Worldbuilding Realism Consultation Thread Mk. 4

[Dayganistan]

Think it's been pointed out numerous times that literally everything about Sharifistan is the death of Sharifistan. None of it works.

Well the over-representation of women benefits Sharifistan.

How when they don't have rights to work all the jobs your men who died in battle can no longer fill? The only thing it's going to get you is YPJ style militias popping up.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Well the over-representation of women benefits Sharifistan.

How when they don't have rights to work all the jobs your men who died in battle can no longer fill? The only thing it's going to get you is YPJ style militias popping up.

Women can work in Sharifistan, when did I say they' can't?

Women can be businesswomen (though it's uncommon), police officers, teachers (in fact most primary school teachers are women), soldiers (except infantry), military officers (except infantry), lawyers, judges and many more.
It's just in most families the husband's income is more and many married women don't work.
Almost all maidens and many widows work.
A nation that does represent my views set in Br

Also it brings the benefit of increased population and birth-rate.
One man with 3 wives can have more children than 1 man with one wife or (hypothetically) 1 woman with 3 "husbands".
This is important to a society where war is common.

Question:
How does a society expand it's territory without seeming imperialist to outsiders?

[Manokan Republic]

How when they don't have rights to work all the jobs your men who died in battle can no longer fill? The only thing it's going to get you is YPJ style militias popping up.

Women can work in Sharifistan, when did I say they' can't?

Women can be businesswomen (though it's uncommon), police officers, teachers (in fact most primary school teachers are women), soldiers (except infantry), military officers (except infantry), lawyers, judges and many more.
It's just in most families the husband's income is more and many married women don't work.
Almost all maidens and many widows work.
A nation that does represent my views set in Br

Also it brings the benefit of increased population and birth-rate.
One man with 3 wives can have more children than 1 man with one wife or (hypothetically) 1 woman with 3 "husbands".
This is important to a society where war is common.

Question:
How does a society expand it's territory without seeming imperialist to outsiders?

Buying the land, making agreements to absorb the other countries, or claiming it's a part of some kind of humanitarian effort to take over of a country, so legitimately helping them or appearing that way.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Women can work in Sharifistan, when did I say they' can't?

Women can be businesswomen (though it's uncommon), police officers, teachers (in fact most primary school teachers are women), soldiers (except infantry), military officers (except infantry), lawyers, judges and many more.
It's just in most families the husband's income is more and many married women don't work.
Almost all maidens and many widows work.
A nation that does represent my views set in Br

Also it brings the benefit of increased population and birth-rate.
One man with 3 wives can have more children than 1 man with one wife or (hypothetically) 1 woman with 3 "husbands".
This is important to a society where war is common.

Question:
How does a society expand it's territory without seeming imperialist to outsiders?

Buying the land, making agreements to absorb the other countries, or claiming it's a part of some kind of humanitarian effort to take over of a country, so legitimately helping them or appearing that way.

Thanks

[Ideal Britain]

Does requiring new police officers to have degrees harm manpower significantly in a developed country?

[Manokan Republic]

Does requiring new police officers to have degrees harm manpower significantly in a developed country?

It depends on the country, but I would say there's no point, as a police officer with a degree is not liable to be any better than* a police officer without one, and a lot of talent, particularly from the military, would be ignored with no benefits, so a requirement seems silly. It would reduce the available numbers, most likely since typically only half to 70% of the population has a college degree.

[Purpelia]

Does requiring new police officers to have degrees harm manpower significantly in a developed country?

It depends on the country, but I would say there's no point, as a police officer with a degree is not liable to be as good as a police officer without one, and a lot of talent, particularly from the military, would be ignored with no benefits.

It is NOT a good idea for police forces to recruit former soldiers. Soldiers have very different requirements to police officers in terms of how they approach civilians and frankly if your country is at all civilized that means untraining them from the military before you can train them for police work.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

It depends on the country, but I would say there's no point, as a police officer with a degree is not liable to be as good as a police officer without one, and a lot of talent, particularly from the military, would be ignored with no benefits.

It is NOT a good idea for police forces to recruit former soldiers. Soldiers have very different requirements to police officers in terms of how they approach civilians and frankly if your country is at all civilized that means untraining them from the military before you can train them for police work.

Many countries use soldiers for peacekeeping missions and train them to treat civilians well.
There are also rules governing treatment of POWs.

[Gallia-]

It depends on the country, but I would say there's no point, as a police officer with a degree is not liable to be as good as a police officer without one, and a lot of talent, particularly from the military, would be ignored with no benefits.

It is NOT a good idea for police forces to recruit former soldiers. Soldiers have very different requirements to police officers in terms of how they approach civilians and frankly if your country is at all civilized that means untraining them from the military before you can train them for police work.

America has literally no issues with it.

[Manokan Republic]

It depends on the country, but I would say there's no point, as a police officer with a degree is not liable to be as good as a police officer without one, and a lot of talent, particularly from the military, would be ignored with no benefits.

It is NOT a good idea for police forces to recruit former soldiers. Soldiers have very different requirements to police officers in terms of how they approach civilians and frankly if your country is at all civilized that means untraining them from the military before you can train them for police work.

That's not really true at all. The notion soldiers are all dumb and trained killahsz who can't think like normal people is silly. Any normal person is still going to be a normal person and not just murder people for fun or no reason.

A large portion of law enforcement are former military and there is a good degree of overlap between both professions, in large part due to professionalism, a willingness to sacrifice etc. The rules of engagement soldiers have to follow is not that dissimilar than the police, so it's not like they just open fire and kill everything that moves because they are warmongering orcs that eat the heads off of babies. This sort of perception of soldiers is a bit silly, since most will never see combat and fewer will commit atrocities if in combat. In Europe, huge swaths of the police are military, such as with the Gendarmerie units, who do 30-70% of the police work in many of these European countries.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Does requiring new police officers to have degrees harm manpower significantly in a developed country?

It depends on the country, but I would say there's no point, as a police officer with a degree is not liable to be any better than* a police officer without one, and a lot of talent, particularly from the military, would be ignored with no benefits, so a requirement seems silly. It would reduce the available numbers, most likely since typically only half to 70% of the population has a college degree.

I think graduates do, on average, make better cops.
Things like safeguarding vulnerable people, investigating crime and preventing crimes before they occur means certain degrees could be an advantage
(Criminology being an obvious one).
An understanding of social justice
(Important in any civilised justice system) and work in complex social settings such as a large multi-cultural City means degrees in social science could help.

Psychology based degrees could help in dealing with the mentally ill.

[Crookfur]

It depends on the country, but I would say there's no point, as a police officer with a degree is not liable to be any better than* a police officer without one, and a lot of talent, particularly from the military, would be ignored with no benefits, so a requirement seems silly. It would reduce the available numbers, most likely since typically only half to 70% of the population has a college degree.

I think graduates do, on average, make better cops.
Things like safeguarding vulnerable people, investigating crime and preventing crimes before they occur means certain degrees could be an advantage
(Criminology being an obvious one).
An understanding of social justice
(Important in any civilised justice system) and work in complex social settings such as a large multi-cultural City means degrees in social science could help.

Psychology based degrees could help in dealing with the mentally ill.

That all sounds lovely and is just the reason having a relevant degree can get you recruited directly into investigative or other specialist branches but it largely superfluous for front line policing which mostly involves parenting folk old enough to be your parents (to borrow a phrase from the bullfordshire constabulary).

Really the best way to learn how to work in a large multi-cultural city is to be from there, that will teach you far more than any trendy social sciences degree.

Just out of interest do you even watch or read any police procedurals or watch any of innumerable police documentaries?

[Ideal Britain]

I think graduates do, on average, make better cops.
Things like safeguarding vulnerable people, investigating crime and preventing crimes before they occur means certain degrees could be an advantage
(Criminology being an obvious one).
An understanding of social justice
(Important in any civilised justice system) and work in complex social settings such as a large multi-cultural City means degrees in social science could help.

Psychology based degrees could help in dealing with the mentally ill.

That all sounds lovely and is just the reason having a relevant degree can get you recruited directly into investigative or other specialist branches but it largely superfluous for front line policing which mostly involves parenting folk old enough to be your parents (to borrow a phrase from the bullfordshire constabulary).

Really the best way to learn how to work in a large multi-cultural city is to be from there, that will teach you far more than any trendy social sciences degree.

Just out of interest do you even watch or read any police procedurals or watch any of innumerable police documentaries?

I watch both documentaries and police procedurals.
Are you a cop?

[Ideal Britain]

It is NOT a good idea for police forces to recruit former soldiers. Soldiers have very different requirements to police officers in terms of how they approach civilians and frankly if your country is at all civilized that means untraining them from the military before you can train them for police work.

America has literally no issues with it.

Do you watch the news?

[Gallia-]

America has literally no issues with it.

Do you watch the news?

Perception != Reality.

In general, American police are not significantly more deadly proportionate to homicides per capita (homicides cleared, that is) than any Western Europe police. The fact that the USA has twice the population, and a higher base homicide rate, than Western European countries in general probably helps this perception; but American cops are no more deadly than, say, Canadians, or Swedes. In truth, Swedish cops kill more people per year than Americans, as a proportion of actual murderers to police killings, than American cops, as the Swedish police killings a third what American ones are, but their cleared murder rate is only about a fifth, so they disproportionately kill people. But let's not let real life get in the way of perceptions.

Swedish cops are probably shooting protesters violating ordnung rioters anyway.

People should be complaining about Luxembourg's police, though, who seem to shoot anything that moves, but the truth is no one actually cares about "police brutality". It's a dog whistle.

[Ideal Britain]

Do you watch the news?

Perception != Reality.

In general, American police are not significantly more deadly proportionate to homicides per capita than any Western Europe police. The fact that the USA has twice the population, and a higher homicide rate, of Western European countries in general probably helps this perception; but American cops are no more deadly than, say, Canadians, or Swedes. In truth, Swedes kill more people per year than Americans, as a proportion of actual murderers to police killings.

People should be complaining about Luxembourg's police, though, who seem to shoot anything that moves.

Well the Swedish police tyrannise activists who fall prey to honeytraps,
tolerate the Hells' Angels etc.
But if you compare them to British police...?

[Gallia-]

The UK lets murderers kill cops I guess.

I mean, if murderers in the UK attacked cops, that is. It's probably just low income people stabbing each other.

[Dayganistan]

Are you a cop?

This is the same as when you ask people if they're soldiers as if they need to be in the military to know what goes on in the military. It's not necessary and doesn't make someone's knowledge invalid if they're not a cop.

[Ideal Britain]

what jobs do ex-police usually do?
I'm thinking of making it canon that they work in the higher levels of the security industry (bodyguards etc.), as private detectives or (for high-ranking police) senior management roles.

[Izukyu]

I don't think that prior military service or a degree necessarily predisposes someone to be a better or worse cop. Police forces tend to be paramilitary in nature, which makes it logical why people from military backgrounds understand the structure, physical fitness, discipline and unspoken rules.

Having people with degrees tends to help with the investigative / paperwork side of things, as they generally can write intelligently and articulate themselves in reports, which is a hugely underrated skill for a truly effective cop.

In all reality it comes down to how you train your officers. A college degree or military training is not going to be a substitute for relevant and effective police training.

It also depends on the kind of police force your nation needs. If you're combatting armed terrorists in the streets, a degree doesn't matter and you want guys with military training. If your officers are responding to social disputes and other such miscellaneous societal housekeeping, some well educated officers probably wouldn't hurt to have instead.

[Ideal Britain]

Are you a cop?

This is the same as when you ask people if they're soldiers as if they need to be in the military to know what goes on in the military. It's not necessary and doesn't make someone's knowledge invalid if they're not a cop.

I know it doesn't.
It's just interesting.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

I don't think that prior military service or a degree necessarily predisposes someone to be a better or worse cop. Police forces tend to be paramilitary in nature, which makes it logical why people from military backgrounds understand the structure, physical fitness, discipline and unspoken rules.

Having people with degrees tends to help with the investigative / paperwork side of things, as they generally can write intelligently and articulate themselves in reports, which is a hugely underrated skill for a truly effective cop.

In all reality it comes down to how you train your officers. A college degree or military training is not going to be a substitute for relevant and effective police training.

It also depends on the kind of police force your nation needs. If you're combatting armed terrorists in the streets, a degree doesn't matter and you want guys with military training. If your officers are responding to social disputes and other such miscellaneous societal housekeeping, some well educated officers probably wouldn't hurt to have instead.

The most common type of police work in Sharifistan is deal with public disputes (both actually violent and just potentially violent disputes),
other common areas include:
Child protection (both uniformed and detectives), cracking down on vices (mostly gambling, done mostly by detectives), policing large crowds (most of the time,
This is rare during lockdown) anti-drug investigations and suicide prevention.
Most of these roles would benefit from university educated officers in my opinion.
Likewise I think some (the crowds thing, for example) would also benefit from ex-Army personnel.
What do you think, folks?
By the way in Sharifistan all police officers are University-educated and 60% are ex-armed forces.

[Triplebaconation]

Veterans are disproportionately represented in US police forces because of preferential hiring policies for government jobs, not because there's some skill or character overlap.

Veterans of today's unconventional warfare are probably worse at policing than veterans in the past but this is a complex and multicausal thing with no easy answers.

College degrees wouldn't matter much. The difference between being shockingly ignorant of the law and completely disregarding it is moot if there's no effective system of accountability. Since Sharifistan is a cartoon I suppose both would apply.

[Manokan Republic]

Another problem is the way things are calculated; police shootings in many country are low, because the military does it for them. The statistics are usually separated, but if you include all government killings of citizens, it's usually about the same. In the UK, due to the IRA-UK war, the military was frequently employed in place of the police in violent altercations, and that's the way it remained. Military forces are often used in place of where other countries may use SWAT teams. So, the total deaths are higher, even if the "police" don't technically do it, just people acting as police forces.

[Izukyu]

I don't think that prior military service or a degree necessarily predisposes someone to be a better or worse cop. Police forces tend to be paramilitary in nature, which makes it logical why people from military backgrounds understand the structure, physical fitness, discipline and unspoken rules.

Having people with degrees tends to help with the investigative / paperwork side of things, as they generally can write intelligently and articulate themselves in reports, which is a hugely underrated skill for a truly effective cop.

In all reality it comes down to how you train your officers. A college degree or military training is not going to be a substitute for relevant and effective police training.

It also depends on the kind of police force your nation needs. If you're combatting armed terrorists in the streets, a degree doesn't matter and you want guys with military training. If your officers are responding to social disputes and other such miscellaneous societal housekeeping, some well educated officers probably wouldn't hurt to have instead.

The most common type of police work in Sharifistan is deal with public disputes (both actually violent and just potentially violent disputes),
other common areas include:
Child protection (both uniformed and detectives), cracking down on vices (mostly gambling, done mostly by detectives), policing large crowds (most of the time,
This is rare during lockdown) anti-drug investigations and suicide prevention.
Most of these roles would benefit from university educated officers in my opinion.
Likewise I think some (the crowds thing, for example) would also benefit from ex-Army personnel.
What do you think, folks?
By the way in Sharifistan all police officers are University-educated and 60% are ex-armed forces.

As I said, I don't think it's an all or nothing thing. Having both college educated and ex-military cops is a realistic mix. The reality of police work is that you need people who can think intelligently but also respond to active violence.

And I can't speak for the specifics of your nation, but having every single cop be university educated seems a little excessive? Unless the university education is part of the police training?