Worldbuilding Realism Consultation Thread Mk. 4

[Greater Allidron]

I left out the part where the nobles only make up a minority portion of my quadicameral legislature.

3/4ths majority of the assembly is needed to veto the Emperor's bill.

Imperial Assembly of Allidron: 837 total seats

98 imperial appointments

227 nobles

311 proportionally elected representatives

201 economic interest seats (WIP)

So essentially I could achieve land reform during the Second World War when over 75% of my country was occupied by foreign powers.

[The Akasha Colony]

I left out the part where the nobles only make up a minority portion of my quadicameral legislature.

3/4ths majority of the assembly is needed to veto the Emperor's bill.

Imperial Assembly of Allidron: 837 total seats

98 imperial appointments

227 nobles

311 proportionally elected representatives

201 economic interest seats (WIP)

So essentially I could achieve land reform during the Second World War when over 75% of my country was occupied by foreign powers.

I'm not sure you understand what the "cameral" part of "quadricameral" means.

"Quadricameral" would mean that you have four separate legislative assemblies, not that the people are selected or elected via four different means. You appear to only have a single "Imperial Assembly," which would make it a unicameral legislature.

Not like it matters that much. You're fixating too much on the wrong aspects of reform. Wartime is probably the worst time to be bothering with any serious land reform. You have other pressing concerns, especially if three-quarters of your country is under foreign occupation.

[The Soodean Imperium]

In a modern economy I question the role of land reform, or even land in general.

There's only very little money to be made in being a small farmer, no matter how hard you try, unless you're growing illegal drugs I guess. Splitting up the land that is owned by major nobles into lots of tiny little lots will not really achieve anything for te people who will own the farms, and it is likely that within a decade or two the land will end up consolidated again.

Land reform in the context of an industrializing economy (or by modern do you mean already developed?) is really more about absence than presence. If the productivity correlation holds true and there are good distribution mechanisms in place, you might get marginally more grain from a given acreage, and as limited as a small farmer's oppotunities are they're still better than his opportunities as a hired hand on a stagnant plantation.

But the real benefit of land reform is that there is no longer a politically powerful interest group which can buy off local governments in order to preserve the current status quo. Small farmers can't lobby the government to focus on subsidizing crops instead of steel, nor can they do much to oppose industrial development in their area, even when it's dropped down on top of their land with nominal compensation. Before there was the Oil Curse, there was the Sugar Curse, and its effects can still be traced in regressions today.

Given that Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan all underwent fairly aggressive land reform around 1945-1950, I'm inclined to believe that the absence of strong landed interests is a necessary condition for sustained industrial upgrading.

Wartime is probably the worst time to be bothering with any serious land reform. You have other pressing concerns, especially if three-quarters of your country is under foreign occupation.

Actually, foreign occupation can be a great time for land reform - depending on the circumstances. US authorities accelerated and formalized land reform in South Korea, 1950 due to fears that an oppressed peasantry would sympathize with the Communists; similar fears motivated land reform in postwar Japan and post-flight Taiwan/RoC. Another possibility is that advancing enemy forces give land to the tiller as they advance, and your forces don't put landlords back in place as they retake that land, which was another factor at work in Korea.

This is probably specific to Communist enemies though. And if landed nobles are the foundation of the regime's support base then yes, the last thing you want to do is undermine them.

The financial demand of sustaining such a prolonged and serious modern conventional war might also force the government to force the wealthy to pay their share, which is one of the reasons we see income and inheritance taxes ratcheting up during WWI and WWII and taking another few decades to sink back down again. Full land redistribution is unlikely but it might tip the postwar order more heavily in favor of non-aristocratic interests.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

"Anti-partisan" and "counter-commando" is just code for "fewer armaments and inferior carriers". The National Gendarmerie are the only gendarmerie/internal troops unit I'm aware of that had something approximating a tank and it was basically a generic European armored car to replace the AML 60s. At least it could kill tanks, though. Most gendarmeries would be lucky to stop a mechanized infantry platoon, but a competently driven BTR-60 (or LAV-150) will put a Special Forces ODA (GRU Spetsnas), SEAL platoons (PDSS), or Al-Qaeda in a world of hurt to varying degrees.

Though I guess the reason that the Gendarmerie had VBC-90s was really to kill the BMDs and ASU-85s that would form the bulk of armored support for the VDV. Considering their role would be broadly similar to many other military internal security troops in wartime i.e. protection of vital national infrastructure, destruction of enemy special forces and airlanding troops, and rear area security, that seems a reasonable assumption.

The only other option seems to be 40mm AGLs, unless the MVD was packing T-62s or something, but that seems unlikely since the SEALs and Green Berets don't drive around in tanks.

I personally give my police a relatively limited number of 40mm GLs and various disposable and reusable rocket launchers to handle the odd narcotank, technical or armored bulldozer that they may come across.

[Gallia-]

Training to use disposable launchers is an expensive waste of money.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Training to use disposable launchers is an expensive waste of money.

It goes without saying that not every random police officer is trained in using one. They're practically for like SWAT.

[The Soodean Imperium]

http://iiwiki.com/wiki/Public_Housing_i ... n_Imperium

New article, possibly rushed but I had time to spare today so I wanted to make sure I got the approach right. I tried to follow Gallia and Questers's advice by focusing on a sub-topic (again, this began life as a section of "Housing in the Soodean Imperium" which also mixed in walls of text on traditional home design) and keeping each paragraph to about 2-4 sentences that focus on a main point. I also added bullets and a table to break up the wall of text, and sidebar images for decoration.

Does this address most of the problems in the last one? Is there anything else I should work on, stylistically speaking?

[Greater Allidron]

I left out the part where the nobles only make up a minority portion of my quadicameral legislature.

3/4ths majority of the assembly is needed to veto the Emperor's bill.

Imperial Assembly of Allidron: 837 total seats

98 imperial appointments

227 nobles

311 proportionally elected representatives

201 economic interest seats (WIP)

So essentially I could achieve land reform during the Second World War when over 75% of my country was occupied by foreign powers.

I'm not sure you understand what the "cameral" part of "quadricameral" means.

"Quadricameral" would mean that you have four separate legislative assemblies, not that the people are selected or elected via four different means. You appear to only have a single "Imperial Assembly," which would make it a unicameral legislature.

Not like it matters that much. You're fixating too much on the wrong aspects of reform. Wartime is probably the worst time to be bothering with any serious land reform. You have other pressing concerns, especially if three-quarters of your country is under foreign occupation.

You know what, you have a point. I should probably call it a unicameral legislature.

[The Akasha Colony]

http://iiwiki.com/wiki/Public_Housing_in_the_Soodean_Imperium

New article, possibly rushed but I had time to spare today so I wanted to make sure I got the approach right. I tried to follow Gallia and Questers's advice by focusing on a sub-topic (again, this began life as a section of "Housing in the Soodean Imperium" which also mixed in walls of text on traditional home design) and keeping each paragraph to about 2-4 sentences that focus on a main point. I also added bullets and a table to break up the wall of text, and sidebar images for decoration.

Does this address most of the problems in the last one? Is there anything else I should work on, stylistically speaking?

IMO, from a formatting perspective, choosing a consistent image size is helpful. I prefer 250px personally for horizontal images, which it looks like you've also used in your main article already.

[Questers]

http://iiwiki.com/wiki/Public_Housing_in_the_Soodean_Imperium

New article, possibly rushed but I had time to spare today so I wanted to make sure I got the approach right. I tried to follow Gallia and Questers's advice by focusing on a sub-topic (again, this began life as a section of "Housing in the Soodean Imperium" which also mixed in walls of text on traditional home design) and keeping each paragraph to about 2-4 sentences that focus on a main point. I also added bullets and a table to break up the wall of text, and sidebar images for decoration.

Does this address most of the problems in the last one? Is there anything else I should work on, stylistically speaking?

Excellent! This is what I would consider a first-class wikipedia article.

Now put on == See also ==
[[Category:The Soodean Imperium]]

I agree with Akasha btw. 250px is a good standard size.

edit: one really autistic point. Wikipedia page names follow common/proper noun distinction. It should be Public housing in the Soodean Imperium. The opening line already recognises this, so there you are.

[The Soodean Imperium]

http://iiwiki.com/wiki/Public_Housing_in_the_Soodean_Imperium

New article, possibly rushed but I had time to spare today so I wanted to make sure I got the approach right. I tried to follow Gallia and Questers's advice by focusing on a sub-topic (again, this began life as a section of "Housing in the Soodean Imperium" which also mixed in walls of text on traditional home design) and keeping each paragraph to about 2-4 sentences that focus on a main point. I also added bullets and a table to break up the wall of text, and sidebar images for decoration.

Does this address most of the problems in the last one? Is there anything else I should work on, stylistically speaking?

Excellent! This is what I would consider a first-class wikipedia article.

Thank you! I'm glad to see that I solved the issue.

Now put on == See also ==
[[Category:The Soodean Imperium]]

I really need to figure out how to make a "[Country] topics" box...

I agree with Akasha btw. 250px is a good standard size.

IMO, from a formatting perspective, choosing a consistent image size is helpful. I prefer 250px personally for horizontal images, which it looks like you've also used in your main article already.

Is this convention, or just opinion? Because personally I feel that some variation in image size looks better than having everything in a uniform column at the same width.

I also realized that I'm viewing this on a 1920x1080 screen, so 250px looks rly tiny for me but these are probably enormous images for everyone else

edit: one really autistic point. Wikipedia page names follow common/proper noun distinction. It should be Public housing in the Soodean Imperium. The opening line already recognises this, so there you are.

...right. I should have noticed that.

Too late to fix it here without a superfluous redirect, but I'll make sure to do this from now on.

[The Akasha Colony]

Is this convention, or just opinion? Because personally I feel that some variation in image size looks better than having everything in a uniform column at the same width.

I can't say that 250px is convention on IIWiki, since there basically aren't any conventions on IIWiki. But standard photo widths are convention on Wikipedia. If you look at a few random samples, you'll notice that horizontal images of "conventional" proportions are all of the same size. In fact, if you look at the wikicode, the current implementation actually removes the need to specify a width at all for most images; they are automatically sized to the default width (200px). Only images that are not to be displayed at the standard width (certain maps, very wide images, infobox images etc.) deviate from this convention. IIWiki has this functionality too but the default width seems to be a measly 100px or thereabouts and IMO this is way too small.

I also realized that I'm viewing this on a 1920x1080 screen, so 250px looks rly tiny for me but these are probably enormous images for everyone else

1080p screens aren't exactly rare. I've used one or another for the last ten years and all of my IIWiki articles are optimized for 1080p viewing.

The pictures honestly look really big anyway even for me, especially the first one at the top which seems to dominate the header. I suppose a good rule of thumb is that whatever size you pick to standardize on, it shouldn't be larger than something you'd put into an infobox like on a military article or something. When they get too big, they start distracting from the text and dominating the section and when they vary in size they can get distracting (at least to me) because people may start wondering why one image is larger than another; is one photograph of public housing more important than another? Is there something in particular we're supposed to see at a glance in these large photos that justifies their size?

Or is it just that no attention was paid to standards and conventions? Long-time Wikipedians treat adherence to standards and conventions like religious commandments and will often judge each other on uniformity of format and style. I'm not meaning to be rude or insulting or anything, but when I see large images of different sizes on an article, it always gives a hint of sloppiness in my mind, as if the author couldn't be bothered to apply some standard formatting and style guidelines. I know in your case it was a conscious decision and not an omission of laziness, but it's a style that is most often seen coming from those authors who don't know or don't care how to properly format.

I really need to figure out how to make a "[Country] topics" box...

You can just take an existing one and pick apart the table code. The indentations in Questers' table code for sub-boxes makes it easier to read, unlike mine which doesn't have any indentations.

And I second Questers' suggestion of a ==See also== section at the end, and of course categorizing. Visually, it helps close out the article rather than having it just abruptly end right there, especially for anyone used to reading real Wikipedia articles, which usually have these sections. It also helps tie the wiki together which IMO IIWiki could use some help with since it's really fragmented.

I've always had half a mind to try starting a wikiproject to try to create some standard formatting guidelines for specific categories like military equipment or w/e.

[Prosorusiya]

I've noticed that Internal Ministry troops in both Ukraine & Russia have been conspicuously better prepared\preforming than the actual Army, does anybody know why this would be the case? I didn't think they had particularly better men or equipment, so is it just that the Army is only really mobilized when there is a war on, and thus internal troops are better prepared on a moments notice?

[Austrasien]

I've noticed that Internal Ministry troops in both Ukraine & Russia have been conspicuously better prepared\preforming than the actual Army, does anybody know why this would be the case? I didn't think they had particularly better men or equipment, so is it just that the Army is only really mobilized when there is a war on, and thus internal troops are better prepared on a moments notice?

Interior troops are quite often veterans who have already completed their mandatory military service.

[Prosorusiya]

Ah, I see. I guess that make sense... why wouldn't they just become officers in the regular Army, though? Do they just not want to bother with the extra study and cost of OCS?

[Purpelia]

Ah, I see. I guess that make sense... why wouldn't they just become officers in the regular Army, though? Do they just not want to bother with the extra study and cost of OCS?

1. Not everyone can be an officer. Just like not everyone can be a CEO or a painter or a soldier. It takes a certain type of person and skill set just like everyone else. And just being a good soldier does not necessarily make you good officer material.

2. There is newer a need for a huge influx of officers anyway.

[Allanea]

Would it be feasible, in a country with first-world infrastructure, to produce really awful (in terms of taste) alcohol for a cost of $2 per litre or so, and have it be more or less safe to drink? I'm assuming at this point it's just ethyl alcohol, some water, and some food coloring.

[Austrasien]

Ah, I see. I guess that make sense... why wouldn't they just become officers in the regular Army, though? Do they just not want to bother with the extra study and cost of OCS?

Because men who are eligible to become officer and interested in a military career generally do that immediately. They do not need to serve as conscripts first and there is no particular benefit in doing so.

[Austrasien]

Would it be feasible, in a country with first-world infrastructure, to produce really awful (in terms of taste) alcohol for a cost of $2 per litre or so, and have it be more or less safe to drink? I'm assuming at this point it's just ethyl alcohol, some water, and some food coloring.

Yes.

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/prices.html

E85 (51-83% ethanol depending on the time of year) ethanol fuel has an average retail price of 54 cents a liter in the US right now.

[Crookfur]

Would it be feasible, in a country with first-world infrastructure, to produce really awful (in terms of taste) alcohol for a cost of $2 per litre or so, and have it be more or less safe to drink? I'm assuming at this point it's just ethyl alcohol, some water, and some food coloring.

Easy peasy. What Kyiv said and also you can get cheap cider (about 5% abv)for about a pound a litre retail in the UK.

Heck IIRC you can get actual drinkable wine for that kind of price in the US

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Shaw_wine

[Dostanuot Loj]

Would it be feasible, in a country with first-world infrastructure, to produce really awful (in terms of taste) alcohol for a cost of $2 per litre or so, and have it be more or less safe to drink? I'm assuming at this point it's just ethyl alcohol, some water, and some food coloring.

You're literally describing the Colt 45. A 40 ounce costs around $2 depending on the state. Even in alwaysmoreexpensiveandcontrolled Canada it's under $5 Canadian.

[Allanea]

Can you do this with hard liquor, as I described? I am envisioning it would ship in GIANT containers at retail, where you'd just order a huge bunch of it at $10 and get loldrunk and destroy your liver.

[The Soodean Imperium]

Is this convention, or just opinion? Because personally I feel that some variation in image size looks better than having everything in a uniform column at the same width.

I can't say that 250px is convention on IIWiki, since there basically aren't any conventions on IIWiki. But standard photo widths are convention on Wikipedia. If you look at a few random samples, you'll notice that horizontal images of "conventional" proportions are all of the same size. In fact, if you look at the wikicode, the current implementation actually removes the need to specify a width at all for most images; they are automatically sized to the default width (200px). Only images that are not to be displayed at the standard width (certain maps, very wide images, infobox images etc.) deviate from this convention. IIWiki has this functionality too but the default width seems to be a measly 100px or thereabouts and IMO this is way too small.

...

The pictures honestly look really big anyway even for me, especially the first one at the top which seems to dominate the header. I suppose a good rule of thumb is that whatever size you pick to standardize on, it shouldn't be larger than something you'd put into an infobox like on a military article or something. When they get too big, they start distracting from the text and dominating the section and when they vary in size they can get distracting (at least to me) because people may start wondering why one image is larger than another; is one photograph of public housing more important than another? Is there something in particular we're supposed to see at a glance in these large photos that justifies their size?

Or is it just that no attention was paid to standards and conventions? Long-time Wikipedians treat adherence to standards and conventions like religious commandments and will often judge each other on uniformity of format and style. I'm not meaning to be rude or insulting or anything, but when I see large images of different sizes on an article, it always gives a hint of sloppiness in my mind, as if the author couldn't be bothered to apply some standard formatting and style guidelines. I know in your case it was a conscious decision and not an omission of laziness, but it's a style that is most often seen coming from those authors who don't know or don't care how to properly format.

I've updated them all to 300px to see how it looks. Personally I do feel they look a bit small this way, but I'm a dull norm-follower so I'll stick to the conventions for fear of being called sloppy in the future.

You can just take an existing one and pick apart the table code. The indentations in Questers' table code for sub-boxes makes it easier to read, unlike mine which doesn't have any indentations.

Noted... I'll look through the table code and start building one of my own. It also seems like an immediate way of setting out what topics I need to work on next.

And I second Questers' suggestion of a ==See also== section at the end, and of course categorizing. Visually, it helps close out the article rather than having it just abruptly end right there, especially for anyone used to reading real Wikipedia articles, which usually have these sections. It also helps tie the wiki together which IMO IIWiki could use some help with since it's really fragmented.

While I agree with this - and ideally would like to add fake citations, etc - I'm not really sure what to put there. This is the only "Public housing in [Nation]" article on iiWiki (hurrah!), and even if it weren't, my RPs and canon are mono-regional which limits the range of pages I can logically link to.

[Dostanuot Loj]

Can you do this with hard liquor, as I described? I am envisioning it would ship in GIANT containers at retail, where you'd just order a huge bunch of it at $10 and get loldrunk and destroy your liver.

The distillation process I understand drives the price up for hard liquors. So really you would then be looking at little more than the alcohol as you said, water, and maybe some flavouring. You wouldn't even need to colour it. But even among budget shitface drinkers, the goal is not to get as drunk as possible as quickly as possible but partly still to enjoy it. So something like the Colt 45 is still probably the way to go.

Of course for just getting shitfaced quick, you could probably sell pure ethyl alcohol in small amounts for super cheap with built in nebulizer as part of the container. Intake of alcohol through the respiratory tract works waaaaaay better than drinking. Something the size of an athsma puffer will get a bunch of people loldrunk several times over, and should be pretty cheap to make.

[Allanea]

Reasoning:

There was a company in Russia that provided alcohol in 5-liter 'jerry cans' [real jerry cans are much bigger] by phone order, for 800 roub/can.

I am wondering if such a thing could exist in Allanea.