Worldbuilding Realism Consultation Thread Mk. 4

[Costa Fierro]

Pretty much what Austrasien said. Crime will always exist. Besides, if there's no crime, what will cops do for a job?

[The Soodean Imperium]

I'm starting to feel like a broken record on this one general point, but one can still discuss ways to reduce the prevalence of the black market while acknowledging that it can never be completely stopped.

No real-life country is completely free of illicit trade, or of crime in general, but some are much better off than others (though economic policy and institutional capacity probably affect this to a greater degree than enforcement techniques do).

[Allanea]

There are also several definitions of a black market.

Do you mean...

a) Activity that is generally legal, but in this case carried out in the informal sector of the economy (e.g. people doing business without the proper permits/taxes, doing so unsafely and without proper legal processes being followed)?

b) Activity that's illegal (that's to say, people dealing in goods and services that are outright prohibited in your country, such as illicit drugs or maybe human trafficking)?

[Chinese Peoples]

I've been thinking of this for a while, is there any way to stop black market? At least minimize it?

I know Black Markets proliferates during chaotic periods or like Great Depressions. Thus, makes it difficult to crack down on them.

Nevertheless, what would you do if you want to stop the Black Market?

Inefficiency on the legal market fuels the black market. The only reason why people would resort to dealing with the black market is due to a demand that the legal market cannot satisfy, for a variety of reasons. Sometimes the entire market is banned by law, and other times only on certain sellers and purchasers. We all agree that there shouldn't be a market for nuclear weapons, but there is, in fact, demand for them; where there is demand, there is supply, hence a market. While the USA may be able to export its nuclear technology, North Korea is not allowed to get them, hence the black market between Iran and North Korea. Of course, when international trade on the high seas is concerned, the definition of "legal" becomes blurry. Most countries recognize treaties as binding and of the same force as laws, but states like North Korea are different.

So, the only real and immediate solution is to legalize every kind of trade, but that's not what a state is set up to do.

[Austrasien]

I'm starting to feel like a broken record on this one general point, but one can still discuss ways to reduce the prevalence of the black market while acknowledging that it can never be completely stopped.

Yes, you arrest people.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

I've been thinking of this for a while, is there any way to stop black market? At least minimize it?

I know Black Markets proliferates during chaotic periods or like Great Depressions. Thus, makes it difficult to crack down on them.

Nevertheless, what would you do if you want to stop the Black Market?

Legalization/decriminalization if it's something that's prohibited.

Tax breaks if it's something that's sin taxed/heavily taxed whatever.

The alternative - harsh punishments and a network of undercover officers/informants to scare any would-be smuggler into not doing it in the first place, and getting rid of those who still do.

[Kouralia]

Do you guys think it's realistic for a legislature to change from:

to:

in an election?

Basically the golds have seen increasing support, and with a charismatic leader and a number of PR coups already in the current Captaincy they're already likely to see a surge in popularity, but I don't know if a rise from third party and 22.2% to senior coalition partner and 48.7% is realistic? The blues are seen as an almost-ersatz version of the bright Reds, with more popular support in a particular region (like SNP to Labour, but without the independence vote), and have basically stolen all the bright Red support in that area. Finally the Dark Reds have similarly ceded much support to the sea greens as they represent a slightly more leftist brand, but without the tarnish of serving in the last government in a coalition with the right-of-centre bright reds.

[Kazarogkai]

I've been thinking of this for a while, is there any way to stop black market? At least minimize it?

I know Black Markets proliferates during chaotic periods or like Great Depressions. Thus, makes it difficult to crack down on them.

Nevertheless, what would you do if you want to stop the Black Market?

Social and economic programs aimed at reducing or minimizing the effects of poverty help also. People engage in the black market when they are desperate and have little options, especially when their children are at risk of starving.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Do you guys think it's realistic for a legislature to change from:

(Image)

to:

(Image)

in an election?

Basically the golds have seen increasing support, and with a charismatic leader and a number of PR coups already in the current Captaincy they're already likely to see a surge in popularity, but I don't know if a rise from third party and 22.2% to senior coalition partner and 48.7% is realistic? The blues are seen as an almost-ersatz version of the bright Reds, with more popular support in a particular region (like SNP to Labour, but without the independence vote), and have basically stolen all the bright Red support in that area. Finally the Dark Reds have similarly ceded much support to the sea greens as they represent a slightly more leftist brand, but without the tarnish of serving in the last government in a coalition with the right-of-centre bright reds.

This is hard to follow.

Suggestions: give each color used an easily recognizable name like "Greens" or "Reds" or "Maroons" or whatever or alternatively use an abbreviation like "R" = red, "dR" = dark red, etc.

Second, order the second legislature as you did in the first image, i.e. in order of size, clockwise from the left

But otherwise, no, I don't think it's overly unrealistic for the legislature to change from one election to another the way you illustrate it has.

[The Akasha Colony]

Do you guys think it's realistic for a legislature to change from:

(Image)

to:

(Image)

in an election?

Basically the golds have seen increasing support, and with a charismatic leader and a number of PR coups already in the current Captaincy they're already likely to see a surge in popularity, but I don't know if a rise from third party and 22.2% to senior coalition partner and 48.7% is realistic? The blues are seen as an almost-ersatz version of the bright Reds, with more popular support in a particular region (like SNP to Labour, but without the independence vote), and have basically stolen all the bright Red support in that area. Finally the Dark Reds have similarly ceded much support to the sea greens as they represent a slightly more leftist brand, but without the tarnish of serving in the last government in a coalition with the right-of-centre bright reds.

It depends on how your seats are distributed and your election system.

Such swings might be more plausible in mixed-member proportional systems like that of Germany, where a nationwide swing in popular support can strongly affect the party list candidates. It also helps if most districts are designed to be competitive swing districts and there are comparatively few "safe" districts, which means that smaller swings in local support can result in large swings in electoral victories.

But in SMD/FPP systems like the UK and US, the trouble is that many districts tend to end up as relatively safe constituencies over time, and many incumbents are able to campaign on their own brand rather than the party's brand. So however tarnished the party in power may be, its individual candidates still have the powerful advantage of their incumbency. Voters might hate the party but still be okay with their own representative, and this is actually quite common. This is why the US and UK do not usually tend to see such enormous electoral swings. So thinking purely in terms of each party's national campaign is a bit misleading unless the election is entirely proportional with no district representation.

[Allanea]

On the other hand - as the US election shows - it's possible to see a swing in power with only a small change in support if it is spread in the right geographical areas.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

On the other hand - as the US election shows - it's possible to see a swing in power with only a small change in support if it is spread in the right geographical areas.

can't stump the trump

[Gallia-]

But you can impeach.

I did not solicit sexual relations from that FSB agent.

[Crookfur]

Do you guys think it's realistic for a legislature to change from:

(Image)

to:

(Image)

in an election?

Basically the golds have seen increasing support, and with a charismatic leader and a number of PR coups already in the current Captaincy they're already likely to see a surge in popularity, but I don't know if a rise from third party and 22.2% to senior coalition partner and 48.7% is realistic? The blues are seen as an almost-ersatz version of the bright Reds, with more popular support in a particular region (like SNP to Labour, but without the independence vote), and have basically stolen all the bright Red support in that area. Finally the Dark Reds have similarly ceded much support to the sea greens as they represent a slightly more leftist brand, but without the tarnish of serving in the last government in a coalition with the right-of-centre bright reds.

its fully possible, it doesn't look too dissimilar to the swing between the 1992 (con manjority) and 1997 (lab majority) elections.

[Tule]

I've been thinking of this for a while, is there any way to stop black market? At least minimize it?

I know Black Markets proliferates during chaotic periods or like Great Depressions. Thus, makes it difficult to crack down on them.

Nevertheless, what would you do if you want to stop the Black Market?

One novel method that has support among a lot of people these days is banning cash currency, or large denominations of it at least.

It's not 100% effective, but it makes all kinds of black market activity more difficult. Participants in the black economy would be forced to barter or to come up with a substitute currency that can be traded easily into electronic legal tender without arousing suspicion.

[Tule]

On the other hand - as the US election shows - it's possible to see a swing in power with only a small change in support if it is spread in the right geographical areas.

Not just geographical areas.

Targeted advertising lets you influence voters at the individual level.

Orwell, eat your heart out.

[The Soodean Imperium]

Long-awaited result of my question about coins with square holes.



Here's the Wiki article for the currency as a whole. I don't think there's anything odd in there, but if anything unrealistic sticks out I'd be glad to hear feedback.

Also including the bills I "made," though in a spoiler because it's a 900x900 image.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Long-awaited result of my question about coins with square holes.

(Image)

Here's the Wiki article for the currency as a whole. I don't think there's anything odd in there, but if anything unrealistic sticks out I'd be glad to hear feedback.

Also including the bills I "made," though in a spoiler because it's a 900x900 image.

(Image)

all looks very good.

One thing, however: I think it would be more realistic/look better to have the innermost square/bezel either have rounded corners or if not at least not have an actual 90 degrees fully sharp corner.. doesn't look too realistic/good/desirable to me. Or at least first try and soften the actual edge/line by making it finer and/or not full black in color..

[The Soodean Imperium]

Long-awaited result of my question about coins with square holes.

(Image)

Here's the Wiki article for the currency as a whole. I don't think there's anything odd in there, but if anything unrealistic sticks out I'd be glad to hear feedback.

Also including the bills I "made," though in a spoiler because it's a 900x900 image.

(Image)

all looks very good.

One thing, however: I think it would be more realistic/look better to have the innermost square/bezel either have rounded corners or if not at least not have an actual 90 degrees fully sharp corner.. doesn't look too realistic/good/desirable to me. Or at least first try and soften the actual edge/line by making it finer and/or not full black in color..

The coins it is based on had non-beveled square holes - or at least, as square as the minting equipment of the time allowed.

I may remove the black outline, though. Now that I look at it again, it would probably be better without it.

Either way I'm not too pleased with how the coin came out relative to how much effort I put into it, which is why I only made one instead of completing the series with J10, J50, ₩5, and ₩10 (for which I have drawings on paper and descriptions on the wiki page).

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

all looks very good.

One thing, however: I think it would be more realistic/look better to have the innermost square/bezel either have rounded corners or if not at least not have an actual 90 degrees fully sharp corner.. doesn't look too realistic/good/desirable to me. Or at least first try and soften the actual edge/line by making it finer and/or not full black in color..

The coins it is based on had non-beveled square holes - or at least, as square as the minting equipment of the time allowed.

I may remove the black outline, though. Now that I look at it again, it would probably be better without it.

Either way I'm not too pleased with how the coin came out relative to how much effort I put into it, which is why I only made one instead of completing the series with J10, J50, ₩5, and ₩10 (for which I have drawings on paper and descriptions on the wiki page).

one "cheap" way is to just resize & recolor & change the denomination digit(s) from it to get different coins vs. bothering with new designs. another idea could be to have simpler lower denomination coins and gradually integrate design elements that you've already created (e.g. the drawings) into higher value coins. this essentially creates some variety out of almost thin air whilst maintaining consistency.

but it depends on the level of sperg you want to achieve

[The Soodean Imperium]

The coins it is based on had non-beveled square holes - or at least, as square as the minting equipment of the time allowed.

I may remove the black outline, though. Now that I look at it again, it would probably be better without it.

Either way I'm not too pleased with how the coin came out relative to how much effort I put into it, which is why I only made one instead of completing the series with J10, J50, ₩5, and ₩10 (for which I have drawings on paper and descriptions on the wiki page).

one "cheap" way is to just resize & recolor & change the denomination digit(s) from it to get different coins vs. bothering with new designs. another idea could be to have simpler lower denomination coins and gradually integrate design elements that you've already created (e.g. the drawings) into higher value coins. this essentially creates some variety out of almost thin air whilst maintaining consistency.

but it depends on the level of sperg you want to achieve

Like I said, I already have paper sketches of what they would look like. At most I can keep "원" on the 5 and 10 coins but I would need to redraw 십 and 오 as well as 전 for smaller denominations. And then add Chrysanthemum, Cherry blossom, Pagoda / Mountain, and Sheaves of wheat / Sunburst emblems to each of the remaining coins. This is easier said than done, because it all has do be done in a way that shows the image not just as an outline but as a complex image cut in relief in metal, a style I haven't really worked with much beyond very basic shapes. You have no idea how much time went into getting that Falcon to an acceptable standard, and that was with the benefit of tracing over a photo in another layer.

Given enough time and effort I could probably do it, but I have a long list of other things to sperg about and coins that people will glance at and say "yeah looks fake" aren't that high on the list tbh.

[The Soodean Imperium]

How are freight trains and passenger trains segregated in major urban areas? Do freight trains normally get alternative routes in and out of the city, or do they just shoot through the middle of busy passenger stations? I've waited for trains on three continents and I've never seen this happen, except at minor stations in the countryside.

I got in a particularly spergy mood and decided to draw a map of the wider metropolitan area around my capital, and looking at Tokyo's tangled web of train lines is not helping.

[The Akasha Colony]

How are freight trains and passenger trains segregated in major urban areas? Do freight trains normally get alternative routes in and out of the city, or do they just shoot through the middle of busy passenger stations? I've waited for trains on three continents and I've never seen this happen, except at minor stations in the countryside.

I got in a particularly spergy mood and decided to draw a map of the wider metropolitan area around my capital, and looking at Tokyo's tangled web of train lines is not helping.

AFAIK freight trains will often simply never go anywhere near the city center itself. They'll divert around the city to the extent possible, especially if they're stopping in which case they'd need to stop at a large freight yard at the edge of town to transfer their goods to trucks or vans or such for last-mile delivery. Their loading gauge often makes the tight tunnels found in major urban areas a bit of a challenge anyway, and in places like the US where cross-country freight trains are often not electrified, traveling through constrained tunnels with a combustion engine locomotive would be a safety hazard anyway.

If they have to run through a city because there are no alternative routes or something, they'll usually be scheduled to move at off hours, often at night. This also tends to keep them clear of peak passenger traffic if they have to share the right of way. A train with good couplers (read: not European ones) can carry a ton of freight so there don't need to be that many departures. Time-sensitive cargo would simply go by truck instead so freight trains can be pushed around the schedule as needed.

Countryside stations tend to see few passenger trains and little passenger traffic so there's little reason to be concerned about headway or the potential safety issues of running a big freight train through a busy station.

[The Soodean Imperium]

How are freight trains and passenger trains segregated in major urban areas? Do freight trains normally get alternative routes in and out of the city, or do they just shoot through the middle of busy passenger stations? I've waited for trains on three continents and I've never seen this happen, except at minor stations in the countryside.

I got in a particularly spergy mood and decided to draw a map of the wider metropolitan area around my capital, and looking at Tokyo's tangled web of train lines is not helping.

AFAIK freight trains will often simply never go anywhere near the city center itself. They'll divert around the city to the extent possible, especially if they're stopping in which case they'd need to stop at a large freight yard at the edge of town to transfer their goods to trucks or vans or such for last-mile delivery. Their loading gauge often makes the tight tunnels found in major urban areas a bit of a challenge anyway, and in places like the US where cross-country freight trains are often not electrified, traveling through constrained tunnels with a combustion engine locomotive would be a safety hazard anyway.

If they have to run through a city because there are no alternative routes or something, they'll usually be scheduled to move at off hours, often at night. This also tends to keep them clear of peak passenger traffic if they have to share the right of way. A train with good couplers (read: not European ones) can carry a ton of freight so there don't need to be that many departures. Time-sensitive cargo would simply go by truck instead so freight trains can be pushed around the schedule as needed.

Countryside stations tend to see few passenger trains and little passenger traffic so there's little reason to be concerned about headway or the potential safety issues of running a big freight train through a busy station.

That's what I'd suspected. But here's my problem:

VERY WIP

The main shipping areas are in the northeast of Donggyŏng proper (north bank city), and in the east of Gyŏngpo (south bank city). The most active intercity line (both people and freight) would be the one to the southwest, with the one directly due north at a distant second. I can get Donggyŏng port freight to go north along the coastal line, which only passes through a few large towns, and get Gyŏngpo port freight to follow the south peninsula line, which eventually loops around to head southwest, but I can't find an easy way to send Donggyŏng port freight southwest without running the long way through a ~15-million-person city.

This is what led me to consider dedicated freight lines through the city center, which would at least allow me to bypass the busy stations and avoid passenger traffic. These could either be directly adjacent to the existing passenger lines or following a separate course with wider and fewer tunnels. The terrain west of Donggyŏng and south of Gyŏngpo is mildly mountainous (think Beijing not Denver) which makes a loop around the outskirts difficult but not impossible, and I would be willing to follow that path if it's deemed more feasible.

Timeline-wise, the original railway from Donggyŏng port inland would have been built in the 1870s or thereabouts, when the city limits were much smaller and passenger travel was lighter. Though I guess that can't stop me from re-routing rail freight onto new lines in the 1990s, when economic growth brings massive increases in both urban area and trade volume.

[Costa Fierro]

Countryside stations tend to see few passenger trains and little passenger traffic so there's little reason to be concerned about headway or the potential safety issues of running a big freight train through a busy station.

Suburban stations that aren't in the more built up areas will also see freight trains passing through if those stations are on main lines. In New Zealand's largest city, Auckland, for example, it's not unusual to see freight trains passing through stations on the southern lines which are also used by Auckland Transport's commuter rail system as these lines connect Auckland to other cities in the North Island.

That's what I'd suspected. But here's my problem:

VERY WIP

The main shipping areas are in the northeast of Donggyŏng proper (north bank city), and in the east of Gyŏngpo (south bank city). The most active intercity line (both people and freight) would be the one to the southwest, with the one directly due north at a distant second. I can get Donggyŏng port freight to go north along the coastal line, which only passes through a few large towns, and get Gyŏngpo port freight to follow the south peninsula line, which eventually loops around to head southwest, but I can't find an easy way to send Donggyŏng port freight southwest without running the long way through a ~15-million-person city.

This is what led me to consider dedicated freight lines through the city center, which would at least allow me to bypass the busy stations and avoid passenger traffic. These could either be directly adjacent to the existing passenger lines or following a separate course with wider and fewer tunnels. The terrain west of Donggyŏng and south of Gyŏngpo is mildly mountainous (think Beijing not Denver) which makes a loop around the outskirts difficult but not impossible, and I would be willing to follow that path if it's deemed more feasible.

Timeline-wise, the original railway from Donggyŏng port inland would have been built in the 1870s or thereabouts, when the city limits were much smaller and passenger travel was lighter. Though I guess that can't stop me from re-routing rail freight onto new lines in the 1990s, when economic growth brings massive increases in both urban area and trade volume.

Usually there'd be at least one rail corridor for intercity passenger rail services so they wouldn't need to use smaller commuter rail networks. In that case the city would likely have two branch lines that connect to the main rail corridor. Industrial areas would largely be devoid of any commuter or passenger rail anyway. Or, transfer the cargo using trucks.