Worldbuilding Realism Consultation Thread Mk. 4

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

a simple psalm.

A Psalm that commands:

Your hand will lay hold on all your enemies;
your right hand will seize your foes.
When you appear for battle,
you will burn them up as in a blazing furnace
...
You will destroy their descendants from the earth,
their posterity from mankind.

Is simple? Simple in its commands to genocide perhaps, it is certainly not trivial if your schools and citizens sings that they will burn and destroy the descendants of your enemies from the planet.
Certainly even for an Ancien Regime like you your neighbours would be alarmed at your explicit declaration to destroy their posterity utterly, worse than the French reactions to "Deutschland Deutschland Über Alles".

[Triplebaconation]

How do you militarize something that resembles more Naziism in tone than any modern state? Psalm 21 advocates aggressive imperialist expansion, preemptive destruction of the war-making capacity of your foes (both ideological and physical), and outright genocide down to every last woman and child. The only thing it's missing to make it truly Old Testament/Hitlerite is slavery, but Canaanites aren't even good enough for serfdom in the Ukrainian wheat fields.

There were no Canaanites when the Psalms were written. The Philistines were foreign invaders with Mycenaean cultural influences.

In context Psalm 21 is the victory song of a subjugated people and an assurance of the king's dominance against threats. However, the second half is still a formulaic early Iron Age curse and probably not well suited for a modern national anthem.

Growing up in the Anglican Church and noting the rather Edwardian feel of Nortend, I think it would be almost remiss not to use of Edward Elgar's patriotic hymns as an anthem.

[Danternoust]

It is sufficient to say that everyone has their own personal god in a way, for the majority of people, it is kind or just, but for leaders they desire Darwinianism in the extreme. It could be argued that leaders wish for their God to be worshiped by their subordinates or subjects for the benefits of élan vital, which may be connected to modern understandings of a noosphere and meme magic.

Of course talking about the élan theory of a defeated people, and meme magic just means we aren't talking about realism, but navel gazing.

[Danternoust]

Danternoust produces a line of drone container ships, in competition with other nations that have produced the same.

The container ships are controlled via satellite connection, using a kilowatt attenna array reinforced to survive rough seas. As even manned ships were grounded because of GPS connection losses, all wired connections are reinforced along with proper drainage to prevent corrosion. All containers on board are fitted with RuBee trackers for monitoring.

The attenna array doubles as an AESA radar to detect other ships as well as provide up-to-the-minute weather reports to the remote operator in the event of sudden storms. The ship will automatically stop or divert course if the risk of collision is detected, and the inertial positioning system will only be used for open waters.

Entry into the ship requires electronic keycards. If the ship is converted for manned use, there is provisions for up to 16 crew and 16 passengers. In the event of an emergency, there are several multi-tonne doors that can be lifted by crane to allow access onto the boat. It is common for pilots to board the ship to guide it for the last hundred kilometers in some waters.

In the event of fire, there is a pressurized nitrogen fire suppression system, and the interior of the boat is kept at a reduced oxygen level to reduce the risk of fires. Multiple turbo-electric power plants is used to provide redundancy in the event of an unlikely mechanical failure. Solar panels on the top deck provide additional redundancy so that at least beacons could still operate in spite of multiple failures. Finally a radiothermal isotope generator is used for redundant power below deck, as well as to trickle charge batteries.

It is an ongoing problem where migrant boats would hitch a ride onto a drone container ship by attaching a tow line to the ship with a magnet, and later severing the rope to sail to shore.

[Radictistan]

TL:DQ

Why not just use cheap and desperate Radictistani mariners?

[Ardoki]

Do the flight paths of satellites have to be made public?

What could a country do if an unidentified spy satellites was on a course over its country?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Do the flight paths of satellites have to be made public?

What could a country do if an unidentified spy satellites was on a course over its country?

1: Tracking satellites is supereasy.
2: How pissed off do you want to make your enemy?

[Ardoki]

Do the flight paths of satellites have to be made public?

What could a country do if an unidentified spy satellites was on a course over its country?

1: Tracking satellites is supereasy.
2: How pissed off do you want to make your enemy?

Depends... Would I be within my rights shooting it down? Or is that a violation of international law, or possibly even a declaration of war?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

1: Tracking satellites is supereasy.
2: How pissed off do you want to make your enemy?

Depends... Would I be within my rights shooting it down? Or is that a violation of international law, or possibly even a declaration of war?

Yes that's a blatant act of war. Also per customary irl international law outer space is akin to the high seas open to absolutely everybody.

[Crookfur]

1: Tracking satellites is supereasy.
2: How pissed off do you want to make your enemy?

Depends... Would I be within my rights shooting it down? Or is that a violation of international law, or possibly even a declaration of war?

Shooting satellites down isn't impossible but it's not easy either.
It's also one of these things that could have a lot of unintended consequences like do you want to responsible for mankind never being able to leave our planet ever again because our planet is now surrounded by a cloud of high of high velocity death?

Really spy Sat's are not anything to worry about, both the us and Russia happily live with each others Sat's looking at them. Really if you are in the technical position to shoot down satellites then you are also in the position to track everything in orbit so you know what will be in position to look at your nation (they don't even have to be directly over your "airspace" to see your land) and when so hiding stuff is simple(ish).

Edit: There is no real law regarding space, there are various agreements but its generally at best very loose consensus based.

Various equatorial countries did attempt to claim some sovereignty over the "space" above them and the geostationary satellites there in but the rest of the world pretty much ignored them or told them clearly to bugger off.

Ah this takes me back, in ye olde days "i claim all of space above my nation and shoot down all of the satellites" was generally the first or second act of an edgelord nation's emergence into II, along with the obligatory genocide, slavery and/or mega oppression.

Edit 2: Basically you have no rights to space other than those you can effectively enforce. You are free to claim sovereignty and threaten and attempt to shoot stuff down but as i said there will be unintended consequences, at worst the kessler syndrome i hinted at above, At best you fuck up the orbital assets of someone you really don't want to fuck with but is still a reasonable nation who is only going to put your economy in a basket unless you pay them all the moneys required to make them "whole".

[The Akasha Colony]

Depends... Would I be within my rights shooting it down? Or is that a violation of international law, or possibly even a declaration of war?

Satellites cannot generally adjust their orbits to avoid a specific country (unless their orbit is arranged from the start to avoid a certain section of the Earth) without depleting precious fuel, and very likely significant amounts of this fuel. And fuel often determines the lifespan of a satellite.

The orbital paths of LEO spy satellites like KH-11 are generally designed to give full coverage of the globe every few days. And given that these satellites cost in the same ballpark as a nuclear submarine or even an aircraft carrier, the loss of one would be rather upsetting, to say the least.

[Ardoki]

Depends... Would I be within my rights shooting it down? Or is that a violation of international law, or possibly even a declaration of war?

Shooting satellites down isn't impossible but it's not easy either.
It's also one of these things that could have a lot of unintended consequences like do you want to responsible for mankind never being able to leave our planet ever again because our planet is now surrounded by a cloud of high of high velocity death?

Really spy Sat's are not anything to worry about, both the us and Russia happily live with each others Sat's looking at them. Really if you are in the technical position to shoot down satellites then you are also in the position to track everything in orbit so you know what will be in position to look at your nation (they don't even have to be directly over your "airspace" to see your land) and when so hiding stuff is simple(ish).

Edit: There is no real law regarding space, there are various agreements but its generally at best very loose consensus based.

Various equatorial countries did attempt to claim some sovereignty over the "space" above them and the geostationary satellites there in but the rest of the world pretty much ignored them or told them clearly to bugger off.

Ah this takes me back, in ye olde days "i claim all of space above my nation and shoot down all of the satellites" was generally the first or second act of an edgelord nation's emergence into II, along with the obligatory genocide, slavery and/or mega oppression.

Edit 2: Basically you have no rights to space other than those you can effectively enforce. You are free to claim sovereignty and threaten and attempt to shoot stuff down but as i said there will be unintended consequences, at worst the kessler syndrome i hinted at above, At best you fuck up the orbital assets of someone you really don't want to fuck with but is still a reasonable nation who is only going to put your economy in a basket unless you pay them all the moneys required to make them "whole".

Yeah, some country has engaged in somewhat aggressive posturing against me (expelling diplomats), condemnation, threats (from their Queen), fleet movements (not near my waters though), and now spy satellites going over my country. So not really sure how to respond. I can see that shooting down satellites is definitely not a valid response. Will probably just stick to diplomacy. Thanks.

[Bears Armed]

Yeah, some country has engaged in somewhat aggressive posturing against me (expelling diplomats), condemnation, threats (from their Queen), fleet movements (not near my waters though), and now spy satellites going over my country. So not really sure how to respond. I can see that shooting down satellites is definitely not a valid response. Will probably just stick to diplomacy. Thanks.

When you know that that satellite will be passing over your territory, have large groups of your people form up outdoors to spell-out rude messages aimed at its owner's own leadership.

^_^

[Danternoust]

https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2010/ ... e-jet.html

So, is it possible for a jet aircraft to circumnavigate the world without refueling?

Satellites cannot generally adjust their orbits to avoid a specific country (unless their orbit is arranged from the start to avoid a certain section of the Earth) without depleting precious fuel, and very likely significant amounts of this fuel. And fuel often determines the lifespan of a satellite.

They have really big lenses, you can notice if the satellite is pointed away.

I'm assuming if you think satellites are actually useful and not just another means in bureaucratic turfwars.

[Purpelia]

To be honest it all depends on how large the two respective countries are. If you are the size of the Soviet Union or America it's hard to really complain about satellites passing over you. But if you are a small and irrelevant backwater like say South Africa and yet people still fly their satellites overhead than yea, you might see that as a provocation and actually not look like an idiot.

[Danternoust]

To be honest it all depends on how large the two respective countries are. If you are the size of the Soviet Union or America it's hard to really complain about satellites passing over you. But if you are a small and irrelevant backwater like say South Africa and yet people still fly their satellites overhead than yea, you might see that as a provocation and actually not look like an idiot.

This is peak Purpelia.

The real trick is to build into mountains or into bedrock, and export the stone. Have a tunnel civilization, above ground buildings are camouflaged (except for works of great architecture), etc.

[The Akasha Colony]

Yeah, some country has engaged in somewhat aggressive posturing against me (expelling diplomats), condemnation, threats (from their Queen), fleet movements (not near my waters though), and now spy satellites going over my country. So not really sure how to respond. I can see that shooting down satellites is definitely not a valid response. Will probably just stick to diplomacy. Thanks.

Again, satellites generally have mostly fixed and predictable orbits. So unless he has literally just launched these satellites for the sole purpose of spying on you in response to these issues, then these satellites will have been passing over you at regular intervals since they were previously launched.

To be honest it all depends on how large the two respective countries are. If you are the size of the Soviet Union or America it's hard to really complain about satellites passing over you. But if you are a small and irrelevant backwater like say South Africa and yet people still fly their satellites overhead than yea, you might see that as a provocation and actually not look like an idiot.

Given that most reconnaissance satellite orbits are designed to cover huge swaths of the globe on a regular basis, it is more or less a given that said satellites will pass over practically every country at some point or another.

[Purpelia]

Given that most reconnaissance satellite orbits are designed to cover huge swaths of the globe on a regular basis, it is more or less a given that said satellites will pass over practically every country at some point or another.

Exactly. You really have to be insignificant AND out of the way to the extreme like a south pole colony or something (South Africa being the next best thing) to have a legitimate reason to claim that someone is picking on you.

[Danternoust]

Wouldn't it be an amazing mistake for a U2 plane to spot Soviet nuclear-tipped missiles in Cuba? Wouldn't those be trivially camouflaged, and in general be kept in storage until a crisis? Funnily enough, a year later, some Soviet submarines were retrofitted with ballistic missiles.

I don't think satellites would see anything that others wouldn't be okay with. The assumptions for that wouldn't hold up to critical scrutiny.

I could see protests over a lack of privacy, but there just doesn't see to make much sense for this discussion.

[The Akasha Colony]

Exactly. You really have to be insignificant AND out of the way to the extreme like a south pole colony or something (South Africa being the next best thing) to have a legitimate reason to claim that someone is picking on you.

Except that normal sun-synchronous orbits cover the south pole too?

South Africa is the 24th largest country in the world and for a time possessed a nuclear arsenal.

[Purpelia]

Exactly. You really have to be insignificant AND out of the way to the extreme like a south pole colony or something (South Africa being the next best thing) to have a legitimate reason to claim that someone is picking on you.

Except that normal sun-synchronous orbits cover the south pole too?

Yea, but like if there was a nation there for some bizarre reason AND someone put a super advanced spy satellite or hundred to fly over them like was done with the Soviet Union they could legitimately say that there is literally no one else down there it could be looking at and thus act miffed without looking paranoid. Not so much anywhere else where you have at least one neighbor.

South Africa is the 24th largest country in the world and for a time possessed a nuclear arsenal.

And Turkey was once the bane of Europe. The trashbin of history has no mercy.

[Crookfur]

Except that normal sun-synchronous orbits cover the south pole too?

Yea, but like if there was a nation there for some bizarre reason AND someone put a super advanced spy satellite or hundred to fly over them like was done with the Soviet Union they could legitimately say that there is literally no one else down there it could be looking at and thus act miffed without looking paranoid. Not so much anywhere else where you have at least one neighbor.

Except they could be mainly looking at a country on the other side of the earth...

[Purpelia]

Yea, but like if there was a nation there for some bizarre reason AND someone put a super advanced spy satellite or hundred to fly over them like was done with the Soviet Union they could legitimately say that there is literally no one else down there it could be looking at and thus act miffed without looking paranoid. Not so much anywhere else where you have at least one neighbor.

Except they could be mainly looking at a country on the other side of the earth...

Sure but it's still the most reasonable scenario I could come up with. Not saying it's a good one. Just the best that could be.
Like contrast it with say being Belgium.

[Silver Commonwealth]

Could urban farming be realistically implemented on such a scale, that it could sustain cities with food? (Of course, with all the setbacks, and obstacles during the program.)

[Manokan Republic]

Could urban farming be realistically implemented on such a scale, that it could sustain cities with food? (Of course, with all the setbacks, and obstacles during the program.)

Realistically you wouldn't want to do it since open land is widely available. But, in theory yes. The main way to get a farm tower would be to build a largely translucent building, and use giant mirrors to reflect light along the sides, although with the added benefit of grow lights, powered by something (such as nuclear power), to compensate for the inevitable shade that would occur with any stacked system. You can grow mushrooms underground without any sunlight, and plants that need more shade at the bottom (such as potatoes), while you can grow plants that need more sunlight at the top. Aquaponics has the potential to grow all year round, with no soil, and produce fish, and unlike hydroponics doesn't require as closed off a system as it's naturally self sufficient and doesn't take to algal blooms and the like. The increased root density due to the closer proximity in water based systems, combined with the greenhouse style effect, would allow for 6-30 times greater volumes of growth, and if it's stacked you can get more than this, dependent on how many layers you have. With the added benefit of fish and even potentially chickens if you have them roaming around on top, you can also grow extra meat, which increases your food output dramatically. And unlike large aquariums which get nitrogen buildup, the plants take care of this for the fish, eliminating this particular problem as well.

The main drawback is energy constraints and cost, with it being extremely expensive to build such a thing. But conceivably, if you had a ton of them, and sufficient power, such as fusion in the future, or uranium plants now, yes. You also could have every home have a garden, grow as much on rooftops as possible, and grow a ton of fish underground, who's water is used as fertilizer. Fish unlike something like chickens or cows can room around inside their aquarium just fine, and thus do alright in a cage.


Alternatively, you could have people live underground and use the surface to grow plants, but this would take making an entirely new city. Also alternatively you could grow food in giant ocean farms which, doesn't take up land space, and as most major cities are near the coast, like New York, Atlanta, L.A., Tokyo, London etc., this is not a bad option for the space challenged. It's basically sea-based aquaponics, with some sort of container to keep your stuff from floating away. You can have a sea farm much more easily if you are connected to sea, growing fish, than in a contained environment where nitrogen builds up. Having an aquarium that lets in fresh sea water and even potentially food is always great, as long as you can keep the fish from getting out.