Worldbuilding Realism Consultation Thread Mk. 4

[Hyggemata]

Hoping to crowdsource some ideas in this thread for some of my early history and culture.

Context: My people, the Volths (working name) were exiled from their homeland (Thedosia) some time around the turn of the millennium (~200 BCE - ~300 CE). They're northerners resembling Goths and other various Germanic peoples who are being driven out by other encroaching peoples because they're significantly different from the norm on the continent; so, they flee across the sea to the north where they find Idreiga, which is essentially the American Midwest and Southern Canada on steroids, home to vast civilizations of Native American analogues with decent-sized (but still technologically primitive; no horses, livestock, metallurgy, etc) polities dotting the continent. The Volths settle down, start mingling, fighting, trading, what have you. I've handwaved the whole "natives die because of no immunity to newcomers' diseases" thing for now.

My question for you folks: what path do you think such a society would take? Their technology isn't particularly advanced - ironsmithing, they're pretty good at sailing the many deep waterways of the continent, whatever you might expect of Germanic tribes of antiquity with a few extra tricks picked up from their Roman neighbors. It's essentially the colonization of the New World with technology that's over a thousand years more primitive, except there'll be no help coming from the motherland - several tens/hundreds of thousands of people coming in waves over the course of a century or two and setting up shop, then expanding outwards.

How effectively do you think the Volths would have been able to deal with what were essentially the Ojibwe, Sioux, and Iroquois? Could they have existed peacefully and eventually merged into a single society over time? Do their iron weapons and armor actually offer very little help in the grand scheme of things? Do they remain isolated in the region they originally came from? And most importantly - how do you think their culture might evolve over the next several centuries? Does European-style feudalism take hold? Do they all sing Kumbaya in a big communist commonwealth? Does a single God Emperor rise up to rule the land?

Looking forward to hearing people's input and ideas.

This is actually remarkably similar to the premise of this nation, except we departed from the same homeland much earlier in history, probably c. 700s BCE, and settled in Asia Minor; after some isolation, Japanese influence started to take hold

[Nordwalsh]

This is actually remarkably similar to the premise of this nation, except we departed from the same homeland much earlier in history, probably c. 700s BCE, and settled in Asia Minor; after some isolation, Japanese influence started to take hold

Ha! Small world, eh? I was actually considering some very minor East Asian influence in the Natives of Idreiga, just so they weren't flatout Native Americans,but haven't decided how to implement such influence yet.

[The State of Monavia]

Is this better?
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=the ... /id=864877
My apologies if I continue to get this wrong.

Yes, this is much better so far. Out of curiosity, when (in IC time) was this constitution created? You might want to consider using the [tab] tags to indent clauses or create numbered lists. You can use the code of regulations in my diplomatic exchange thread as an example to mine for ideas. On the grammar front, you do not need periods after the word article.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Some spanish-themed slicktop police van livery I've randomly made (click 4 higher res)



credits: source - shipbucket.com ; original author - indiajuliet

some things:

-the bottom strip of blue/green squares is supposedly made of reflective hi-vis stuff
-the spiderweb headlight guard design is probably not the best as it tends to bunch up the highest density of material around the center of the headlight which will obstruct the light from going through

criticisms/suggestions? (both in regards to aesthetics and functionality i.e. ease of recognition as an emergency vehicle etc.)

[The Islands of Versilia]

Is this better?
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=the ... /id=864877
My apologies if I continue to get this wrong.

Yes, this is much better so far. Out of curiosity, when (in IC time) was this constitution created? You might want to consider using the [tab] tags to indent clauses or create numbered lists. You can use the code of regulations in my diplomatic exchange thread as an example to mine for ideas. On the grammar front, you do not need periods after the word article.

Since Versilia hasn't ever had an official Constitution before, IC wise it is currently in development.
And thanks for the advice.

[Kedri]

Kedri was originally a hideout for 18th Century pirates, and was even a fearsome oversea empire at one point, but now her pirating days and legacy are in sharp decline. The pirates have realized the need to modernize if they want to keep up with the modern world and essentially, the modern citizens are descendants of reformed criminals, though retaining some pirate influences in their daily lives and society, such as slang, accents, and the pirate worldview influencing their politics, etc.

What kind of government would they set up, I'm thinking of a republic, but idk if it should be a parliamentary system like many European nations, or if they would imitate the American system, or maybe they could even adopt semi-presidentialism.

[Welskerland]

What are some tips for designing a good education system?

[NeuPolska]

What are some tips for designing a good education system?

IRL Europe as a whole is considered to have a good education system, particularly the Nordic countries. You could probably just copy what they do. Better education does generally mean higher taxes though, but if your citizens are more educated they'll have more access to higher paying jobs and therefore more money, but you also still need unskilled labor or otherwise lower-level work, so you may need to either rely on some kind of labor union system (in the US there's quite a bit of apprenticeship sort of stuff, where you can join a union and work as an electrician, construction worker, etc, right out of high school), or you can rely on immigrants or outsource all your low-paying jobs, but that comes with its own dangers.

[Kazarogkai]

What are some tips for designing a good education system?

IRL Europe as a whole is considered to have a good education system, particularly the Nordic countries. You could probably just copy what they do. Better education does generally mean higher taxes though, but if your citizens are more educated they'll have more access to higher paying jobs and therefore more money, but you also still need unskilled labor or otherwise lower-level work, so you may need to either rely on some kind of labor union system (in the US there's quite a bit of apprenticeship sort of stuff, where you can join a union and work as an electrician, construction worker, etc, right out of high school), or you can rely on immigrants or outsource all your low-paying jobs, but that comes with its own dangers.

A German style multi track system could also help in that regard. For the kids who aren't particularly academically inclined give them another path in secondary school. That is more or less how I modeled my system, albeit a bit more expanded.

A thing to keep in mind about your education system is how do you believe it should be structured. If your more of a federation like the USA or the aforementioned Germany your probably going to have a lot of local control of schools. How involved the national government is will depend, ranging from low(locals given complete autonomy with the center only there to enforce quality control) to high(centrally planned curriculum and funding with locals being charged with it's implementation).

[Questers]

You can't just transplant the education system of one country into another. If you tried to turn America's education system into Finland's you'd fail tremendously, although you would spend less money. Different education systems also produce bigly different types of outcome.

[Kazarogkai]

You can't just transplant the education system of one country into another. If you tried to turn America's education system into Finland's you'd fail tremendously, although you would spend less money. Different education systems also produce bigly different types of outcome.

How so?

[Taihei Tengoku]

For the simple yet very complicated reason that America isn't Finland.

[Kazarogkai]

For the simple yet very complicated reason that America isn't Finland.

I was more or less asking him to elaborate a little further. What in particular is wrong with the Finnish system that makes it totally incapable with the united states. Honestly I can't see it bringing worse outcomes than say the Mississippi, and much of the deep south in general, education system.

[The Akasha Colony]

For the simple yet very complicated reason that America isn't Finland.

I was more or less asking him to elaborate a little further. What in particular is wrong with the Finnish system that makes it totally incapable with the united states. Honestly I can't see it bringing worse outcomes than say the Mississippi, and much of the deep south in general, education system.

Transplanting the education system means transplanting everything that underlies that system.

The reason educational outcomes are poor in the American South is because that region in general has poor outcomes in most socio-economic indicators. Incomes are lower, healthcare outcomes are worse, high-paying jobs are scarce, and the decentralized school board system means that educational objectives are set by elected officials who often reflect the conservative, anti-intellectual bent the area is stereotyped for. Formal education is also in general not valued as strongly as it is in more cosmopolitan and wealthier regions.

Correcting for these deficiencies means essentially completely replacing "the South" with some clone of Finland. You need higher incomes and a population willing to accept higher taxes. The GDP per capita of Mississippi is nearly 20% lower than the GDP per capita of Finland. You need a population that is willing to invest in public education and hand over significant control to unelected administrators. You need a culture that values formal education as something more than a burdensome government regulation. It would help if there were an abundance of high-skill, high-education jobs in the area that would entice people toward taking education seriously, but there aren't any meaningful numbers of these occupations in the Deep South outside of a handful of big cities like Atlanta.

It is no great surprise that high standards of living tend to correlate well with higher educational achievement, but the problem is that Mississippi and most of the Deep South is composed of land that is not particularly valuable and therefore produces little taxable income (even before factoring in the conservative anti-tax ideology that dominates the region). A century and a half later and the South has still hasn't really recovered from the Civil War in terms of economic share and prosperity. The big booms in technology and finance largely benefited the coasts while gains in manufacturing benefited the Midwest more than the South. The advent of mass air travel made it possible to skip over all the boring parts of the South en route to the more interesting parts in Texas or Orlando.

Perhaps the most obvious solution is a complete nationalization of the American education system to be organized entirely and exclusively at the federal level, to allow tax dollars from wealthier areas to be distributed to areas of greater need and to eliminate regional differences and biases caused by local political differences. But this too assumes huge shifts in popular opinion to make such a move possible. And introduces a slew of challenges in trying to administer an education system for a nation of over 300 million people. Meanwhile, all of Finland has a population that is far smaller than even that of New York City proper.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Lifeguards in your nation.

In RN, lifeguards are part of the Local, County, State or Federal Fire and Rescue Service.

They are specifically tasked with ensuring the safety of beach goers, swimmers, water sports practitioners or passengers aboard watercraft in relatively shallow waters close to shore (practically limited to beaches and nearby waters commonly used for leisure purposes, whether inland or coastal). Their area of operation is at most a couple miles from shore. SAR on deeper, more distant waters from RN's coast is the responsibility of the Marine BCP (Border and Customs Police) a.k.a. Coast Guard. SAR on other inland waters whether they be rivers or lakes is done by the Local/County/State/Federal FRS assisted by Local/County/State/Federal Police or even the BCP if close to the border.

Their official colors are red and yellow, with bright red for their swimsuits/swimwear and sunshine yellow (mixed w/ bright red accents) for their vehicles.

Vehicles include trucks/SUVs to carry/tow their equipment and water-going vehicles like inshore rescue boats, jetskis, rescue boards, rescue cans as well as rescue tubes/buoys, spineboards and towable rescue/utility sleds.

Lifeguards also make use of a variety of UAVs, UGVs and USVs for rescue and/or observation purposes.

Mobile, semi-permanent and stationary structures include various designs of lifeguard towers. Lifeguards may also operate tents for rescue/first aid or rehab purposes.

Individual lifeguard equipment includes the following:

4G/LTE + TETRA PSCT (Public Safety Communications Terminal) Waterproof/Ruggedized
Waterproof Bluetooth headset w/ microphone
PLB (Personal Locator Beacon)
Body worn camera Waterproof/Ruggedized
Lifeguard whistle
Megaphone (one per lifeguard tower/post)
Bright red wetsuit/swimwear
Rescue board/can
Utility life vest/PFD

Watercraft such as inshore rescue boats and PWCs also include EPIRBs as well as vehicle PSCTs and VHF radios for monitoring Channel 16 (156.8 MHz) which is the standard international maritime distress frequency, as well as communicating with the rest of the authorities. Lifeguard base stations/towers/posts also have longer range PSCT and VHF radios for the same reasons.

The typical lifeguard post/tower will have 1 small rescue boat and 1 jetski.

The PWC typically tows a rescue sled for surf/swimmer rescue.

Both the PWC and boats carry rescue tubes/buoys.

Additional larger watercraft as well as unmanned vehicles will be deployed to serve larger areas (i.e. multiple lifeguard posts), where these exist.

[Questers]

You can't just transplant the education system of one country into another. If you tried to turn America's education system into Finland's you'd fail tremendously, although you would spend less
How so?

Finland is a tiny, unitary, very wealthy, country where education is a high-status job and the public willingly let educators, who they trust, do whatever they want in school. The main aim is to teach people things and there are very few exams - Finns excel in the exams they do take.

The United States is a massive federal country with huge discrepencies in wealth, and education is done by the states. Parents are very involved and education is highly politicised and geared around children and parents having lots of choice to choose things they think are right for them.

Both the US and Finland have good education systems in terms of how many highly educated people they produce. Finlands is probably fairer, and produces better general education. But America has most of the world's good universities and massive scientific and technical research as well as being a big cultural force.

[Kedri]

How would you go about knocking down an established order to set up a new government or society completely, preferably without resorting to civil war?

Kedri has a provisional government, and it was historically a refuge for pirates, but some of the inhabitants realize the urgent need to modernize and abandoned piracy due to is impracticality and the trouble Kedri could get into with the international community. The Council is serving as a provisional government, which consists of former pirates, however, many Kedrians refuse to give up their pirating lifestyle at all.

[Gallia-]

How would you go about knocking down an established order to set up a new government or society completely, preferably without resorting to civil war?

Foreign occupation.

[Kedri]

How would you go about knocking down an established order to set up a new government or society completely, preferably without resorting to civil war?

Foreign occupation.

Well, I was considering having foreign powers coming in and help establish a new government, but not necessarily annex or control Kedri, at least not permanently.

[Kazarogkai]

Finland is a tiny, unitary, very wealthy, country where education is a high-status job and the public willingly let educators, who they trust, do whatever they want in school. The main aim is to teach people things and there are very few exams - Finns excel in the exams they do take.

The United States is a massive federal country with huge discrepencies in wealth, and education is done by the states. Parents are very involved and education is highly politicised and geared around children and parents having lots of choice to choose things they think are right for them.

Both the US and Finland have good education systems in terms of how many highly educated people they produce. Finlands is probably fairer, and produces better general education. But America has most of the world's good universities and massive scientific and technical research as well as being a big cultural force.

To be fair the united state is a bit wealthier than Finland($57,220 USA vs $43,545 FIN) so the tax increase necessary to bring this about wouln't be nearly as high as one might expect. I hypothesize somewhere in the 40% range would be all that is necessary, even that may not be needed though considering that were not calling for a full on welfare state like Finland were just going for a fully nationalized education system.

[Gallia-]

Finland is a tiny, unitary, very wealthy, country where education is a high-status job and the public willingly let educators, who they trust, do whatever they want in school. The main aim is to teach people things and there are very few exams - Finns excel in the exams they do take.

The United States is a massive federal country with huge discrepencies in wealth, and education is done by the states. Parents are very involved and education is highly politicised and geared around children and parents having lots of choice to choose things they think are right for them.

Both the US and Finland have good education systems in terms of how many highly educated people they produce. Finlands is probably fairer, and produces better general education. But America has most of the world's good universities and massive scientific and technical research as well as being a big cultural force.

To be fair the united state is a bit wealthier than Finland($57,220 USA vs $43,545 FIN) so the tax increase necessary to bring this about wouln't be nearly as high as one might expect. I hypothesize somewhere in the 40% range would be all that is necessary, even that may not be needed though considering that were not calling for a full on welfare state like Finland were just going for a fully nationalized education system.

The USA literally cannot have a "national education system". It is a federation.

[The Akasha Colony]

To be fair the united state is a bit wealthier than Finland($57,220 USA vs $43,545 FIN) so the tax increase necessary to bring this about wouln't be nearly as high as one might expect. I hypothesize somewhere in the 40% range would be all that is necessary, even that may not be needed though considering that were not calling for a full on welfare state like Finland were just going for a fully nationalized education system.

So just a casual doubling of the federal tax rate. Cool, that'll go over well with the people in Mississippi. I don't think they'd mind at all.

You still haven't solved for the other issues, namely the vast disparities in wealth and economic fortunes between different regions of the United States, varying attitudes toward education, the completely different view of Americans in general regarding how the education system is supposed to work, and the federal structure of the education system in general. Constitutional issues aside, a nationalized education program would require an immense bureaucracy to operate in a nation of well over 300 million people, something Finland need not concern itself with.

[Kazarogkai]

To be fair the united state is a bit wealthier than Finland($57,220 USA vs $43,545 FIN) so the tax increase necessary to bring this about wouln't be nearly as high as one might expect. I hypothesize somewhere in the 40% range would be all that is necessary, even that may not be needed though considering that were not calling for a full on welfare state like Finland were just going for a fully nationalized education system.

So just a casual doubling of the federal tax rate. Cool, that'll go over well with the people in Mississippi. I don't think they'd mind at all.

You still haven't solved for the other issues, namely the vast disparities in wealth and economic fortunes between different regions of the United States, varying attitudes toward education, the completely different view of Americans in general regarding how the education system is supposed to work, and the federal structure of the education system in general. Constitutional issues aside, a nationalized education program would require an immense bureaucracy to operate in a nation of well over 300 million people, something Finland need not concern itself with.

Average tax rate from what I remember is something like 30% already. It was probably even worse under Eisenhower when the top tax rate was 90% until that was lowered by Kennedy to 70% which in my eyes is ideal.

[Gallia-]

The Eisenhower-era tax rate was literally only possible because all wealth and industry was siloed away in an elite few of like-minded countries. Namely, NATO. Investors had nowhere to flee besides the Iron Curtain. We were also still in the era where productive capitalism ruled over parasite capitalism. Sorry, "Fordism" over "financial capitalism". And the population was actually growing across the board because it was above replacement rate TFR. A truly better era.

[Kazarogkai]

The Eisenhower-era tax rate was literally only possible because all wealth and industry was siloed away in an elite few of like-minded countries. Namely, NATO. Investors had nowhere to flee besides the Iron Curtain. We were also still in the era where productive capitalism ruled over parasite capitalism. Sorry, "Fordism" over "financial capitalism". And the population was actually growing across the board because it was above replacement rate TFR. A truly better era.

Ahh those were the days....