NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #5

[Vladastova]

As a small City State (737 square kilometers) and a nation at risk of invasion what would be our nations best defense against Mechanized Infantry and Tanks. Also would I be better off with Anti-Air systems rather then a full fledged Air Force (aside from helicopters and utility aircraft).

[Tule]

As a small City State (737 square kilometers) and a nation at risk of invasion what would be our nations best defense against Mechanized Infantry and Tanks. Also would I be better off with Anti-Air systems rather then a full fledged Air Force (aside from helicopters and utility aircraft).

RPG's.

RPG's everywhere.

If you have room for an airport then get yourself some interceptors. Either way, a lot of SAM's certainly wouldn't hurt.

[Gallia-]

As a small City State (737 square kilometers) and a nation at risk of invasion what would be our nations best defense against Mechanized Infantry and Tanks. Also would I be better off with Anti-Air systems rather then a full fledged Air Force (aside from helicopters and utility aircraft).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Armed_Forces

[Chebucto Provinces]

What kind of things would I need to do to update WW1 and WW2 era coastal defense forts for modern use? Specifically by reservists who would form both a coastal defense pool and the reserve for actual field artillery. They would use the same towed 155mm artillery (I think the G5) as field artillery uses.

I think, for my typical three-gun fort I can do the following:
- Large gun pits, such as former 9.2 inch gun emplacements, would be heavily modified to allow a G5 to be backed/driven into it, set up, and if needed fired.
- Other pits/emplacements would be modified to allow parking of mobile fire director vehicles and other assorted support vehicles for their use.
- Updated/modern accommodations, power, and other ancillary parts.

A little bit of work for the engineers/construction units, and a durable parking placement for the equipment for the reservists to practice. All on existing government infrastructure or land.

For proper coastal defense in the modern world, I should mix in some truck-mounted anti-shipping missiles and smaller ones like those Norwegian Hellfire mounts, right? Perhaps as accessories to the forts, and for actual use in coastal defense. I don;t see the forts being ever used, or seriously intended for defense. Maybe a SHTF situation, but that's a stretch to sat the least.

Could I perhaps take the same approach to modifying such old forts to national air defense? Station a Hawk battery at these forts as well, and maybe some gun-based close defense?

You will need lots of long-range SAM and radar installations.
If you plan to use guns in defense at least try guided models such as Excalibur, but keep them hidden because they will loose to cruise missiles and air strikes, and most likely lack the capacity to sink most ships with ease unlike an AShM.

It's note like Chebucto is a very large country. Five Patriot batteries could provide complete and unbroken coverage of the entire nation. And besides that they will be regular force.

That said, the guns as anti-shipping would not be their primary role. They would be there for that, keep alive the tradition and lineage of those historical forces, and most importantly to provide reserve troops to the relatively small regular force artillery unit. If they are firing at enemy ships in defense of Chebucto, then something has gone horribly horribly wrong to the point of world-ending disaster.

The forts would therefore provide a training/stationing area for reservists. A feel-good defensive capability, and a reserve pool for high-need personnel.

I will also convert/replace some such forts with modern defenses in permanent regular force use, like the small ABM capability Chebucto will retain.

6th Air Defense Battalion will provide a few long range surface to air missile batteries. Probably four Patriot missile batteries, and four Rapier batteries to complete the Battalion. That will be the permanent national air defense regular force element. One of each at Yarmouth and Sydney, and two of each in Halifax/Dartmouth.

Actually, that makes me wonder now. I want to keep RL tech but I don't mind some minor modification. Would it be possible to make a land-based variant of something like the Standard missile? If I could use the same missile for my navy and national defense it would make more sense to a small country. Perhaps build a fixed SM-1ER/SM-2ER site in the 1980s in 1-3 key locations around the nation using modified twin-arm launchers. Upgrade the system in the 2010s using VLS and newer missiles like the SM-3 and SM-6. Would that work or would there be problems?

[Zeinbrad]

Oh boredom,how I love you.

Time for a stationary (More often than not last ditch) AA station,


Artemis AA station.
Weight-5,495 kg
Armament- 35mm Gatling gun.
Rate of fire-5,139 rounds per minute
Range-15.459 ft
Ammunition storage-3.240 rounds.

This is for the GDF marines, which are basically UN peacekeepers but more combat focused.

[Romic]

Oh boredom,how I love you.

Time for a stationary (More often than not last ditch) AA station,


Artemis AA station.
Weight-5,495 kg
Armament- 35mm Gatling gun.
Rate of fire-5,139 rounds per minute
Range-15.459 ft
Ammunition storage-3.240 rounds.

This is for the GDF marines, which are basically UN peacekeepers but more combat focused.

Time Period?

[Chebucto Provinces]

Ok, I have an idea for a permanent national aerospace defense site. Fort McNab, located on McNabs Island, Halifax harbor, for the purpose of defending Halifax and surrounding areas. A permanent, fortified site to be started in the mid-1980s and become operational mid 1993.

Using the USN Aegis system as a basis, it would have a single primary missile control radar site. This would be a land based Aegis system, quite literally. Mounted centrally on the island. The island would also have three fortified Mk.41 VLS-based launch sites, and support services. The batteries would be:
- Stawberry Battery: With two reinforced concrete silos housing two 8-cell strike length VLS modules each.
- Huggoin Battery: With two reinforced concrete silos housing two 8-cell strike length VLS modules each.
- McNab Battery: With three reinforced concrete silos housing two 8-cell strike length VLS modules each.

This would total 112 missiles total. The mixture would be long and mid range SAMs. Maybe mix in some Tomahawk (Very few) and VL-ASROC?

Support at Fort Ives with a small unit of infantry for security, as well as support services.

I could use this as a basis for ABMs as in the SM-3 right?

[Zeinbrad]

Oh boredom,how I love you.

Time for a stationary (More often than not last ditch) AA station,


Artemis AA station.
Weight-5,495 kg
Armament- 35mm Gatling gun.
Rate of fire-5,139 rounds per minute
Range-15.459 ft
Ammunition storage-3.240 rounds.

This is for the GDF marines, which are basically UN peacekeepers but more combat focused.

Time Period?

The future.

[Vladastova]

As a small City State (737 square kilometers) and a nation at risk of invasion what would be our nations best defense against Mechanized Infantry and Tanks. Also would I be better off with Anti-Air systems rather then a full fledged Air Force (aside from helicopters and utility aircraft).

RPG's.

RPG's everywhere.

If you have room for an airport then get yourself some interceptors. Either way, a lot of SAM's certainly wouldn't hurt.

As a small City State (737 square kilometers) and a nation at risk of invasion what would be our nations best defense against Mechanized Infantry and Tanks. Also would I be better off with Anti-Air systems rather then a full fledged Air Force (aside from helicopters and utility aircraft).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Armed_Forces

Thank you both for the information and opinions.

I think what I'll do is for anti-armor tactics I'll issue soldiers with the RPG-29 probably one per Section Group or few if need be as well as lots of tank Barricades throughout the city. And as for the air defense issue I'll operate a large amount of SAM sights through the city (hidden in plain view) as well as three squadrons of Mikoyan MiG-31's for air defense.

Also due to my militaries small size (48,000 enlisted troops total) would it be sensible to have members of the Reserves operate as the nations police force and be trained as both officers and soldiers?

[Questers]

Can you explain how something can be hidden in plain view please.

[Romic]

RPG's.

RPG's everywhere.

If you have room for an airport then get yourself some interceptors. Either way, a lot of SAM's certainly wouldn't hurt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Armed_Forces

Thank you both for the information and opinions.

I think what I'll do is for anti-armor tactics I'll issue soldiers with the RPG-29 probably one per Section Group or few if need be as well as lots of tank Barricades throughout the city. And as for the air defense issue I'll operate a large amount of SAM sights through the city (hidden in plain view) as well as three squadrons of Mikoyan MiG-31's for air defense.

Also due to my militaries small size (48,000 enlisted troops total) would it be sensible to have members of the Reserves operate as the nations police force and be trained as both officers and soldiers?

Possibly Small amounts not the whole force though. Special Police Divisions possible

[Vladastova]

Thank you both for the information and opinions.

I think what I'll do is for anti-armor tactics I'll issue soldiers with the RPG-29 probably one per Section Group or few if need be as well as lots of tank Barricades throughout the city. And as for the air defense issue I'll operate a large amount of SAM sights through the city (hidden in plain view) as well as three squadrons of Mikoyan MiG-31's for air defense.

Also due to my militaries small size (48,000 enlisted troops total) would it be sensible to have members of the Reserves operate as the nations police force and be trained as both officers and soldiers?

Possibly Small amounts not the whole force though. Special Police Divisions possible

Precisely what I was thinking of. A section of the Territorial Ground Defense Army reserve can volunteer to join for extra pay and go through a training course and operate as the Nations police force.

Can you explain how something can be hidden in plain view please.

Eh not in total sign of the population but like small SAM signs will be placed on buildings and be meant to look as if it's part of the air contrition unite which are normally placed on top of buildings or hidden along the outskirts of the city.

[Romic]

Possibly Small amounts not the whole force though. Special Police Divisions possible

Precisely what I was thinking of. A section of the Territorial Ground Defense Army reserve can volunteer to join for extra pay and go through a training course and operate as the Nations police force.

Can you explain how something can be hidden in plain view please.

Eh not in total sign of the population but like small SAM signs will be placed on buildings and be meant to look as if it's part of the air contrition unite which are normally placed on top of buildings or hidden along the outskirts of the city.

Bingo you got it, run with it boy! lol

@ Questers
You know how towns will have small military memorials with unusable weapons do that but make them operable.

[Gallia-]

Operable SAMs usually involve wide, open spaces and lots of men running around tying on cables. Of course you can always just see that the radars are turned on or something.

It would be quite obvious, actually.

[Romic]

Operable SAMs usually involve wide, open spaces and lots of men running around tying on cables. Of course you can always just see that the radars are turned on or something.

It would be quite obvious, actually.

It's an idea never said a good one

However what about a collapsible building hiding the SAM?

[Vladastova]

Precisely what I was thinking of. A section of the Territorial Ground Defense Army reserve can volunteer to join for extra pay and go through a training course and operate as the Nations police force.



Eh not in total sign of the population but like small SAM signs will be placed on buildings and be meant to look as if it's part of the air contrition unite which are normally placed on top of buildings or hidden along the outskirts of the city.

Bingo you got it, run with it boy! lol

@ Questers
You know how towns will have small military memorials with unusable weapons do that but make them operable.

I might just do this for other services just so I don't have my reserves sitting around doing nothing until they do their bi-monthly training session which really just keeps their physical capabilities and marksmen skills at an acceptable level until they are needed for Defense or are put on active duty as part of our rolling active duty program.

[Gallia-]

The thing that will be bombed is the radar, not the missile launcher.

[Romic]

The thing that will be bombed is the radar, not the missile launcher.

put the Radar in an amusement park as a theme prop?

[Gallia-]

Sadly even if you disguise the radar are a large snowglobe, it would still be bombed.

[Gaveria]

Can you explain how something can be hidden in plain view please.

You put something out in the open and make it look like something else....

For example; the US could put a ICBM launch site in Florida and say it's just part of NASA's stuff. So the site is ''hidden'' in plain view.

Hiding a SAM site in plan view is alot harder but not impossible with a dedicated,motivated and extremely well-funded force.

[Oaledonia]

Sadly even if you disguise the radar are a large snowglobe, it would still be bombed.

What if it's an Oale radar?

[Gallia-]

Sadly even if you disguise the radar are a large snowglobe, it would still be bombed.

What if it's an Oale radar?

Hugged to death by Shrike-chan.

[Romic]

Sadly even if you disguise the radar are a large snowglobe, it would still be bombed.

Make a radar look like a Radar and maybe the opposing force will think "Really are those people that dumb? Nahhhh..." And not bomb it.. *nod*

[Hasmonea]

RPG's.

RPG's everywhere.

If you have room for an airport then get yourself some interceptors. Either way, a lot of SAM's certainly wouldn't hurt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Armed_Forces

Thank you both for the information and opinions.

I think what I'll do is for anti-armor tactics I'll issue soldiers with the RPG-29 probably one per Section Group or few if need be as well as lots of tank Barricades throughout the city. And as for the air defense issue I'll operate a large amount of SAM sights through the city (hidden in plain view) as well as three squadrons of Mikoyan MiG-31's for air defense.

Eh. While I'm not sure what exactly is a 'section group', but a RPG-29 is almost certainly too heavy a weapon to be issued at the section or even squad level. For one, it demands a dedicated crew of two to lug around and function effectively.

The RPG-7 is a much more lightweight and compact weapon that is perfectly adequate against tanks - the PG-7VR warhead achieves ~750mm of penetration; capable of penetrating pretty much any tank from the side or rear, as well as certain (mostly legacy) MBTs frontally, while having a range of warheads useful in other roles (such as HE-FRAG or thermobaric). Meanwhile, LAW/RPG-22 could be handed out to the rank and file to bolster anti-tank capability.

You'll want mines, a lot of mines. Artillery and aircraft-laid mines, too.

Also due to my militaries small size (48,000 enlisted troops total) would it be sensible to have members of the Reserves operate as the nations police force and be trained as both officers and soldiers?

Sounds like you want a Gendarmerie.

[Oaledonia]

What if it's an Oale radar?

Hugged to death by Shrike-chan.

yay.
Cuz everything that enters the Imazunese jurisdiction area becomes anthropomorphic and chibi.