NATION

PASSWORD

Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Type 6

A place to put national factbooks, embassy exchanges, and other information regarding the nations of the world. [In character]

Advertisement

Remove ads

Who will OP the next MGVoYN[NM] thread?

Imperializt Russia
39
25%
Anemos Major
52
33%
Questers
8
5%
Dragomere
21
13%
Dostanuot Loj
5
3%
The Kievan People
22
14%
Oaledonia
12
8%
 
Total votes : 159

User avatar
Anemos Major
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12682
Founded: Jun 01, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Anemos Major » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:15 pm

Luepola wrote:Autonomously. As in, the tank gets sent, or even programmed in person, orders and it carries them out, without anyone actually controlling it. Not remote control.


As Samozny has already noted - 'No.' :P

There're plenty of ways in which to approach this issue, but I'll take the easiest slant. How do you program 'ethics' into a computer? ;)

User avatar
Nirvash Type TheEND
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14737
Founded: Oct 19, 2011
Libertarian Police State

Postby Nirvash Type TheEND » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:18 pm

The JLH family just got a bit bigger.

From top to bottom: Base Export Variant/APC, ATGM tank destroyer, Fire support 120mm Mortar, and Weewoo Variant. Any comments/questions/concerns?
Unreachable.

User avatar
Spirit of Hope
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9299
Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spirit of Hope » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:19 pm

Luepola wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:
I would say Bad Idea. While you can make a tank remote control, it probably isn't going to work out well. However your communicating with the tank it can be james or severed, leaving the tank defenseless. You would probably end up dealing with lag time between tank and controllers in some way, and situation awareness will probably drop a little do to not being on the field.


Autonomously. As in, the tank gets sent, or even programmed in person, orders and it carries them out, without anyone actually controlling it. Not remote control.


I don't think you could pull that off with modern tech. Drive a given path, maybe. Figure out a path to use, maybe. Shoot at designated targets, maybe. Recognize certain targets, maybe. Choose ammo for certain targets, maybe. Network with other tanks, infantry, helicopters, and other ground units, maybe. That is a whole lot of maybes, most of them verging on Not Possible. And thats without giving into the big things like what Anemos just asked you.

Plus all that programing will go out the window when the enemy figures out parts of the programing and figures out ways around it. Think, how is your tank recognizing other tanks? Well the enemy figures that out and uses camouflage to make sure whatever system your using no longer recognizes them.
Fact Book.
Helpful hints on combat vehicle terminology.

Imperializt Russia wrote:Support biblical marriage! One SoH and as many wives and sex slaves as he can afford!

User avatar
Luepola
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1621
Founded: Sep 22, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Luepola » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:35 pm

Anemos Major wrote:
Luepola wrote:Autonomously. As in, the tank gets sent, or even programmed in person, orders and it carries them out, without anyone actually controlling it. Not remote control.


As Samozny has already noted - 'No.' :P

There're plenty of ways in which to approach this issue, but I'll take the easiest slant. How do you program 'ethics' into a computer? ;)


Spirit of Hope wrote:
Luepola wrote:
Autonomously. As in, the tank gets sent, or even programmed in person, orders and it carries them out, without anyone actually controlling it. Not remote control.


I don't think you could pull that off with modern tech. Drive a given path, maybe. Figure out a path to use, maybe. Shoot at designated targets, maybe. Recognize certain targets, maybe. Choose ammo for certain targets, maybe. Network with other tanks, infantry, helicopters, and other ground units, maybe. That is a whole lot of maybes, most of them verging on Not Possible. And thats without giving into the big things like what Anemos just asked you.

Plus all that programing will go out the window when the enemy figures out parts of the programing and figures out ways around it. Think, how is your tank recognizing other tanks? Well the enemy figures that out and uses camouflage to make sure whatever system your using no longer recognizes them.



Good points.

To respond to Anemos, I then thought of the idea that I could possibly incorporate it into a Tank Destroyer instead, so that it would only target armored vehicles preprogrammed into the system without losing much versatility. But then I saw SoH's post.

In any case, though, I'm still wondering how people have seemed to get away with in on UAVs (If I'm not mistaken). Is it because of different circumstances/uses?
Last edited by Luepola on Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The 'e' is silent.
Riding the Trump Train to the White House

Pro: Absolute Freedom of Speech
i am a trigendered female trans-arab jedi knight please use incorrect pronouns

Anti: Political Correctness, Abuses of Power


Enough is enough.

User avatar
Spirit of Hope
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9299
Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spirit of Hope » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:38 pm

Luepola wrote:
Good points.

To respond to Anemos, I then thought of the idea that I could possibly incorporate it into a Tank Destroyer instead, so that it would only target armored vehicles preprogrammed into the system without losing much versatility. But then I saw SoH's post.

In any case, though, I'm still wondering how people have seemed to get away with in on UAVs (If I'm not mistaken). Is it because of different circumstances/uses?


UAV's aren't autonomously controlled, they are remotely controlled from a base.
Fact Book.
Helpful hints on combat vehicle terminology.

Imperializt Russia wrote:Support biblical marriage! One SoH and as many wives and sex slaves as he can afford!

User avatar
Luepola
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1621
Founded: Sep 22, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Luepola » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:40 pm

Spirit of Hope wrote:
Luepola wrote:
Good points.

To respond to Anemos, I then thought of the idea that I could possibly incorporate it into a Tank Destroyer instead, so that it would only target armored vehicles preprogrammed into the system without losing much versatility. But then I saw SoH's post.

In any case, though, I'm still wondering how people have seemed to get away with in on UAVs (If I'm not mistaken). Is it because of different circumstances/uses?


UAV's aren't autonomously controlled, they are remotely controlled from a base.


I've heard though that they've made fully autonomous UAVs though, even if not used on an extensive scale. Is this true, or is there some component of them that is human controlled beyond preprogrammed orders?
The 'e' is silent.
Riding the Trump Train to the White House

Pro: Absolute Freedom of Speech
i am a trigendered female trans-arab jedi knight please use incorrect pronouns

Anti: Political Correctness, Abuses of Power


Enough is enough.

User avatar
Vitaphone Racing
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10123
Founded: Aug 25, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Vitaphone Racing » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:43 pm

Luepola wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:
UAV's aren't autonomously controlled, they are remotely controlled from a base.


I've heard though that they've made fully autonomous UAVs though, even if not used on an extensive scale. Is this true, or is there some component of them that is human controlled beyond preprogrammed orders?

Eventually they will, but not for the forseeable future. Autonomous objects can be programmed to "think" so to speak, but not to think critically.
Parhe on my Asian-ness.
Parhe wrote:Guess what, maybe you don't know what it is like to be Asian.

ayy lmao

User avatar
Spirit of Hope
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9299
Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spirit of Hope » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:44 pm

Luepola wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:
UAV's aren't autonomously controlled, they are remotely controlled from a base.


I've heard though that they've made fully autonomous UAVs though, even if not used on an extensive scale. Is this true, or is there some component of them that is human controlled beyond preprogrammed orders?


The closest any might come to fully autonomous are maybe some of the smaller recon platforms. And all they would do is fly out do some circles and then land. Almost all others are remote controlled, either from the US or units in the field. Even the smallest ones I've seen have a remote control.
Fact Book.
Helpful hints on combat vehicle terminology.

Imperializt Russia wrote:Support biblical marriage! One SoH and as many wives and sex slaves as he can afford!

User avatar
Registug
Senator
 
Posts: 4792
Founded: Feb 25, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Registug » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:07 pm

Mizrad wrote:Would the Stryker and LAV-25 be a good wheeled vehicle combination to field? Is there something else I'm missing? Also I know this might be a stupid question, but is the Stryker amphibious?

NZLAV and ASLAV are better

Embrace the ANZAC. We have air conditioning.
Call me Garshne

Astrayan

User avatar
Vitaphone Racing
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10123
Founded: Aug 25, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Vitaphone Racing » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:08 pm

Registug wrote:
Mizrad wrote:Would the Stryker and LAV-25 be a good wheeled vehicle combination to field? Is there something else I'm missing? Also I know this might be a stupid question, but is the Stryker amphibious?

NZLAV and ASLAV are better

Embrace the ANZAC. We have air conditioning.

We frigging need it too. ASLAV in 40 degrees = death
Parhe on my Asian-ness.
Parhe wrote:Guess what, maybe you don't know what it is like to be Asian.

ayy lmao

User avatar
Registug
Senator
 
Posts: 4792
Founded: Feb 25, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Registug » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:16 pm

I don't know why no one else has done it, what with all the fighting in the middle east.

You're going to a desert in a big metal box. Air conditioning would be good for the crew.

Pretty sure anyone driving M1 AIMs would be the most comfortable tankers in the theatre.
Call me Garshne

Astrayan

User avatar
Anemos Major
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12682
Founded: Jun 01, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Anemos Major » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:21 pm

Registug wrote:I don't know why no one else has done it, what with all the fighting in the middle east.

You're going to a desert in a big metal box. Air conditioning would be good for the crew.

Pretty sure anyone driving M1 AIMs would be the most comfortable tankers in the theatre.


Leclerc, and it's associated UAE export variant, have - less for the crew, more for the electronics.

User avatar
Rich and Corporations
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6560
Founded: Aug 09, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Rich and Corporations » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:46 pm

Registug wrote:I don't know why no one else has done it, what with all the fighting in the middle east.

You're going to a desert in a big metal box. Air conditioning would be good for the crew.

Pretty sure anyone driving M1 AIMs would be the most comfortable tankers in the theatre.

Statistics on the M1 with aircon aren't very... comfortable to begin with.
Corporate Confederacy
DEFENSE ALERT LEVEL
PEACE WAR

Factbook [url=iiwiki.com/wiki/Corporate_Confederacy]Wiki Article[/url]
Neptonia

User avatar
Lydenburg
Senator
 
Posts: 4592
Founded: May 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Lydenburg » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:12 pm

Ratel-90's replacement:

Image

Ek bly in Australie nou, maar Afrika sal altyd in my hart wees. Maak nie saak wat gebeur nie, ek is trots om te kan sê ek is 'n kind van hierdie ingewikkelde soms wrede kontinent. Mis jou altyd my Suid-Afrika, hier met n seer hart al die pad van Melbourne af!


User avatar
The Akasha Colony
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13885
Founded: Apr 25, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Akasha Colony » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:55 pm

Luepola wrote:I've heard though that they've made fully autonomous UAVs though, even if not used on an extensive scale. Is this true, or is there some component of them that is human controlled beyond preprogrammed orders?


They can be programmed to fly a normal course of waypoints to observe the enemy or some such, but that's a far cry from the programming complexity needed to build a system that can accurately identify enemy targets. Consider all the factors the human brain uses to determine whether a potential target is an enemy: appearance (which is hard enough for computers to recognize), posture, behavior, likelihood of an enemy appearing in this particular area, etc.

Then there's the programs required to allow it to actually engage and formulate a plan of attack to maximize advantage and minimize losses; something better than just 'point gun, load round, and shoot.'
A colony of the New Free Planets Alliance.
The primary MT nation of this account is the Republic of Carthage.
New Free Planets Alliance (FT)
New Terran Republic (FT)
Republic of Carthage (MT)
World Economic Union (MT)
Kaiserreich Europa Zentral (PT/MT)
Five Republics of Hanalua (FanT)
National Links: Factbook Entry | Embassy Program
Storefronts: Carthaginian Naval Export Authority [MT, Navy]

User avatar
Registug
Senator
 
Posts: 4792
Founded: Feb 25, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Registug » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:58 pm

Rich and Corporations wrote:
Registug wrote:I don't know why no one else has done it, what with all the fighting in the middle east.

You're going to a desert in a big metal box. Air conditioning would be good for the crew.

Pretty sure anyone driving M1 AIMs would be the most comfortable tankers in the theatre.

Statistics on the M1 with aircon aren't very... comfortable to begin with.

Yeah, could you explain please? Don't really get what's being said here.
Call me Garshne

Astrayan

User avatar
Rich and Corporations
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6560
Founded: Aug 09, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Rich and Corporations » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:01 pm

Registug wrote:
Rich and Corporations wrote:Statistics on the M1 with aircon aren't very... comfortable to begin with.

Yeah, could you explain please? Don't really get what's being said here.



Another improvement in the M1A2 SEP is the Thermal Management System (TMS) which keeps the temperature within the crew compartment under 95 degrees and the touch temperature of electronic units under 125 degrees during extreme conditions. By reducing the temperature in the crew compartment for the crew and electronic units, this increases the operational capability for both soldiers and the vehicle. The TMS consists of an Air Handling Unit (AHU) and a Vapor Compression System Unit (VCSU) capable of providing 7.5 Kilowatts of cooling capacity for the crew and Line Repairable Units (LRUs). The AHU is mounted in the turret bustle and the VCSU is mounted forward of the Gunner's Primary Sight (GPS). The TMS uses enviromentally friendly R134a refrigerant and propylene glycol/water mixture to maintain the LRU touch temperature at less than 140 degrees Fahrenheit. The TMS is mounted in the left side of turret bussel and weighs 384 pounds.
Corporate Confederacy
DEFENSE ALERT LEVEL
PEACE WAR

Factbook [url=iiwiki.com/wiki/Corporate_Confederacy]Wiki Article[/url]
Neptonia

User avatar
Registug
Senator
 
Posts: 4792
Founded: Feb 25, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Registug » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:43 pm

Rich and Corporations wrote:
Registug wrote:Yeah, could you explain please? Don't really get what's being said here.



Another improvement in the M1A2 SEP is the Thermal Management System (TMS) which keeps the temperature within the crew compartment under 95 degrees and the touch temperature of electronic units under 125 degrees during extreme conditions. By reducing the temperature in the crew compartment for the crew and electronic units, this increases the operational capability for both soldiers and the vehicle. The TMS consists of an Air Handling Unit (AHU) and a Vapor Compression System Unit (VCSU) capable of providing 7.5 Kilowatts of cooling capacity for the crew and Line Repairable Units (LRUs). The AHU is mounted in the turret bustle and the VCSU is mounted forward of the Gunner's Primary Sight (GPS). The TMS uses enviromentally friendly R134a refrigerant and propylene glycol/water mixture to maintain the LRU touch temperature at less than 140 degrees Fahrenheit. The TMS is mounted in the left side of turret bussel and weighs 384 pounds.

Okay, I get it now
Call me Garshne

Astrayan

User avatar
Lamoni
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 6823
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Postby Lamoni » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:00 pm

Registug wrote:
Rich and Corporations wrote:


Okay, I get it now


There are also water cooling garments that tank crews can wear, but that's pretty much the limit, as far as crew temperature comfort goes.
National Anthem
Resides in Greater Dienstad. Mayor of Equilism.
I'm a Senior N&I RP Mentor. Questions? TG me!
Licana on the M-21A2 MBT: "Well, it is one of the most badass tanks on NS."


Vortiaganica: Lamoni I understand fully, of course. The two (Lamoni & Lyras) are more inseparable than the Clinton family and politics.


Triplebaconation: Lamoni commands a quiet respect that carries its own authority. He is the Mandela of NS.

Part of the Meow family in Gameplay, and a GORRAM GAME MOD!

User avatar
Virana
Minister
 
Posts: 2547
Founded: Jan 04, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Virana » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:05 pm

While crew comfort is partially a concern, one of the main uses for air conditioning in armored vehicles (esp in the desert) is to prevent computers/electronics from overheating iirc.
II Mentor specializing in MT and GE&T. If you need help, TG me, visit our thread, or join our IRC channel, #NSMentors on irc.esper.net!

Mentors Hub | Welcome to II | RP Questions | #NSMentors
International Incidents Mentor | IIwiki Administrator

Owner of the United Republic of Emmeria and everything about it

User avatar
The Akasha Colony
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13885
Founded: Apr 25, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Akasha Colony » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:10 pm

Lamoni wrote:
Registug wrote:Okay, I get it now


There are also water cooling garments that tank crews can wear, but that's pretty much the limit, as far as crew temperature comfort goes.


There are forced-air circulation garments as well, which have generally proven to actually be better at reducing fatigue since they can be lighter and more moisture-wicking. The problem with a conventional air conditioning system is that much of this air will simply be lost if the commander chooses to fight heads-up with the hatch open, which is mitigated if a closed-loop system is used.
A colony of the New Free Planets Alliance.
The primary MT nation of this account is the Republic of Carthage.
New Free Planets Alliance (FT)
New Terran Republic (FT)
Republic of Carthage (MT)
World Economic Union (MT)
Kaiserreich Europa Zentral (PT/MT)
Five Republics of Hanalua (FanT)
National Links: Factbook Entry | Embassy Program
Storefronts: Carthaginian Naval Export Authority [MT, Navy]

User avatar
Rich and Corporations
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6560
Founded: Aug 09, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Rich and Corporations » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:11 pm

Virana wrote:While crew comfort is partially a concern, one of the main uses for air conditioning in armored vehicles (esp in the desert) is to prevent computers/electronics from overheating iirc.

You're in a big metal box, with a large heat source in the rear, and heat generators from the electronics and hydraulics.
NS-scale air conditioning is impossible.
Corporate Confederacy
DEFENSE ALERT LEVEL
PEACE WAR

Factbook [url=iiwiki.com/wiki/Corporate_Confederacy]Wiki Article[/url]
Neptonia

User avatar
Lamoni
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 6823
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Postby Lamoni » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:12 pm

The Akasha Colony wrote:
Lamoni wrote:
There are also water cooling garments that tank crews can wear, but that's pretty much the limit, as far as crew temperature comfort goes.


There are forced-air circulation garments as well, which have generally proven to actually be better at reducing fatigue since they can be lighter and more moisture-wicking. The problem with a conventional air conditioning system is that much of this air will simply be lost if the commander chooses to fight heads-up with the hatch open, which is mitigated if a closed-loop system is used.


My Google-fu must be weak today, for I could only find this when looking at such garments:

http://www.veskimo.com/
National Anthem
Resides in Greater Dienstad. Mayor of Equilism.
I'm a Senior N&I RP Mentor. Questions? TG me!
Licana on the M-21A2 MBT: "Well, it is one of the most badass tanks on NS."


Vortiaganica: Lamoni I understand fully, of course. The two (Lamoni & Lyras) are more inseparable than the Clinton family and politics.


Triplebaconation: Lamoni commands a quiet respect that carries its own authority. He is the Mandela of NS.

Part of the Meow family in Gameplay, and a GORRAM GAME MOD!

User avatar
Registug
Senator
 
Posts: 4792
Founded: Feb 25, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Registug » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:19 pm

Cooling is better than no cooling, at least
Call me Garshne

Astrayan

User avatar
The Akasha Colony
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13885
Founded: Apr 25, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Akasha Colony » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:23 pm

Lamoni wrote:
The Akasha Colony wrote:
There are forced-air circulation garments as well, which have generally proven to actually be better at reducing fatigue since they can be lighter and more moisture-wicking. The problem with a conventional air conditioning system is that much of this air will simply be lost if the commander chooses to fight heads-up with the hatch open, which is mitigated if a closed-loop system is used.


My Google-fu must be weak today, for I could only find this when looking at such garments:

http://www.veskimo.com/


This was posted before here, I think it was from Kyiv: LINK.
A colony of the New Free Planets Alliance.
The primary MT nation of this account is the Republic of Carthage.
New Free Planets Alliance (FT)
New Terran Republic (FT)
Republic of Carthage (MT)
World Economic Union (MT)
Kaiserreich Europa Zentral (PT/MT)
Five Republics of Hanalua (FanT)
National Links: Factbook Entry | Embassy Program
Storefronts: Carthaginian Naval Export Authority [MT, Navy]

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to Factbooks and National Information

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Gallia-, La Costa Dorada, Manokan Republic, Mercatus, The Akasha Colony, United Legion of American Nationalists

Advertisement

Remove ads