Worldbuilding Realism Consultation Thread Mk. 4

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

https://theglobepost.com/2018/04/24/che ... -poligamy/.

Polygamy supports women's rights to be able to get married

In Sharifistan women outnumber men 3:1

[Triplebaconation]

2. It's unusual but I don't know of many Muslims (outside 2nd, 3rd gen etc. in the West or Muslims in modern Turkey or other secularised countries) who think its "weird".

Of course when your understanding of human society is roughly comparable to Mork "weird" has very little meaning.

[Dayganistan]

2. It's unusual but I don't know of many Muslims (outside 2nd, 3rd gen etc. in the West or Muslims in modern Turkey or other secularised countries) who think its "weird".

I'm pretty sure the majority of Muslims don't practice polygamy anymore even in countries that aren't secularized.

[Spirit of Hope]

https://theglobepost.com/2018/04/24/chechnya-kadyrov-poligamy/.

Polygamy supports women's rights to be able to get married

In Sharifistan women outnumber men 3:1

Why do women outnumber men 3:1, are your men all jumping off a cliff or something?

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

https://theglobepost.com/2018/04/24/chechnya-kadyrov-poligamy/.

Polygamy supports women's rights to be able to get married

In Sharifistan women outnumber men 3:1

Why do women outnumber men 3:1, are your men all jumping off a cliff or something?

No but they have a conscript army, are almost constantly in wars, have a high voluntary manslaughter rate (officially murders are rare due to a broad definition of "voluntary manslaughter) and because of their large population equipment is emphasised over manpower.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Why do women outnumber men 3:1, are your men all jumping off a cliff or something?

No but they have a conscript army, are almost constantly in wars, have a high voluntary manslaughter rate (officially murders are rare due to a broad definition of "voluntary manslaughter) and because of their large population equipment is emphasised over manpower.

Sending men off to fight Israel and occassionally Russia tends to lower population.

[Spirit of Hope]

Why do women outnumber men 3:1, are your men all jumping off a cliff or something?

No but they have a conscript army, are almost constantly in wars, have a high voluntary manslaughter rate (officially murders are rare due to a broad definition of "voluntary manslaughter) and because of their large population equipment is emphasised over manpower.

That makes no sense. You are saying that roughly one third of your population dies, basically before they can get married. You wouldn't have a functioning economy to produce equipment for you to fight with.

[Taihei Tengoku]

2. It's unusual but I don't know of many Muslims (outside 2nd, 3rd gen etc. in the West or Muslims in modern Turkey or other secularised countries) who think its "weird".

I'm pretty sure the majority of Muslims don't practice polygamy anymore even in countries that aren't secularized.

They practice consanguinity more:

Marry too many women and soon you're looking at your actual sister and actual mother. A Muslim polity that attracts "unattached" women has lots of polygyny.

[Ideal Britain]

No but they have a conscript army, are almost constantly in wars, have a high voluntary manslaughter rate (officially murders are rare due to a broad definition of "voluntary manslaughter) and because of their large population equipment is emphasised over manpower.

That makes no sense. You are saying that roughly one third of your population dies, basically before they can get married. You wouldn't have a functioning economy to produce equipment for you to fight with.

Many munitions factory workers are young unmarried women.
They tend to marry foremen, male factory workers or Ministry of Defence officials.

[Triplebaconation]

I'm pretty sure the majority of Muslims don't practice polygamy anymore even in countries that aren't secularized.

They practice consanguinity more:

Marry too many women and soon you're looking at your actual sister and actual mother. A Muslim polity that attracts "unattached" women has lots of polygyny.

I suspect the shading on that map is more or less identical to rates of polygamy and the relative cost of marrying.

The latter is the main source of unfulfilled bachelors in the Muslim world, and part of the appeal of ISIS and Boko Haram is that they offer low-cost weddings.

There's no indication male scarcity leads to polygyny, and it's probably more likely to occur when women are relatively scarce.

They tend to marry foremen, male factory workers or Ministry of Defence officials.

lol

[Purpelia]

Chicken or the egg--does eternal war cause high male mortality rates to require polygamy, or does polygamy create the surplus males for eternal war? Unless you're actual spear-chucking jungle cannibals like Yanomami and Papuans the former is probably untrue.

I disagree with your last statement.
Chechnya's population declined so much in the war with Russia it later to Kdyrov promoting polygyny.
Also much war propaganda exhorts men to defend their wives.
Also the genocide of the Bosnian Muslims reduced the number of Bosnian Muslim men, the female victims mostly suffered rape rather than murder and so more survivors are women.
As Islam is patrilineal (except for converts) encouraging Bosnian men to have 4 wives could bring things back to a bit more of normal.

Except that's not how demographics work. This might come as a shock to you at your age but the reason why much of the civilized rich world is suffering from declining population sizes and small birth rates is NOT A LACK OF SEX. Yes, that's right. Plenty of people are having sex and even getting married to have even more sex. But they are not having children. And the reason for this is simple economics.

Back in the middle ages when islam was founded the predominant economic model of the time basically split society into 2 classes. You had the rich (warriors, priests and merchants) and the farmers. The rich could afford as many wives and children as they wanted because they were rich. The farmers could because they grew their own food and clothing and the sum total of their other costs for their children such as education was zero because you learn farming on the job and you'll newer be anything more than a farmer anyway so there ain't no point sending you to school.

Unfortunately for you this is not a way you can run a modern economy. If you want to be a nation that is not in fact stuck in the middle ages and does not employ an economic model that has not advanced past that of Genghis Khan your citizens are going to need money to pay for healthcare, education and all sorts of other ancillary costs that make bringing up a child expensive. Which is inherently going to have them be far more reluctant to actually have children. And having 1, 4 or 40 wives is not going to change that one bit. If anything, having that many mouths to feed instead of just one is going to make the family less likely to have children unless you abandon any and all types of gender inequality and have the mothers get a job too. But than you have to deal with liberated women who don't want to have children because they want an actual life.

[Spirit of Hope]

That makes no sense. You are saying that roughly one third of your population dies, basically before they can get married. You wouldn't have a functioning economy to produce equipment for you to fight with.

Many munitions factory workers are young unmarried women.
They tend to marry foremen, male factory workers or Ministry of Defence officials.

I want you to have an understanding about how horrific your proposed losses are, and how they aren't in any way realistic.

In WW2 the USSR lost about 15-20% of it's population, and that was after being invaded and having the invaders conduct some pretty horrific war crimes on the civilian population. You are proposing at least 33% of your population being killed off, from the sounds of it for multiple generations. While the USSR's losses were heavier for males then females, but it wasn't as one sided as the losses you are proposing.

Put another way, the USSR had about 20% of it's population under arms at some point. Even if they had all been killed in battle they wouldn't have made the USSR's population reach a level of 1 man for every 3 women. At the same time the USSR was on an almost complete war economy, stopping the production of basically everything that wasn't war material, and they still required massive amounts of lend lease to make sure that their armies were equipped and able to fight.

[Radictistan]

Would jobs would make sense for the "idiot son" of the nobility to do?

In Radictistan it's GOCs, QUANGOs, and the financial sector.

[Kazarogkai]

I want you to have an understanding about how horrific your proposed losses are, and how they aren't in any way realistic.

Paraguay lost about 50% of their total population in addition to 90% of their male population during the war of the Triple Alliance. They still exist. Bit of a shit hole but they exist still. Plus adding further to the discussion based on some sources it appears Polygamy not only became a thing but was promoted in society in as a measure to help rebuild though considering it no longer exists in the modern society It's unlikely to have lasted more than a single generation.Other countries or areas which went through somewhat similar scenarios would be the american south and Liberia. In the case of the latter they lost around 20% in the case of the former Ive heard similar estimates for the white male population. Hence said losses are possible but the effects are unlikely to last past the short term.

It can happen but it's rare and wouldn't be a recurring thing. In effect it would be what one might call a populations "trial by fire" moment and hence unlikely to ever be repeated.

[Purpelia]

Would jobs would make sense for the "idiot son" of the nobility to do?

Some nobles have power, that is true. But for the most part if you have a large and extensive nobility nobles are basically your celebrity class. So look at them for all your noble related questions.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Many munitions factory workers are young unmarried women.
They tend to marry foremen, male factory workers or Ministry of Defence officials.

I want you to have an understanding about how horrific your proposed losses are, and how they aren't in any way realistic.

In WW2 the USSR lost about 15-20% of it's population, and that was after being invaded and having the invaders conduct some pretty horrific war crimes on the civilian population. You are proposing at least 33% of your population being killed off, from the sounds of it for multiple generations. While the USSR's losses were heavier for males then females, but it wasn't as one sided as the losses you are proposing.

Put another way, the USSR had about 20% of it's population under arms at some point. Even if they had all been killed in battle they wouldn't have made the USSR's population reach a level of 1 man for every 3 women. At the same time the USSR was on an almost complete war economy, stopping the production of basically everything that wasn't war material, and they still required massive amounts of lend lease to make sure that their armies were equipped and able to fight.

Ok but this isn't the only reason.
10% of men die of overwork

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

2. It's unusual but I don't know of many Muslims (outside 2nd, 3rd gen etc. in the West or Muslims in modern Turkey or other secularised countries) who think its "weird".

I'm pretty sure the majority of Muslims don't practice polygamy anymore even in countries that aren't secularized.

True but it's not seen as "weird" in the same way having 2 cars in LA isn't "weird".
It's something the rich do.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Does allowing people with non-violent misdemeanour juvenile convictions to become cops lower the quality of police?

[Gallia-]

kids these days be like "women are property" lmao

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

kids these days be like "women are property" lmao

Says the guy who wants to "distribute" unwilling women to prevent social unrest.
There's another way to prevent social unrest:
a functional police force.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

kids these days be like "women are property" lmao

What if the women agree to be "property" freely and with a sound mind?

[Triplebaconation]

kids these days be like "women are property" lmao

would giving burger king managers second wives improve burger morale in my muslim incel fantasyland?

(burger king recruits 27.3% of managers from the nobility)

[Gallia-]

kids these days be like "women are property" lmao

would giving burger king managers second wives improve burger morale in my muslim incel fantasyland?

(burger king recruits 27.3% of managers from the nobility)

bu(r)g(er) king

it only works if the radio jingles for the Sultincelnate's borgorking franchises go "hippity hoppity women are property" to the tune of red robin or something

kids these days be like "women are property" lmao

Says the guy who wants to "distribute" unwilling women to prevent social unrest.
There's another way to prevent social unrest:
a functional police force.

yeah monogamy is what actual Reality Winners do i guess

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

would giving burger king managers second wives improve burger morale in my muslim incel fantasyland?

(burger king recruits 27.3% of managers from the nobility)

bu(r)g(er) king

it only works if the radio jingles for the Sultincelnate's borgorking franchises go "hippity hoppity women are property" to the tune of red robin or something

Says the guy who wants to "distribute" unwilling women to prevent social unrest.
There's another way to prevent social unrest:
a functional police force.

yeah monogamy is what actual Reality Winners do i guess

Dubai has a low crime rate. That's just a fact.
Also aren't you the Incel one?
Do you think women should be forced to go out with specific men or am I mistaken?
Also there's something called gender equality. Are you familiar with it?

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

kids these days be like "women are property" lmao

would giving burger king managers second wives improve burger morale in my muslim incel fantasyland?

(burger king recruits 27.3% of managers from the nobility)

What's Incel about this?