NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #5

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

What does this programme entail beyond what we see in officer training?

Nothing, really, besides Latin, Greek, Sanskrit, geography, astronomy, engineering, kinetics, zoology, administration, and mathematics. It's basically officers' training + the usual fare in Theimioi universities.

Why does a private need zoology and sanskrit for seven years?

[Imperializt Russia]

Would this soldier be allowed in a MT environment?

"Allowed" is a very direct word. It would depend on who you were RPing with, and what they considered acceptable.
Personally, with their cloaking abilities and holographic weapons, I'd put them at a very early form of PMT.

[Registug]

@Registug: it is not a godmod. It is an mutual agreement based in geography which we (viz. New Tyran and I) have reached, that the place is mountainous and reaches -90 degrees Celsius in regularly.

Mountains can be climbed, flown over or sailed around. Dug through, blasted through, eroded by natural forces to create natural passageways.

what makes you think being impossibly cold is going to stop anyone. Do you know the temperature in space? Yet people have gone there.

It's a godmod that you have both agreed on to insulate both of you from each other, really. If the people you RP with have no problem with that, I can't exactly tell you to stop, but this shit really doesn't fly with me.


As for the other thing, I wouldn't spend seven years in uni just to get killed in a war. What an absurd waste of time, lives and resources.

[Themiclesia]

Nothing, really, besides Latin, Greek, Sanskrit, geography, astronomy, engineering, kinetics, zoology, administration, and mathematics. It's basically officers' training + the usual fare in Theimioi universities.

Why does a private need zoology and sanskrit for seven years?

Keeping up with the Jones's. Sanskrit is the the stepping stone for the understanding our national language which nobody actually speaks, but is required to know. Only grammar is covered in Sanskrit lectures. Zoology is needed in case he needs to survive in the wild without resource.

[Themiclesia]

@Registug: it is not a godmod. It is an mutual agreement based in geography which we (viz. New Tyran and I) have reached, that the place is mountainous and reaches -90 degrees Celsius in regularly.

Mountains can be climbed, flown over or sailed around. Dug through, blasted through, eroded by natural forces to create natural passageways.

what makes you think being impossibly cold is going to stop anyone. Do you know the temperature in space? Yet people have gone there.

It's a godmod that you have both agreed on to insulate both of you from each other, really. If the people you RP with have no problem with that, I can't exactly tell you to stop, but this shit really doesn't fly with me.


As for the other thing, I wouldn't spend seven years in uni just to get killed in a war. What an absurd waste of time, lives and resources.

I am stating that we have reached such an agreement which neither of us are imposing upon the other without his consent. You might not wish to RP with me, and (bless me) that I do not share a border with you. I can't fathom a greater contempt than the one that is embedded within your statement.

Otherwise, there are simply better ways to get to my country than through the mountains. If India invades mainland China, would they choose the route through the Himalayas?

[Dremaur]

I find it hard to find images to represent my troop

also, would it be acceptable to have a bomb that when it explodes it releases super nova-esque explosion that is a very hot flame that is thrown across the area?

[Alfegos]

@Thermiclesia: Surely you get your seven years of education at high school/secondary school/collège+lycée, to a sufficient level necessary to be of relatively decent learnedness for a foot soldier. You underestimate the capacity of people to learn, in many cases what are very basic skills.

As for the rest of you lot...
This being a military realism consultation thread and all that, I've been doing some work on chemical and biological weapons recently, for various anonymous parties on nationstates. Whilst I'm very clued up on the actual agents, their potencies and distribution, and how they interact with the human body, I'm less clued up on how to implement their deployment to a military force, and of large scale strategy.

My current thinking was to have the chemical and biological weapons controlled by a seperate agency, perhaps within an existing defence research body, and from there develop it in three strands:
- A strategic arsenal, as an auxilliary to nuclear weapons, for when nuclear weapons may not be desirable (e.g. Latency of effect, damage to infrastructure and landscape, etc.), targeting population, military, agriculture, and environment. This would combine strands developed by the US and USSR, with regards to mass deployment of agents against targets, to benefit a war effort both overtly and covertly.
- A tactical arsenal, for use in small scale confrontations. In this instance, one would be looking at gas as used as a weapon in the Iraq-Iran war, and previously in Vietnam (in a non-lethal capacity), and most significantly the first world war/Ethiopia.
- A covert arsenal, for black operations in support of special operations, political actions and unconventional approaches to COIN. This would be modelled more around South Africa's Project Coast, and perhaps more significantly the Rhodesian CBW programme.

As such, the manufacturing, decommissioning and stockpiling of such weapons would come under a single body, most likely with a core of dedicated staff using other military units on loan to move them and guard stores (likely the CBRN equipped units, on a rota). Whilst strategic stockpiles could be held alongside nuclear warheads (i.e. for aircraft spraying/cluster bombing/MIRV missile), I'm less certain as to what extent the tactical arsenal should be disseminated.

So, to what degree would one train troops to conduct offensive CB warfare at a tactical level, or rather how to use the weapons? Options:
> When forming combat brigades, defensively I was looking CBRN specialists deployed at a rate of 2-3 Platoons to each Brigade; or if you would, a CBRN battalion in every combat Division. Would one consider these guys as the ones to both stockpile, transfer and deploy these weapons, down the chain of command (i.e. Stockpile is at the Army level, CBRN logistics transfer the weapons as authorised by Corps/Division command to the brigade that is deploying them), or should they be solely used in their attached role for acting as the CBRN sentries and decontamination teams?
> If the latter is true, should I dedicate artillery units to using these devices? Whilst one would likely use missiles and artillery shells to deliver the goods, how would one go about deploying the gases in cloud form?

Which I suppose leads on to how they should be deployed Tactically
> munitions work, aye, but what about spraying the stuff from aircraft? Keep it to one branch (the army) to make life simple, or centralise it with the CBRN authority, or branch out to the other services (i.e. the Air force)?
> Cloud gas attacks, as in the first world war, a crap idea or a brilliant idea? From the little reading I've done, it seemed that in the first world war, the cloud gas attacks were responsible for the majority of casualties, and the highest concentrations.
> Do the navy have any conceivable use for CBWs? If so, what and where?
> Ditto with the paramilitary, for the lethal stuff - we'll assume they have the right, however restricted, to use CS and other incapacitants. Assume this isn't an evil dictator-state thing.

And, of course:
> To what level should CBRN defence units be bolstered, from the battalion per division level, if the battlefield does go chemical/biological?

Your thoughts please.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

As for the other thing, I wouldn't spend seven years in uni just to get killed in a war. What an absurd waste of time, lives and resources.

Learning sanskrit and zoology of all things...
Knowing the zoological name and exactly how its venom will dissolve you of a snake that's gonna eat you is not going to help. Knowing how to make a fire with two sticks on the other hand.

[Themiclesia]

As for the other thing, I wouldn't spend seven years in uni just to get killed in a war. What an absurd waste of time, lives and resources.

Learning sanskrit and zoology of all things...
Knowing the taxidermological name and exactly how its venom will dissolve you of a snake that's gonna eat you is not going to help. Knowing how to make a fire with two sticks on the other hand.

Taxidermy (taxidermy |ˈtaksəˌdərmē|
noun
the art of preparing, stuffing, and mounting the skins of animals with lifelike effect.)

has nothing to do with this. We are not creating stuffed specimens from wild animals. It is survival-oriented in that you get to know what is safe to eat and what isn't. In fact I never mentioned taxidermy.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Learning sanskrit and zoology of all things...
Knowing the taxidermological name and exactly how its venom will dissolve you of a snake that's gonna eat you is not going to help. Knowing how to make a fire with two sticks on the other hand.

Taxidermy has nothing to do with this. We are not creating stuffed specimens from wild animals. It is survival-oriented in that you get to know what is safe to eat and what isn't.

I don't think you understand half of what you're spouting right now.

[Imperializt Russia]

Why does a private need zoology and sanskrit for seven years?

Keeping up with the Jones's. Sanskrit is the the stepping stone for the understanding our national language which nobody actually speaks, but is required to know. Only grammar is covered in Sanskrit lectures. Zoology is needed in case he needs to survive in the wild without resource.

A six-week survival course could teach you all you need to know about hunting, camping, limited resource, navigation without instrument and friendly flora, also evading the enemy, and even their dogs. The rest should be "I know what direction my country/front line is. I will walk that way".
You don't need a degree in zoology. You just don't.

Even if one of those languages is for encryption in communications, you don't need to learn three in addition to your spoken language.

It should also be pointed out, that the US proposed the spending of approximately $300,000 per forces personnel member for 2013. This would have paid for soldier's pay, benefits, the VA, the GI bill, their immediate equipment, housing, bases, security, the ability to deploy on operations and everything else from the half-million gallons of oil to let an armoured division fight for a day, or the USS Independence to use thirty times that amount.
$455 billion dollars of expenditure that isn't procurement or defence research spending.
You're proposing spending four times that, seemingly primarily on their education and training alone.

[Registug]

Otherwise, there are simply better ways to get to my country than through the mountains. If India invades mainland China, would they choose the route through the Himalayas?

They've done so in the past.

[Primordial Luxa]

Hey guys
Could i get some comments on these?
Armored Division
Infantry Division

From a brief look, your Armoured and Infantry Brigades don't look particularly off at all.

I'm a little confused as to the purpose of a "Combined Arms Brigade" within the Divisions, and I feel you need an explicit Artillery Brigade for the Division itself.

Its something that US was developing so I figured Id give it a try to see if it had any advantages.
Sure thing any advice on making an artillery brigade?

[Themiclesia]

You're proposing spending four times that, seemingly primarily on their education and training alone.

But we don't operate the USS Independent, and nor do we keep a half-a-million persons standing army. Assuming the spending of $1.2 million per person in training courses over 7 years, and a total of 7000 people recruited per annum, we get an annual expenditure in these areas in the amount of 58 billion, which my nation can reasonably fund.

This doesn't yet include our budget for other military expenses.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Otherwise, there are simply better ways to get to my country than through the mountains. If India invades mainland China, would they choose the route through the Himalayas?

They've done so in the past.

Welcome to Aksai Chin, altitude 4,300 Mean Sea Level, and one of the two stages of the Sino-Indian War of 1962.

[Themiclesia]

Otherwise, there are simply better ways to get to my country than through the mountains. If India invades mainland China, would they choose the route through the Himalayas?

They've done so in the past.

And has China been conquered as a result?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

They've done so in the past.

And has China been conquered as a result?

This is a fallacy because conquering China would bankrupt India in the process and drain it of manpower.

[Themiclesia]

They've done so in the past.

Welcome to Aksai Chin, altitude 4,300 Mean Sea Level, and one of the two stages of the Sino-Indian War of 1962.

And a person's mind (for males especially) does not fully mature at age 18. A good example being myself, when I am still spewing out unreasonable arguments about spending inordinate amounts of money in training.

This is a fallacy because conquering China would bankrupt India in the process and drain it of manpower.

So, she hasn't been conquered; I see no reason why the same cause won't stop my neighbour from occupying my country.

[Imperializt Russia]

From a brief look, your Armoured and Infantry Brigades don't look particularly off at all.

I'm a little confused as to the purpose of a "Combined Arms Brigade" within the Divisions, and I feel you need an explicit Artillery Brigade for the Division itself.

Its something that US was developing so I figured Id give it a try to see if it had any advantages.
Sure thing any advice on making an artillery brigade?

Your Armoured and Infantry brigades already have some artillery, a couple of howitzers and a couple of MLRS.
The Division-level artillery formation would basically just be more artillery.

Significantly more gun tubes, significantly more MLRS units and also some SRBMs or heavy artillery rockets for good measure.

Believing in all things Soviet, I retained the Machine Gun and Artillery Division, traditionally assigned to a Front on operation, which provided supporting fire to the Divisions of the Front.
I issue a regiment of SSM launchers, primarily Iskanders, to this Division, which in practice splits off to provide supporting SSM fire to each Division, the Artillery Regiments of which also feature SSM launchers. Rifle Divisions are loaned more launchers than Tank Divisions.

You're proposing spending four times that, seemingly primarily on their education and training alone.

But we don't operate the USS Independent, and nor do we keep a half-a-million persons standing army. Assuming the spending of $1.2 million per person in training courses over 7 years, and a total of 7000 people recruited per annum, we get an annual expenditure in these areas in the amount of 58 billion, which my nation can reasonably fund.

This doesn't yet include our budget for other military expenses.

Then what this means is that you're spending an incredible quantity of money per soldier, not just per soldier, but physically on each service personnel member.
Going into literally ludicrous realms.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Welcome to Aksai Chin, altitude 4,300 Mean Sea Level, and one of the two stages of the Sino-Indian War of 1962.

And a person's mind (for males especially) does not fully mature at age 18. A good example being myself, when I am still spewing out unreasonable arguments about spending inordinate amounts of money in training.

So, she hasn't been conquered.

Because conquering China would be a ridiculous enterprise in wasting resources. Also are you the third largest nation in the World with the most population numbering in the billions? If no then you're gonna be a walkover.

[Registug]

Alright, a quick and easy way to solve this.

If you had to spend 7 years learning sanskrit, geography, zoology, latin, greek, astronomy, engineering, kinetics, administration and mathematics in addition to the rigours and tribulations you have to go through in OCS and military basic training, would you sign up for the armed forces?

I assume that everyone here is pretty average. A question for everyone: if you had to do 7 years of uni, OCS and basic training to become a soldier, would you do so?

[Themiclesia]

But we don't operate the USS Independent, and nor do we keep a half-a-million persons standing army. Assuming the spending of $1.2 million per person in training courses over 7 years, and a total of 7000 people recruited per annum, we get an annual expenditure in these areas in the amount of 58 billion, which my nation can reasonably fund.

This doesn't yet include our budget for other military expenses.

Then what this means is that you're spending an incredible quantity of money per soldier, not just per soldier, but physically on each service personnel member.
Going into literally ludicrous realms.

Yes, I will start reducing the training requirements once I get pass this difficult phase in my academic career.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Alright, a quick and easy way to solve this.

If you had to spend 7 years learning sanskrit, geography, zoology, latin, greek, astronomy, engineering, kinetics, administration and mathematics in addition to the rigours and tribulations you have to go through in OCS and military basic training, would you sign up for the armed forces?

I assume that everyone here is pretty average. A question for everyone: if you had to do 7 years of uni, OCS and basic training to become a soldier, would you do so?

I'd get a high paying academic job in the uni as a lecturer instead of risking my life.

[Themiclesia]

And a person's mind (for males especially) does not fully mature at age 18. A good example being myself, when I am still spewing out unreasonable arguments about spending inordinate amounts of money in training.

So, she hasn't been conquered.

Because conquering China would be a ridiculous enterprise in wasting resources. Also are you the third largest nation in the World with the most population numbering in the billions? If no then you're gonna be a walkover.

Well, if the world is called New Odessa, we are a populous country and our neighbour has about 3% more people than we do.

[Primordial Luxa]

Its something that US was developing so I figured Id give it a try to see if it had any advantages.
Sure thing any advice on making an artillery brigade?

Your Armoured and Infantry brigades already have some artillery, a couple of howitzers and a couple of MLRS.
The Division-level artillery formation would basically just be more artillery.

Significantly more gun tubes, significantly more MLRS units and also some SRBMs or heavy artillery rockets for good measure.

Believing in all things Soviet, I retained the Machine Gun and Artillery Division, traditionally assigned to a Front on operation, which provided supporting fire to the Divisions of the Front.
I issue a regiment of SSM launchers, primarily Iskanders, to this Division, which in practice splits off to provide supporting SSM fire to each Division, the Artillery Regiments of which also feature SSM launchers. Rifle Divisions are loaned more launchers than Tank Divisions.

Okay thanks ill get right on it.
Anything else that looked off?

Also can someone just declare war on Themiclesia? I think the only way hell learn in through experience, other wise your wasting your breath.