department, but not sure which colours to apply for which.

• Operations: Everything from Armed Security at the gates to the Intelligence Office's car park, through the tactical team arresting the international arms dealer, to the suited and sunglasses wearing gentlemen hunting down suspected dangerous and illegal magitech. Sub-divided into 'Security' and 'Investigation'. These are the ones who 'get things done', in the sense of breaking heads, infiltrating other nations (except the Exo-Terran office. That lot's a joke. <.< ) and doing the field agent stuff like filling in incessant forms.
• Administrative: The people who get much of the paperwork etc. done throughout the work day, and the most 'civilian' of the employees. Not subdivided officially.
• Communications: those whose job is to locate, retrieve, decipher and interpret digital evidence.
• Science and Technology: Everything from the scientists working on synthesising energy weapons based on those retrieved from alien civilisations to the evidence SOCOs applying finger print powder to a cattle prod found in a basement recently used as a holding cage by slavers. Sub-divided far too numerously to recount here.

Operations I'm thinking will be dark red. For the others I've got White, Green, Blue, Purple, and really any colour except yellow/gold and silver to chose from. Any justification for why you'd give them that colour, and I'll think about which to assign them to based on what responses I get.

[Newanderthals]

I have created a paleoconservative political party. Even though it is right- wing I named it the Liberal Party because they want to change the nation from its neoconservative history. Would it make since to call it that, or should I just call the Conservative Party.

The neoconservative party is called the Nationalist Party.

[Darston]

How does a principality differ from a kingdom, other than being ruled by a prince/princess?

[Costa Fierro]

How does a principality differ from a kingdom, other than being ruled by a prince/princess?

That's the only difference. You can effectively have the trappings of a kingdom without having a king as regent.

[Ainin]

I have created a paleoconservative political party. Even though it is right- wing I named it the Liberal Party because they want to change the nation from its neoconservative history. Would it make since to call it that, or should I just call the Conservative Party.

The neoconservative party is called the Nationalist Party.

I don't see why it couldn't be called the Liberal Party. Most liberal parties are centre-right anyways.