NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #5

[The Nuclear Fist]

Well I'm finally interested in taking a crack at designing a tank. From the way I've described my forces, I've seen them generally described as Soviet themed and having a 'Cold War-era China' vibe, so I'm interested in basing the tank around those ideas.

Now I know that Soviet tanks generally had a lower profile than their Western counterparts, and generally had less fancy computers and electronic doodads, the same going for Chinese tanks.

This is good, as it plays into my growing fear of cyber attacks, jamming, electronic damage, and EMPs.

So I want to design a Soviet/Chinese themed MBT that minimizes the fancy technological aspect while still being NS worthy.

I guess, first and foremost, I should ask where do I start?

[The Republic of Lanos]

Well I'm finally interested in taking a crack at designing a tank. From the way I've described my forces, I've seen them generally described as Soviet themed and having a 'Cold War-era China' vibe, so I'm interested in basing the tank around those ideas.

Now I know that Soviet tanks generally had a lower profile than their Western counterparts, and generally had less fancy computers and electronic doodads, the same going for Chinese tanks.

This is good, as it plays into my growing fear of cyber attacks, jamming, electronic damage, and EMPs.

So I want to design a Soviet/Chinese themed MBT that minimizes the fancy technological aspect while still being NS worthy.

I guess, first and foremost, I should ask where do I start?

Try Wikipedia to analyze the tanks the two nations used and go from there.

[Krazakistan]

Well I'm finally interested in taking a crack at designing a tank. From the way I've described my forces, I've seen them generally described as Soviet themed and having a 'Cold War-era China' vibe, so I'm interested in basing the tank around those ideas.

Now I know that Soviet tanks generally had a lower profile than their Western counterparts, and generally had less fancy computers and electronic doodads, the same going for Chinese tanks.

This is good, as it plays into my growing fear of cyber attacks, jamming, electronic damage, and EMPs.

So I want to design a Soviet/Chinese themed MBT that minimizes the fancy technological aspect while still being NS worthy.

I guess, first and foremost, I should ask where do I start?

I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say the chassis.

[Anemos Major]

Well I'm finally interested in taking a crack at designing a tank. From the way I've described my forces, I've seen them generally described as Soviet themed and having a 'Cold War-era China' vibe, so I'm interested in basing the tank around those ideas.

Now I know that Soviet tanks generally had a lower profile than their Western counterparts, and generally had less fancy computers and electronic doodads, the same going for Chinese tanks.

This is good, as it plays into my growing fear of cyber attacks, jamming, electronic damage, and EMPs.

So I want to design a Soviet/Chinese themed MBT that minimizes the fancy technological aspect while still being NS worthy.

I guess, first and foremost, I should ask where do I start?

If you want minimal electronics, then you need to rely on passive protection and signature reduction and make your FCS as capable as possible without exceeding your bounds so that, despite the electronics reduction, you can still reasonably expect to spot the enemy, lay your gun and fire before they can.
i) You need some degree of thermal vision. Yes, doodads, but absolutely necessary doodads - without this advantage, you'll find yourself in trouble.
ii) Passive protection. If you're not going to incorporate an APS or an electro-optical jammer, your armour needs to be build to withstand everything the former two might have been able to soak up. HERA protection (Kontakt V, for example, and now Relikt), modular armour (for easy replacement, a la the Leclerc), decent composites (even the Russians do this now), and some degree of roof protection would be nice.
iii) Signature reduction. Cool your engine exhaust, minimise the dust you kick up. Restrict your heat signature - IR webbing, maybe, or even some sort of ADAPTIV analogue (if that's not too electronic). What you lack in detection range has to be made up for in the minimisation of your own detectability.
iv) Bustle autoloader or manual bustle loading. One of the two. I know you're going for that Eastern Bloc vibe, but even the Russians had to learn somewhere, and that somewhere was Chechnya.

Just throwing out a few, 2am ideas. But really, develop your tank a little further and then people will be able to tell you where to change things and raise some more questions.

[The Kievan People]

A lot. Out of print, close to 600 pages, Jane's was the publisher...

[The Nuclear Fist]

Well I'm finally interested in taking a crack at designing a tank. From the way I've described my forces, I've seen them generally described as Soviet themed and having a 'Cold War-era China' vibe, so I'm interested in basing the tank around those ideas.

Now I know that Soviet tanks generally had a lower profile than their Western counterparts, and generally had less fancy computers and electronic doodads, the same going for Chinese tanks.

This is good, as it plays into my growing fear of cyber attacks, jamming, electronic damage, and EMPs.

So I want to design a Soviet/Chinese themed MBT that minimizes the fancy technological aspect while still being NS worthy.

I guess, first and foremost, I should ask where do I start?

If you want minimal electronics, then you need to rely on passive protection and signature reduction and make your FCS as capable as possible without exceeding your bounds so that, despite the electronics reduction, you can still reasonably expect to spot the enemy, lay your gun and fire before they can.
i) You need some degree of thermal vision. Yes, doodads, but absolutely necessary doodads - without this advantage, you'll find yourself in trouble.
ii) Passive protection. If you're not going to incorporate an APS or an electro-optical jammer, your armour needs to be build to withstand everything the former two might have been able to soak up. HERA protection (Kontakt V, for example, and now Relikt), modular armour (for easy replacement, a la the Leclerc), decent composites (even the Russians do this now), and some degree of roof protection would be nice.
iii) Signature reduction. Cool your engine exhaust, minimise the dust you kick up. Restrict your heat signature - IR webbing, maybe, or even some sort of ADAPTIV analogue (if that's not too electronic). What you lack in detection range has to be made up for in the minimisation of your own detectability.
iv) Bustle autoloader or manual bustle loading. One of the two. I know you're going for that Eastern Bloc vibe, but even the Russians had to learn somewhere, and that somewhere was Chechnya.

Just throwing out a few, 2am ideas. But really, develop your tank a little further and then people will be able to tell you where to change things and raise some more questions.

Alright, that helps a lot. I'll have to figure some stuff out.

[Riysa]

A lot. Out of print, close to 600 pages, Jane's was the publisher...

Darn. I grabbed my copy of AirLand Battle for about 15 dollars in almost new condition from Amazon.

Hopefully some place like Scribd will save me.

[New Vihenia]

i really want that new german books about tanks by Rolf Hilmes.

The downside however... i can't speak german

[The Republic of Lanos]

i really want that new german books about tanks by Rolf Hilmes.

The downside however... i can't speak german

Was?

[Questers]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... 4T3c#gid=6

[Questers]

i really want that new german books about tanks by Rolf Hilmes.

The downside however... i can't speak german

selamat baru tahun. sorry to hear about your hard drive. that really sucks :/ (late I guess)

[The Sarudin]

if i wanted to outfit a majority of my army(like 80-90%) with power armor would titanium or tungsten make for a better suit?

theyre all cyber-enhanced already so I dont hav e to worry about like adding super muslces to the suit or anything but i gotta make sure it can stop rpg hits and be emp-proofed

[Krazakistan]

if i wanted to outfit a majority of my army(like 80-90%) with power armor would titanium or tungsten make for a better suit?

theyre all cyber-enhanced already so I dont hav e to worry about like adding super muslces to the suit or anything but i gotta make sure it can stop rpg hits and be emp-proofed

In MT? With cybe-enhancements and shit? Seems a bit wanky.

[The Sarudin]

if i wanted to outfit a majority of my army(like 80-90%) with power armor would titanium or tungsten make for a better suit?

theyre all cyber-enhanced already so I dont hav e to worry about like adding super muslces to the suit or anything but i gotta make sure it can stop rpg hits and be emp-proofed

In MT? With cybe-enhancements and shit? Seems a bit wanky.

actually if you look here http://nseconomy.thirdgeek.com/nseconomy.php?nation=the+sarudin i could afford to have a significant amount of my people outfitted with super armor

im saving money though on giving the people themselves cyber enhancements though

[Transnapastain]

In MT? With cybe-enhancements and shit? Seems a bit wanky.

actually if you look here http://nseconomy.thirdgeek.com/nseconomy.php?nation=the+sarudin i could afford to have a significant amount of my people outfitted with super armor

im saving money though on giving the people themselves cyber enhancements though

He wasn't referring to the cost...

[The Sarudin]

actually if you look here http://nseconomy.thirdgeek.com/nseconomy.php?nation=the+sarudin i could afford to have a significant amount of my people outfitted with super armor

im saving money though on giving the people themselves cyber enhancements though

He wasn't referring to the cost...

i dont get it, whats wrong

im an engineer irl and i know how easy it is to make a suit of armor for someone

[The Corparation]

In MT? With cybe-enhancements and shit? Seems a bit wanky.

actually if you look here http://nseconomy.thirdgeek.com/nseconomy.php?nation=the+sarudin i could afford to have a significant amount of my people outfitted with super armor

im saving money though on giving the people themselves cyber enhancements though

1) Quick Tip: Most MT Rpers going for realism tend to ignore NS trackers.
2)Power Armor isn't MT. Neither is the kind of cybernetics you're thinking of. You won't be able to realistically field either of them anytime soon. The technology just isn't there yet.
3)You are not saving any money by cyberneticly enhancing every single one of your infantrymen.

[The Sarudin]

actually if you look here http://nseconomy.thirdgeek.com/nseconomy.php?nation=the+sarudin i could afford to have a significant amount of my people outfitted with super armor

im saving money though on giving the people themselves cyber enhancements though

1) Quick Tip: Most MT Rpers going for realism tend to ignore NS trackers.
2)Power Armor isn't MT. Neither is the kind of cybernetics you're thinking of. You won't be able to realistically field either of them anytime soon. The technology just isn't there yet.
3)You are not saving any money by cyberneticly enhancing every single one of your infantrymen.

1) i think its pretty realistic considering the nation size so im gonna keep on using it

2) theyre already developing soldier robots and power armor irl so i shoul be able to field it right about now

3) i figured that cyber enhancements would save on armor costs because you wouldnt have to add a bunch of electronic muslces or whatever

[Krazakistan]

1) Quick Tip: Most MT Rpers going for realism tend to ignore NS trackers.
2)Power Armor isn't MT. Neither is the kind of cybernetics you're thinking of. You won't be able to realistically field either of them anytime soon. The technology just isn't there yet.
3)You are not saving any money by cyberneticly enhancing every single one of your infantrymen.

1) i think its pretty realistic considering the nation size so im gonna keep on using it

2) theyre already developing soldier robots and power armor irl so i shoul be able to field it right about now

3) i figured that cyber enhancements would save on armor costs because you wouldnt have to add a bunch of electronic muslces or whatever

1) The only MT Rpers that use trackers are the same ones that have 500 million man armies with 80 million M1A2s and 130 million S-400s; the same ones with no real concept of realism

2) This is currently the closest we have to power armor. I know there's another one which is much larger and bulkier, but you get the point.

3) No, it really won't. Especially if you plan on making them out of tungsten.

[Vitaphone Racing]

He wasn't referring to the cost...

i dont get it, whats wrong

im an engineer irl and i know how easy it is to make a suit of armor for someone

Please don't say that, it makes the rest of us look really bad.

[Aqizithiuda]

1) Quick Tip: Most MT Rpers going for realism tend to ignore NS trackers.
2)Power Armor isn't MT. Neither is the kind of cybernetics you're thinking of. You won't be able to realistically field either of them anytime soon. The technology just isn't there yet.
3)You are not saving any money by cyberneticly enhancing every single one of your infantrymen.

1) i think its pretty realistic considering the nation size so im gonna keep on using it

2) theyre already developing soldier robots and power armor irl so i shoul be able to field it right about now

3) i figured that cyber enhancements would save on armor costs because you wouldnt have to add a bunch of electronic muslces or whatever

2) I've not seen any evidence of robot soldiers, and any powered exoskeleton (because that's all we've got at the moment) is at least five years away. Then you need to develop a way to armour the exoskeleton properly, which would probably take another five years to get to prototype stage, and another five or ten years to get to production. That's well into the early PMT.

3) what the hell? That's well into mid-PMT.

If, as you claim, you're an engineer, you should know this stuff, and you shouldn't have needed to ask whether titanium or tungsten would be a better choice for the armour.

[The Corparation]

1) i think its pretty realistic considering the nation size so im gonna keep on using it

2) theyre already developing soldier robots and power armor irl so i shoul be able to field it right about now

3) i figured that cyber enhancements would save on armor costs because you wouldnt have to add a bunch of electronic muslces or whatever

2) I've not seen any evidence of robot soldiers, and any powered exoskeleton (because that's all we've got at the moment) is at least five years away. Then you need to develop a way to armour the exoskeleton properly, which would probably take another five years to get to prototype stage, and another five or ten years to get to production. That's well into the early PMT.

You left out a big one. Power plant. Powered exoskeletons right now don't exactly have the range or endurance for support roles much less combat, and that really isn't going to change in the foreseeable future.

[New Vihenia]

selamat baru tahun. sorry to hear about your hard drive. that really sucks :/ (late I guess)

Thanks, Terimakasih much appreciated. Luckily however bulk of my 3D works and other supporting materials are in the surviving HDD.

____

Talking about exoskeleton.. hmm yeah it's kinda unfeasible in MT setting. Corp has a point about the power source.. the high power density and lightweight power source isn't here yet. While the exoskeleton require continuous power.

[Transnapastain]

1) Quick Tip: Most MT Rpers going for realism tend to ignore NS trackers.
2)Power Armor isn't MT. Neither is the kind of cybernetics you're thinking of. You won't be able to realistically field either of them anytime soon. The technology just isn't there yet.
3)You are not saving any money by cyberneticly enhancing every single one of your infantrymen.

1) i think its pretty realistic considering the nation size so im gonna keep on using it

2) theyre already developing soldier robots and power armor irl so i shoul be able to field it right about now

3) i figured that cyber enhancements would save on armor costs because you wouldnt have to add a bunch of electronic muslces or whatever

Considering your offending, now deleted, factbook entry regarding your MilTech posting, its quite obvious your intent is to troll the thread, not seek actual help from it, and you can stop any time now.

Regardless of your intent, don't come into a thread, ask for advice, and then blatantly disregard it, especially when its good advice. You don;t have to like it, or follow it, but why bother asking when you know you're just going to reply "Oh well, I'm just going to do it anyways. Its a waste of your time, which you're free to do somewhere else, and a waste of the posters times, which actually means something in the scheme of things. Even if they didn't address your specific question, if you post a question or idea, you agree that you might be told its not workable in any way. If you want to go on with it anyways, fine, then stop posting.

[Imperializt Russia]

Nobody even knows how exactly DU is used in tank armor...

Seems a simple enough concept to guess at.
A high-density material placed deep within the armour to bolster the protection of that arc.

I mean, even could it be more complex than that?

Well I'm finally interested in taking a crack at designing a tank. From the way I've described my forces, I've seen them generally described as Soviet themed and having a 'Cold War-era China' vibe, so I'm interested in basing the tank around those ideas.

Now I know that Soviet tanks generally had a lower profile than their Western counterparts, and generally had less fancy computers and electronic doodads, the same going for Chinese tanks.

This is good, as it plays into my growing fear of cyber attacks, jamming, electronic damage, and EMPs.

So I want to design a Soviet/Chinese themed MBT that minimizes the fancy technological aspect while still being NS worthy.

I guess, first and foremost, I should ask where do I start?

NS-worthy?
You start by jamming it full of electronic equipment.

Commie tanks had fewer electronics because their computing in the Cold War was not advanced as the West, amongst other reasons.

if i wanted to outfit a majority of my army(like 80-90%) with power armor would titanium or tungsten make for a better suit?

theyre all cyber-enhanced already so I dont hav e to worry about like adding super muslces to the suit or anything but i gotta make sure it can stop rpg hits and be emp-proofed

Hey, Sar.

Both materials are damned heavy and expensive.
I'd almost suggest just using steel.

i dont get it, whats wrong

im an engineer irl and i know how easy it is to make a suit of armor for someone

Please don't say that, it makes the rest of us look really bad.

He is an engineer.