Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Type 6

[Riysa]

My second try at linearting. Does the hull look good enough? I know its a bit long, but that's on purpose.

It looks to be over 9 meters long by my count, is that correct? Assuming you're still using RB's scale. I'm not sure how much higher the structure on the tank will go, but I assume there will be one since it's quite short, especially for a front-sprocket tank.

IMO, it's easiest to start without the skirt, draw just a basic hull box for the wheels if you intend to cover it later, but start with at least a basic hull outline so you know how much room you have in the hull itself for the driver and such. Nothing worse than going all the way through the design to realize in the end you don't have enough space to actually fit the crew or basic components.

It will be in the end 2.41 meters tall. There's still some more stuff I want to raise before I hit the turret, for crew space

I'm trying to marry a Black Eagle hull to a Leopard 2SG turret, although yes, I am going by the 1cm = 1 pixel scale. You think its too long?

[The Akasha Colony]

It will be in the end 2.41 meters tall. There's still some more stuff I want to raise before I hit the turret, for crew space

I'm trying to marry a Black Eagle hull to a Leopard 2SG turret.

Black Eagle though in typical Russian fashion had a much shorter hull. At roundabout 9.15 meters, this tank would be much longer than existing real vehicles. I know you said you wanted it long, just making sure you knew what you were going for. And that you've got the sprocket up front.

[Riysa]

It will be in the end 2.41 meters tall. There's still some more stuff I want to raise before I hit the turret, for crew space

I'm trying to marry a Black Eagle hull to a Leopard 2SG turret.

Black Eagle though in typical Russian fashion had a much shorter hull. At roundabout 9.15 meters, this tank would be much longer than existing real vehicles. I know you said you wanted it long, just making sure you knew what you were going for. And that you've got the sprocket up front.

Yeah, completely intentional. I'm not going for purist Russian or NATO design, because my nation has this odd thing where we are in the middle in terms of numbers and tech. The length Final length with gun forward should be about 12 meters, give or take, thanks to the 157mm M41 L/45. The length is partially to accomodate the turret with the large gun, as well as allow us to cram crew annemities into the main compartment. I briefly considered a chemical toilet, but I'm not sure if that's the best of ideas.

[The Akasha Colony]

Yeah, completely intentional. I'm not going for purist Russian or NATO design, because my nation has this odd thing where we are in the middle in terms of numbers and tech. The length Final length with gun forward should be about 12 meters, give or take, thanks to the 157mm M41 L/45. The length is partially to accomodate the turret with the large gun, as well as allow us to cram crew annemities into the main compartment. I briefly considered a chemical toilet, but I'm not sure if that's the best of ideas.

I did when I originally designed my tank but as Sumer noted it'd be complicated at best to use and would increase the protected volume (assuming it was protected), so I dropped it. Gun forward with a 155 mm L/46 gun mine is only 11.5 meters with a 8.17 meter hull length.

[Questers]

Most of the designs that are shown here seem to obviously come from a nation that has had a lot of contact with nations like the U.S. U.K, France or the U.S.S.R./Russia but my nations have only quite recently come into contact with the rest of the world

the majority of NS plays in the NSverse where those countries just don't exist.

and have only been introduced to foreign tank designs a decade ago or so and as a result does not produce vehicles that are all that similar as what we can see in the real world.

> assuming that physics is dependent on how many French people you know

[Questers]

Black Eagle though in typical Russian fashion had a much shorter hull. At roundabout 9.15 meters, this tank would be much longer than existing real vehicles. I know you said you wanted it long, just making sure you knew what you were going for. And that you've got the sprocket up front.

Yeah, completely intentional. I'm not going for purist Russian or NATO design, because my nation has this odd thing where we are in the middle in terms of numbers and tech. The length Final length with gun forward should be about 12 meters, give or take, thanks to the 157mm M41 L/45. The length is partially to accomodate the turret with the large gun, as well as allow us to cram crew annemities into the main compartment. I briefly considered a chemical toilet, but I'm not sure if that's the best of ideas.

How much do you intend this vehicle to weigh?

[Riysa]

Yeah, completely intentional. I'm not going for purist Russian or NATO design, because my nation has this odd thing where we are in the middle in terms of numbers and tech. The length Final length with gun forward should be about 12 meters, give or take, thanks to the 157mm M41 L/45. The length is partially to accomodate the turret with the large gun, as well as allow us to cram crew annemities into the main compartment. I briefly considered a chemical toilet, but I'm not sure if that's the best of ideas.

I did when I originally designed my tank but as Sumer noted it'd be complicated at best to use and would increase the protected volume (assuming it was protected), so I dropped it. Gun forward with a 155 mm L/46 gun mine is only 11.5 meters with a 8.17 meter hull length.

Yeah, not going to keep the toilet. Its a nice idea, but not worth it.

Got any suggestions about the lineart itself? I might cut it shorter by about a meter, or just re-do it to a more typical 7-7.5 m.

@Questers 55 tons.

[New Korongo]

This may seem like a mundane question, but how should the height of an armoured fighting vehicle be measured? Should it be measured up to the roof of the turret, to the top of the cupola, or to the uppermost point like the top of a RWS?

[The Akasha Colony]

Yeah, not going to keep the toilet. Its a nice idea, but not worth it.

Got any suggestions about the lineart itself? I might cut it shorter by about a meter, or just re-do it to a more typical 7-7.5 m.

@Questers 55 tons.

Personally, I'd cut it shorter, especially if you want to keep it to 55 tonnes with reasonable protection. As Kyiv noted in regards to HIFVs, lengthening the hull requires additional side armor to maintain the same standard of protection, or compromising on armor level. When I first drew my tank, it ended up at around 8.5 meters hull length but when I redrew the hull later, it shrank down to 8.38 and then down to 8.17 meters. I hadn't at the time but now that they're on RB's part sheet I'd put his crew silhouettes over the vehicle for comparison, to ensure space isn't wasted.

[Riysa]

Yeah, not going to keep the toilet. Its a nice idea, but not worth it.

Got any suggestions about the lineart itself? I might cut it shorter by about a meter, or just re-do it to a more typical 7-7.5 m.

@Questers 55 tons.

Personally, I'd cut it shorter, especially if you want to keep it to 55 tonnes with reasonable protection. As Kyiv noted in regards to HIFVs, lengthening the hull requires additional side armor to maintain the same standard of protection, or compromising on armor level. When I first drew my tank, it ended up at around 8.5 meters hull length but when I redrew the hull later, it shrank down to 8.38 and then down to 8.17 meters. I hadn't at the time but now that they're on RB's part sheet I'd put his crew silhouettes over the vehicle for comparison, to ensure space isn't wasted.

Ja, going to shorten it down to about 7.5m (and hopefully a gun forward of about 10ish meters), which will hopefully keep it in the range of 55 tons while having protection in the 800s range, without ERA (which would add about 3-4 tons).

[Questers]

Well it depends on the protected volume etc. Tho not impossible if youre smart: Leclerc is only 57 tons tops.

Its protection is not that great, though. And with a 157mm youre going to need a big turret for recoil path length AND ammunition. Are you thinking about one part or two part?

I get these numbers from tanknet for Leclerc armour. someone pls verify

Leclerc Glacis 580-600 KE, 1040-1060 HEAT,
Hull side: 90 KE, 420 HEAT,
Turret Front 890-910 KE , 1220-1420 HEAT,
Lower front hull : 780 KE , 850 HEAT

[Riysa]

Well it depends on the protected volume etc. Tho not impossible if youre smart: Leclerc is only 57 tons tops.

Its protection is not that great, though. And with a 157mm youre going to need a big turret for recoil path length AND ammunition. Are you thinking about one part or two part?

I get these numbers from tanknet for Leclerc armour. someone pls verify

Leclerc Glacis 580-600 KE, 1040-1060 HEAT,
Hull side: 90 KE, 420 HEAT,
Turret Front 890-910 KE , 1220-1420 HEAT,
Lower front hull : 780 KE , 850 HEAT

One part, probably, and I'm aiming for a bit higher than those numbers although they are close. What series are they from?

EDIT: The turret front numbers are actually slightly higher than my numbers, although I redirected protection to the hull.

[Zeinbrad]

Let me try my hands at this.

Kanzar 3 Vehicle fighting tank (VFT)

(Image)
The Kanzer 3 of the 24th Tallur armored regiment"
Operators-Empire of Germnia and her puppet states
City of Origin-Karz.
Crew-1 commander/radio operator , 1 driver, 1 main gunner, 1 main gun loader, 1 Sponson mounted gun gunner, 1 sponson mounted gun loader.
Powerplant- HVP-12 gasoline engine.
Weight- 30 tons.
Length-7.02 meters
Width-4.84 meters
Height-4.42 meters
Max speed: 41 km/h
Main armament-L/44 75mm tank gun.
Secondary armament-L/33 90mm tank gun and 7.92mm MG-12 machine gun on pintle mount.
Ammunition-Main gun- 60 rounds.
Sponson mounted gun-40 rounds.
Machien gun-1,200 rounds.
Number built-82,344
Years of Service(In human years)-1934-1967.


Oh, in the Ragon world (Bellum) this was one of the most effective tanks during the 1900's, this may be do to the other countries tank forces and Anti-tank forces being incompetent.

So anyone wondering how such a shitty (According to some people I asked) was one of the most effective tanks of it's era?

No one?

[Riysa]

Let me try my hands at this.

Kanzar 3 Vehicle fighting tank (VFT)

(Image)
The Kanzer 3 of the 24th Tallur armored regiment"
Operators-Empire of Germnia and her puppet states
City of Origin-Karz.
Crew-1 commander/radio operator , 1 driver, 1 main gunner, 1 main gun loader, 1 Sponson mounted gun gunner, 1 sponson mounted gun loader.
Powerplant- HVP-12 gasoline engine.
Weight- 30 tons.
Length-7.02 meters
Width-4.84 meters
Height-4.42 meters
Max speed: 41 km/h
Main armament-L/44 75mm tank gun.
Secondary armament-L/33 90mm tank gun and 7.92mm MG-12 machine gun on pintle mount.
Ammunition-Main gun- 60 rounds.
Sponson mounted gun-40 rounds.
Machien gun-1,200 rounds.
Number built-82,344
Years of Service(In human years)-1934-1967.


Oh, in the Ragon world (Bellum) this was one of the most effective tanks during the 1900's, this may be do to the other countries tank forces and Anti-tank forces being incompetent.

So anyone wondering how such a shitty (According to some people I asked) was one of the most effective tanks of it's era?

No one?

Anti tank forces were horrible, and technology never progressed past WW2?

[The Soodean Imperium]

Let me try my hands at this.

Kanzar 3 Vehicle fighting tank (VFT)

(Image)
The Kanzer 3 of the 24th Tallur armored regiment"
Operators-Empire of Germnia and her puppet states
City of Origin-Karz.
Crew-1 commander/radio operator , 1 driver, 1 main gunner, 1 main gun loader, 1 Sponson mounted gun gunner, 1 sponson mounted gun loader.
Powerplant- HVP-12 gasoline engine.
Weight- 30 tons.
Length-7.02 meters
Width-4.84 meters
Height-4.42 meters
Max speed: 41 km/h
Main armament-L/44 75mm tank gun.
Secondary armament-L/33 90mm tank gun and 7.92mm MG-12 machine gun on pintle mount.
Ammunition-Main gun- 60 rounds.
Sponson mounted gun-40 rounds.
Machien gun-1,200 rounds.
Number built-82,344
Years of Service(In human years)-1934-1967.


Oh, in the Ragon world (Bellum) this was one of the most effective tanks during the 1900's, this may be do to the other countries tank forces and Anti-tank forces being incompetent.

So anyone wondering how such a shitty (According to some people I asked) was one of the most effective tanks of it's era?

No one?

Well, I should point out that - in my honest opinion - vehicles from WH40K are pretty much a clumping-together of all the things you shouldn't do on a tank. Insanely big cannons, multiple barrels, side sponsons, and a height that exceeds width and possibly even length, among other things, are all very, very, very, very bad ideas, realism-wise.

[Zeinbrad]

So anyone wondering how such a shitty (According to some people I asked) was one of the most effective tanks of it's era?

No one?

Anti tank forces were horrible, and technology never progressed past WW2?

First one is correct.

The Reason is that the Kanzer 3 was designed for maneuver warfare, while it was fighting tanks designed for trench war. The Germnians where also decent at tank warfare tactics.

Soodean-The Ragon where competent tank design wise before Illgoth and his Posse changed how the Ragon did a war and such.

[Chedastan]

Let me try my hands at this.

Kanzar 3 Vehicle fighting tank (VFT)

(Image)
The Kanzer 3 of the 24th Tallur armored regiment"
Operators-Empire of Germnia and her puppet states
City of Origin-Karz.
Crew-1 commander/radio operator , 1 driver, 1 main gunner, 1 main gun loader, 1 Sponson mounted gun gunner, 1 sponson mounted gun loader.
Powerplant- HVP-12 gasoline engine.
Weight- 30 tons.
Length-7.02 meters
Width-4.84 meters
Height-4.42 meters
Max speed: 41 km/h
Main armament-L/44 75mm tank gun.
Secondary armament-L/33 90mm tank gun and 7.92mm MG-12 machine gun on pintle mount.
Ammunition-Main gun- 60 rounds.
Sponson mounted gun-40 rounds.
Machien gun-1,200 rounds.
Number built-82,344
Years of Service(In human years)-1934-1967.


Oh, in the Ragon world (Bellum) this was one of the most effective tanks during the 1900's, this may be do to the other countries tank forces and Anti-tank forces being incompetent.

So anyone wondering how such a shitty (According to some people I asked) was one of the most effective tanks of it's era?

No one?

It's essentially a Leman Russ without the benefits of Imperial technology. It would be worthless against cold war weaponry for sure.

[Riysa]

Anti tank forces were horrible, and technology never progressed past WW2?

First one is correct.

The Reason is that the Kanzer 3 was designed for maneuver warfare, while it was fighting tanks designed for trench war. The Germnians where also decent at tank warfare tactics.

Soodean-The Ragon where competent tank design wise before Illgoth and his Posse changed how the Ragon did a war and such.

Well, that tank is designed for trench warfare, and based on principles of WW1 tanks...the Leman Russ and 40k in general operate on Rule of Cool, IRL they wouldn't work at all with manuver warfare.

[Gallia-]

Most of the designs that are shown here seem to obviously come from a nation that has had a lot of contact with nations like the U.S. U.K, France or the U.S.S.R./Russia but my nations have only quite recently come into contact with the rest of the world

the majority of NS plays in the NSverse where those countries just don't exist.

and have only been introduced to foreign tank designs a decade ago or so and as a result does not produce vehicles that are all that similar as what we can see in the real world.

> assuming that physics is dependent on how many French people you know

Well, if they only recently became aware of the existence of other states, it's likely they're simply medieval, or someone invented the first radio and they're all using rhombuses. o:

[Zeinbrad]

First one is correct.

The Reason is that the Kanzer 3 was designed for maneuver warfare, while it was fighting tanks designed for trench war. The Germnians where also decent at tank warfare tactics.

Soodean-The Ragon where competent tank design wise before Illgoth and his Posse changed how the Ragon did a war and such.

Well, that tank is designed for trench warfare, and based on principles of WW1 tanks...the Leman Russ and 40k in general operate on Rule of Cool, IRL they wouldn't work at all with manuver warfare.

I based it's off the Panzer 4 slightly and Leman russ armament wise.

[Zeinbrad]

So anyone wondering how such a shitty (According to some people I asked) was one of the most effective tanks of it's era?

No one?

It's essentially a Leman Russ without the benefits of Imperial technology. It would be worthless against cold war weaponry for sure.

The Ragon fought like WW1 tell 2012, when Illgoth fucked the nations of Bellum over with good tanks and superior weaponry.

[Riysa]

Well, that tank is designed for trench warfare, and based on principles of WW1 tanks...the Leman Russ and 40k in general operate on Rule of Cool, IRL they wouldn't work at all with manuver warfare.

I based it's off the Panzer 4 slightly and Leman russ armament wise.

There's your problem - Leman Russ operates on WW1-era design and only manages to be sucessful because Rule of Cool and SpaceTech; the Panzer IV is completely different and operates on a more modern design. The two aren't compatible.

EDIT: So, technology never progressed past WW1 until nearly the modern day?

[Zeinbrad]

I based it's off the Panzer 4 slightly and Leman russ armament wise.

There's your problem - Leman Russ operates on WW1-era design and only manages to be sucessful because Rule of Cool and SpaceTech; the Panzer IV is completely different and operates on a more modern design. The two aren't compatible.

EDIT: So, technology never progressed past WW1 until nearly the modern day?

Compared to the real modern day, pretty primitive, they still used static AT and AA Guns, Jet's where just coming into use and most tanks went by quantity over quality.

[Riysa]

There's your problem - Leman Russ operates on WW1-era design and only manages to be sucessful because Rule of Cool and SpaceTech; the Panzer IV is completely different and operates on a more modern design. The two aren't compatible.

EDIT: So, technology never progressed past WW1 until nearly the modern day?

Compared to the real modern day, pretty primitive, they still used static AT and AA Guns, Jet's where just coming into use and most tanks went by quantity over quality.

Towed AT and AA guns are still in use though today (the Russian 125mm is a famous example, being both a tank and anti-tank gun), and are still somewhat effective. Plus, quantity over quality is only viable to an extent, which the Soviets realized - the T-72, although it was the second-highest produced tank in history, was found to be resistant to most Western penetrators in service when the Berlin Wall fell and NATO got its hands on some. True quantity over quality is more like Tsarist Russia in WW1 (where 1/3 of troops IIRC weren't even given a gun), which...well, we all know how that went.

[The Soodean Imperium]

Well, that tank is designed for trench warfare, and based on principles of WW1 tanks...the Leman Russ and 40k in general operate on Rule of Cool, IRL they wouldn't work at all with manuver warfare.

I based it's off the Panzer 4 slightly and Leman russ armament wise.

See, there's your problem. As it happens, I've done a fair amount of reading about maneuver warfare recently, and I agree completely that if used correctly it would allow a force of small, fast, light tanks to overwhelm a force of large, slow, heavy ones. But the Leman russ (and, again, pretty much everything out of WH40K) is large, slow, and heavy. In battle its high profile would make it easy to spot and hit, and at the operational level its high ground pressure would slow down your armored column in rough terrain. Even static AT guns would be able to pick off a monster like that.

At the very least, I recommend finding a unit artwork that's better suited to the maneuver warfare role. Ideally, I imagine such a design should be light, fast, and capable of moving on difficult terrain, with a low profile to make it harder to spot as it sweeps toward the surprised defenders, breaks through the line, and circles around to hit the other trenches from the rear.