Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Type 6

[Riysa]

Soodean, have you read Panzer Leader yet by chance?

[The Soodean Imperium]

Soodean, have you read Panzer Leader yet by chance?

No, as a matter of fact I haven't. I'm halfway through Lind's "Maneuver Warfare Handbook," but I got sidetracked on Suvorov's "Inside the Soviet Army." I'll definitely take a look at Panzer Leader once I get the time, though.

[Riysa]

Soodean, have you read Panzer Leader yet by chance?

No, as a matter of fact I haven't. I'm halfway through Lind's "Maneuver Warfare Handbook," but I got sidetracked on Suvorov's "Inside the Soviet Army." I'll definitely take a look at Panzer Leader once I get the time, though.

Panzer Leader is great; its Guderain's autobiography, so its pretty filled with tactics and whatnot. Its somewhat dense, but its very useful, and plus, it provides insight into the workings Nazi government.

[Zeinbrad]

I based it's off the Panzer 4 slightly and Leman russ armament wise.

See, there's your problem. As it happens, I've done a fair amount of reading about maneuver warfare recently, and I agree completely that if used correctly it would allow a force of small, fast, light tanks to overwhelm a force of large, slow, heavy ones. But the Leman russ (and, again, pretty much everything out of WH40K) is large, slow, and heavy. In battle its high profile would make it easy to spot and hit, and at the operational level its high ground pressure would slow down your armored column in rough terrain. Even static AT guns would be able to pick off a monster like that.

At the very least, I recommend finding a unit artwork that's better suited to the maneuver warfare role. Ideally, I imagine such a design should be light, fast, and capable of moving on difficult terrain, with a low profile to make it harder to spot as it sweeps toward the surprised defenders, breaks through the line, and circles around to hit the other trenches from the rear.

I think you guys are assuming I'm going for an actual practical and good tank here. I'm not.

The Kanzer-3 is not going by modern or at least human standards of maneuver warfare, in fact, Germnains forces aren't that mobile, just more mobile then their opponents. Remember, trench warfare is common in Bellum.

The Kanzer-3 also doesn't use rivets, because the Ragon aren't that incompetent at Tank design.

[Questers]

Jet's where just coming into use

[Zeinbrad]

Jet's where just coming into use

Yes?

[Istevia]

See, there's your problem. As it happens, I've done a fair amount of reading about maneuver warfare recently, and I agree completely that if used correctly it would allow a force of small, fast, light tanks to overwhelm a force of large, slow, heavy ones. But the Leman russ (and, again, pretty much everything out of WH40K) is large, slow, and heavy. In battle its high profile would make it easy to spot and hit, and at the operational level its high ground pressure would slow down your armored column in rough terrain. Even static AT guns would be able to pick off a monster like that.

At the very least, I recommend finding a unit artwork that's better suited to the maneuver warfare role. Ideally, I imagine such a design should be light, fast, and capable of moving on difficult terrain, with a low profile to make it harder to spot as it sweeps toward the surprised defenders, breaks through the line, and circles around to hit the other trenches from the rear.

I think you guys are assuming I'm going for an actual practical and good tank here. I'm not.

The Kanzer-3 is not going by modern or at least human standards of maneuver warfare, in fact, Germnains forces aren't that mobile, just more mobile then their opponents. Remember, trench warfare is common in Bellum.

The Kanzer-3 also doesn't use rivets, because the Ragon aren't that incompetent at Tank design.

Well, the Leman Russ you used to represent your Kanzer-3 clearly has rivets on it, you might want to use Photoshop or Gimp to remove them.

[Chedastan]

Here's something I posted from last thread.

TM-1, or more often referred to as "Mariana's Fist" or a "Mariana Tank"


Designed: 1990-2001
Produced: 2001-present
Crew: 3 (driver,gunner,commander)
Armaments: Primary-130mm Smoothbore gun with ATGM capability. Secondary-One pintle mounted remote controlled NSV machine gun, One coaxial PK machine gun.
Weight: 51.2 tons
Armor: Chobham plating, Rolled Homogeneous Armor, Steel-composite-tungsten-reactive blend
Defense systems: AMAP, Shtora, Zaslon.
Engine: 1250 HP diesel engine.
Suspension: Torsion bar.
Operational range: 700 km
Speed: 66 km

[Riysa]

TBH I can't really see Chobham, heavy metal modules, and 51 tons being together in the same tank.

[Chedastan]

TBH I can't really see Chobham, heavy metal modules, and 51 tons being together in the same tank.

What should the weight be then?

[Riysa]

TBH I can't really see Chobham, heavy metal modules, and 51 tons being together in the same tank.

What should the weight be then?

A bunch heavier, although I can't give exact numbers (maybe something in the low 50s to 60s range). Unless you want to go with Russian composite blends, which are lighter.

[Questers]

Well it depends on the protected volume etc. Tho not impossible if youre smart: Leclerc is only 57 tons tops.

Its protection is not that great, though. And with a 157mm youre going to need a big turret for recoil path length AND ammunition. Are you thinking about one part or two part?

I get these numbers from tanknet for Leclerc armour. someone pls verify

Leclerc Glacis 580-600 KE, 1040-1060 HEAT,
Hull side: 90 KE, 420 HEAT,
Turret Front 890-910 KE , 1220-1420 HEAT,
Lower front hull : 780 KE , 850 HEAT

One part, probably, and I'm aiming for a bit higher than those numbers although they are close. What series are they from?

EDIT: The turret front numbers are actually slightly higher than my numbers, although I redirected protection to the hull.

that's gonna be a big bustle. the problem with those 157mm guns is ammunition and the internal pressure/size.

oone has to assume series 2.1.

Im going to copy the numbers wholesale for the SA-20RF and use T-80U numbers for the SA-21.

[Chedastan]

What should the weight be then?

A bunch heavier, although I can't give exact numbers (maybe something in the low 50s to 60s range). Unless you want to go with Russian composite blends, which are lighter.

Would 58 tons be alright?

[Riysa]

One part, probably, and I'm aiming for a bit higher than those numbers although they are close. What series are they from?

EDIT: The turret front numbers are actually slightly higher than my numbers, although I redirected protection to the hull.

that's gonna be a big bustle. the problem with those 157mm guns is ammunition and the internal pressure/size.

oone has to assume series 2.1.

Im going to copy the numbers wholesale for the SA-20RF and use T-80U numbers for the SA-21.

Going to run with a 35-round rear turret bustle, and I've run some calculations to determine the recoiling length. It should be set, just need to work on my crappy style! Speaking of which, I'm just wondering, does it visually look okay at this stage its at?

A bunch heavier, although I can't give exact numbers (maybe something in the low 50s to 60s range). Unless you want to go with Russian composite blends, which are lighter.

Would 58 tons be alright?

I guess it depends on how much armor you are going for?

[The Akasha Colony]

that's gonna be a big bustle. the problem with those 157mm guns is ammunition and the internal pressure/size.

oone has to assume series 2.1.

Im going to copy the numbers wholesale for the SA-20RF and use T-80U numbers for the SA-21.

Going to run with a 35-round rear turret bustle, and I've run some calculations to determine the recoiling length. It should be set, just need to work on my crappy style! Speaking of which, I'm just wondering, does it visually look okay at this stage its at?

35 rounds sounds like a lot for that caliber, IMO.

[Chedastan]

Would 58 tons be alright?

I guess it depends on how much armor you are going for?

Well enough to sustain getting hit by 130mm smoothbores.

[Questers]

The SA-20RF carries 36 x 975 * 137 mm rounds in its bustle.

[Anacasppia]

This is strange - how is it that Leclerc glacis has less protection against KE than the lower front hull, yet vice versa against HEAT? In fact IIRC its probably insufficient against contemporary 120mm APFSDS.

[The Kievan People]

This is strange - how is it that Leclerc glacis has less protection against KE than the lower front hull, yet vice versa against HEAT? In fact IIRC its probably insufficient against contemporary 120mm APFSDS.

You are giving too much credit to those (guess)estimates.

[Connori Pilgrims]

Going to run with a 35-round rear turret bustle, and I've run some calculations to determine the recoiling length. It should be set, just need to work on my crappy style! Speaking of which, I'm just wondering, does it visually look okay at this stage its at?

My own tank (which I might someday post here - if I get around to it) has a 34-round bustle for its 150mm gun after a lot of fiddling, the turret bustle came out at a little under 3.7m wide (precise measurements are at home). For your gun's ammo I'd imagine at least 4.2m wide bustle, probably more.

Unless you like really fat and heavy tanks or you're real good at internal fiddling, you might want to reconsider that bustle storage, or alternatively consider other autoloader arrangements like bustle + carousel.

[Zeinbrad]

Kanzer-2 Infantry support tank

A Kanzer-2 of the 25th Talmerian Armored regiment.
Operators-Empire of Germnia and her puppet states
City of Origin-Quat.
Crew-1 commander/radio operator , 1 driver, 1 main gunner, 1 main gun loader.
Powerplant- HVP-12 gasoline engine.
Weight- 20 tons.
Length-4.02 meters
Width-4.84 meters
Height-2.42 meters
Max speed: 60 km/h
Main armament-L/43 50mm tank gun.
Secondary armament-7.92mm MG-12 machine gun on pintle mount.
Ammunition-Main gun- 120 rounds.
Machine gun-1,200 rounds.
Number built-90,344
Years of Service(In human years)-1932-1964.
Combat history-The Jalu Wars (1933-1934)The first war the Kanzer-2 saw service in, about 600 Kanzer-2s saw action at the beginning of the war,in service with the 34th Talu armored regiment, and 36th Kau armored regiment. The Kanzer-2 was shown to be effective against the Briaan armor,which focused on anti-infantry combat (They are mostly armed with 15mm to 25mm autocannons).

The Colonial rebellions of 1937-The Kanzer-2 saw service with the colonial troops of Germnian as their main tanks. During the colonies spanning rebellions, about 300 Kanzer-2s saw action.

Variants.

Kanzer-2A Anti-Aircraft vehicle-A SPAAG version of the Kanzer-2, equipped with two 20mm autocannons.


Kanzer-2T Infantry Transport vehicle-A APC version of the Kanzer-2, and one of the first APC's in Bellum equipped with two 7.62mm machine guns and has a carrying capacityof 12 soldiers.

[Questers]

I await eagerly someone who knows some more realistic protection figures for the Leclerc.

[Lydenburg]

I await eagerly someone who knows some more realistic protection figures for the Leclerc.

Is it really better in that regard than the AMX-40?

Most expensive MBT in the world, damn well better be.

[Riysa]

I await eagerly someone who knows some more realistic protection figures for the Leclerc.

I found your exact numbers on strategypage, and it seems like its been briefly mentioned on another tank forum.

I can't say whether that's legit or not because said tank forum claimed that those figures were for the series 1 tank. Also, it seems the Leclerc has had...problems, and during trials has been quietly accused of rigging the tests so that it comes out on top.

[New Frenco Empire]

The Empire currently yields the ninth generation M2A5 Greatsword Main Battle Tank as it's primary armored vehicle.

M2A5 Greatsword Main Battle Tank


An M2A5 with most of it's weapons stripped.

Crew:
3 (Driver, Gunner, Technician/Auxiliary gunner), 4 (including commander if tank is platoon head)
Passengers:
Two C-900 Tank Hunter Drones
Main Armament:
1x Collins C55 125mm Railcannon
Secondary Armament:
1x 20mm Bofors Autocannon
Additional Armements:
1x Orsweck X9 Plasma Scattergun
2x Automated Gordon-Howe .50 gauss HMG
1x XC-I 7.62 Coaxial Gun
1x Vindication 12.7mm mingun turret
1x FMG-6 Automated TOW AA system
1x L-99 Automated 40mm Grenade Launcher
Armor:
Lars Mk.1 Electro-Reactive plates
Orwell Nano-Compsite Armor
Nano-Reactive Panels
Liquid Kevlar plates
Black Widow active camouflage mesh
Hallot Active Defense Energy Shield, or, HADES system
Engine:
Harkness-AC88 Liquid-cooled hydrogen-injected internal combustion engine (2,000 hp)
Max Speed:
75 mph (on-road)
70 mph (off-road)
40 mph (off-road; unfavorable conditions)
20 mph (amphibious)
Height:
7 feet
Width:
12 feet
Length:
30 feet (including gun)
Produced:
2262-present


A ninth generation MBT, the M2 Greatsword is considered one of the most effective tanks on the planet, and Frenkish armored brigades take great pride in their machines. It replaced the eighth generation V4A1 Mongoose MBT just before the 10 Years War. The Greatsword is designed with crew comfort and quick battlefield dominance in mind. It also has a plethora of countermeasures, such as plasma shielding, TROPHY, counter-missile laser weapons, and active camouflage provided by the Black Widow armor attachment. The main gun can also use thermal sensors to automate itself, but most gunners prefer to keep the main gun under their control. However, the high maintenance required for it's gun is a bit problematic, but most consider the pros to be superior to the cons. It's hydrogen-fueled ICE gives it a very long operational range, high-horsepower engine, and the hydrogen fuel source is highly renewable. In fact, all Greatswords feature a "fuel converter" which can turn any form of water the crew can collect (be it rainwater, ocean saltwater, anything) into usable fuel for the tank. The Greatsword even has it's own AI system, as opposed to the databoy-based ones in most other vehicles. This AI, aside from the obvious advantages in communications, automation, and management, allows the crew to link up with nearby UAVs or UGVs, allowing them to be controlled or given a direct surveillance feed from the safety of the turret by the technician. Some models also hold two C-9000 tank hunter units, deployed out of a bottom hatch.


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