NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #5

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Nope, it's fine.
Seems it's only if you want to change the number of options that the poll resets.
Or it's an issue that the admin staff rectified.

[Triplebaconation]

There's no need for a nuclear turboprop to be closed-cycle or (bizarrely) closed-cycle with an "electric propeller engine."

[Pharthan]

You can use a nuclear reactor to power an electric propeller engine, but it has to be a closed-cycle design that's very light. Reactor shielding is unfortunately extremely heavy.

That's why you limit shielding to the crew compartment and pick the rest of your materials carefully, keeping in mind which ones are bad to keep in a neutron flux.

[New Vihenia]

Continuing my Marielle Class



Thar she looks for now..

Determination of equipment weight and volume are still on-going, however multiplying the everbuoyant and submerged volume with standard seawater density can give very good approximate on surfaced and submerged displacement of a sub.

Preliminary statblock is also available :

Some are still the same...As before
Length Overall : 59.462 m
Beam of Hull : 8 m
Total Beam : 9.4 m
Draft ; ~6.4-7 m
Crew :30
Mission Endurance : 70 days

Metric ton for standard sea density (1.0275 ton/cubic meter)
Surfaced displacement : 1745 metric ton
Submerged displacement :2303 metric ton

Submerged speed :
Maximum :22-25 knot
Tactical speed : 8-10 knot sustained for 4 days with battery, With AIP this can extend to 30 days (Need to be calculated..results follow)

Propulsions :
2 Diesel generator, 1 permanent magnet motor rated at 6700 Shp.

Armaments :
6x 650mm Torpedo tubes capable of spamming cruise missiles, expendable UAV and Torpedo

Sensors :
-"Global" Sonar suite with spherical bow array, low frequency flank array, mine hunting active array and 1 Km active-passive low frequency towed array
-"Soks" wake detector.. sniffing for possible kelvin wakes of other submarine, a very short range sensor
-"Irina" Radar and ESM suite.
-Cavitation detector.

Other features :
-Rescue capsule, allowing escape at all depth for all crew. The capsule contains 7 days worth emergency supplies and equipped with homing beacon. Electric power is also provided through Solid oxide fuel cell device to provide heating for crews. The capsule located within sail and double up as hatch.

-Free flood compartment for accommodating insertion or extraction of special forces

So far the sizing looks fine to me at least. But thoughts are welcome.

Anyway.. as a "Byproduct" I make myself a spreadsheet to calculate Submerged range for conventional sub with electric propulsion.

The sheet is based on "Submarine Design" Book written by Ulrich Gabler the founder of IKL adn Senior german submarine designer Which responsible for virtually all post-war German Submarine design and design of some WW-II U-boat.

Download Section :
Diesel Electric Battery Range

The sheet is quite straightforward to use.

[Alduinium]

So, say I want to support a group of terrorists freedom fighters. How should I go about supporting them, especially since I would much rather not get caught doing it?

[Voltrovia]

So, say I want to support a group of terrorists freedom fighters. How should I go about supporting them, especially since I would much rather not get caught doing it?

That is quite a broad question!

If you were to expand your explanation of the situation I could probably help you better.

On a very basic level, fronts for funding and the illicit passing of arms and weaponry (as well as the deployment of non-uniformed tacticians and advisors) is always a good start.

[Purpelia]

So, say I want to support a group of terrorists freedom fighters. How should I go about supporting them, especially since I would much rather not get caught doing it?

That depends largely on the opponent they are facing. Give us what they have to kill and we'll tell you how to help them kill it.

[Alduinium]

So, say I want to support a group of terrorists freedom fighters. How should I go about supporting them, especially since I would much rather not get caught doing it?

That is quite a broad question!

If you were to expand your explanation of the situation I could probably help you better.

On a very basic level, fronts for funding and the illicit passing of arms and weaponry (as well as the deployment of non-uniformed tacticians and advisors) is always a good start.

Essentially, some superpower I don't like invades a third world country (I.E. Vietnam/Afghanistan) and I want to make life hell for him. I'm definitely going to send over some advisors, maybe a few special forces, and if I really, really don't want them to win without a fight, have a regiment or two 'go rogue' and run off to defend said third world country.

So, say I want to support a group of terrorists freedom fighters. How should I go about supporting them, especially since I would much rather not get caught doing it?

That depends largely on the opponent they are facing. Give us what they have to kill and we'll tell you how to help them kill it.

For now, let's say a typical USA clone.

[Purpelia]

For now, let's say a typical USA clone.

How committed are they? Is this a limited police action like Afghanistan or a full on invasion like late Vietnam?

[Alduinium]

For now, let's say a typical USA clone.

How committed are they? Is this a limited police action like Afghanistan or a full on invasion like late Vietnam?

Seeing as to how this is NS, let's assume full on invasion.

[Purpelia]

How committed are they? Is this a limited police action like Afghanistan or a full on invasion like late Vietnam?

Seeing as to how this is NS, let's assume full on invasion.

What are the rebels doing? Do they have any terrain advantage like mountains or jungles to hide in? Describe the situation for us.

Since really, this is about determining what equipment they need, which of those they can actually use to effect and finally how to deliver those.

[Alduinium]

Seeing as to how this is NS, let's assume full on invasion.

What are the rebels doing? Do they have any terrain advantage like mountains or jungles to hide in? Describe the situation for us.

Since really, this is about determining what equipment they need, which of those they can actually use to effect and finally how to deliver those.

The terrain is mostly savannah, rainforest, grassland, and desert, with a few mountains here and there. Most of the rebels have a decent education, and a few have experience with both Warsaw Pact and NATO gear.

[Purpelia]

What are the rebels doing? Do they have any terrain advantage like mountains or jungles to hide in? Describe the situation for us.

Since really, this is about determining what equipment they need, which of those they can actually use to effect and finally how to deliver those.

The terrain is mostly savannah, rainforest, grassland, and desert, with a few mountains here and there. Most of the rebels have a decent education, and a few have experience with both Warsaw Pact and NATO gear.

So no really convenient place for them to make secret camps or for you to run secret deliveries through?

[Alduinium]

The terrain is mostly savannah, rainforest, grassland, and desert, with a few mountains here and there. Most of the rebels have a decent education, and a few have experience with both Warsaw Pact and NATO gear.

So no really convenient place for them to make secret camps or for you to run secret deliveries through?

Can the rainforests be used as secret camps?

[Purpelia]

So no really convenient place for them to make secret camps or for you to run secret deliveries through?

Can the rainforests be used as secret camps?

Actually probably yes.

[Alduinium]

Can the rainforests be used as secret camps?

Actually probably yes.

Okay, that's good. Also, since I'm starting to purchase M1A2's for my military, I wonder if it would be a good idea to teach them how to use them.

[Krazeria]

Because I know how much this thread loves Kirov's, here's a proposition: I'm planning of completely redeveloping my nation over the summer and being the man I am I want my navy to have a group of large Kirov type ships which would act as flagships and generally be used to intimidate my neighbors. From all that I've gathered, the Kirov suffers from three main problems: Its armament is lacking for its weight compared to ships like the Slava class, its nuclear reactors aren't powerful enough to propel it to max speed without the help of conventional power and its value for money is lower then more versatile vessels such as light aircraft cruisers.

Going form this, if these problems could be rectified, with the exception of value for money, would having a fleet of at max five kirov style ships be effective . Again going from this, what would be the best way to rectify these problems?

Come hell or high water I will some day have a practical modern battle cruiser!

[Anacasppia]

If you take the Kirov and 'rectify' these problems, you wouldn't quite have a Kirov anymore...

[Krazeria]

If you take the Kirov and 'rectify' these problems, you wouldn't quite have a Kirov anymore...

I feel like all of its problems could be fixed by adding more weapons and more powerful reactor

but hey, my solution to all problems is to just add more weapons

Soviet stonk

[Velkanika]

Actually probably yes.

Okay, that's good. Also, since I'm starting to purchase M1A2's for my military, I wonder if it would be a good idea to teach them how to use them.

No tanks, they have a very large logistics footprint and can't be used by a guerrilla force effectively. Using videogames for reference is generally a bad idea, but this ARMA III guide is a great overview of the basics of guerrilla warfare.

---

You can use a nuclear reactor to power an electric propeller engine, but it has to be a closed-cycle design that's very light. Reactor shielding is unfortunately extremely heavy.

That's why you limit shielding to the crew compartment and pick the rest of your materials carefully, keeping in mind which ones are bad to keep in a neutron flux.

Do you know the part about chickens in a barnyard coop from Dr. Strangelove? That scene describes my opinion on the matter. It'll work, but I have to question the sanity of implementing it.

---

Because I know how much this thread loves Kirov's, here's a proposition: I'm planning of completely redeveloping my nation over the summer and being the man I am I want my navy to have a group of large Kirov type ships which would act as flagships and generally be used to intimidate my neighbors. From all that I've gathered, the Kirov suffers from three main problems: Its armament is lacking for its weight compared to ships like the Slava class, its nuclear reactors aren't powerful enough to propel it to max speed without the help of conventional power and its value for money is lower then more versatile vessels such as light aircraft cruisers.

Going form this, if these problems could be rectified, with the exception of value for money, would having a fleet of at max five kirov style ships be effective . Again going from this, what would be the best way to rectify these problems?

Come hell or high water I will some day have a practical modern battle cruiser!

The Kirov is practical for its intended role. The nuclear reactor gives it long-range endurance without refueling while the steam turbines give it excellent "sprint" performance for when it needs to move really fast to evade a torpedo or something. As it will never have to move at flank speed for more then a few minutes, it doesn't need a steam turbine as the primary propulsion system. The nuclear plant on the other hand was a little too primitive to provide enough power to get it up to that ridiculous flank speed, hence the second engine plant

Now, if you want it to be 'optimized' all you can really do is completely replace the engine rooms with a single modern nuclear reactor and associated equipment. You can't add more missiles without removing some just like you can't redesign the superstructure without creating new radars from scratch. A Kirov is designed the way it is mostly for the sake of the radars, so you won't get any increase in performance by trying to turn it into a Ticonderoga-class with a red star on the bow.

Don't try to turn the Kirov into a Tico. We'll mock you.

[Purpelia]

Actually probably yes.

Okay, that's good. Also, since I'm starting to purchase M1A2's for my military, I wonder if it would be a good idea to teach them how to use them.

Insurgents and tanks don't mix. They need rifles, RPG's and depending on the terrain and combat conditions MANPAD's, machine guns, mortars and other similar stuff.

[Alduinium]

Okay, that's good. Also, since I'm starting to purchase M1A2's for my military, I wonder if it would be a good idea to teach them how to use them.

Insurgents and tanks don't mix. They need rifles, RPG's and depending on the terrain and combat conditions MANPAD's, machine guns, mortars and other similar stuff.

Eh, I wasn't going to give them any, I was just going to give them some training in case they managed to steal some M1A2's from the notUSA force they'll be going up against.

[Purpelia]

Insurgents and tanks don't mix. They need rifles, RPG's and depending on the terrain and combat conditions MANPAD's, machine guns, mortars and other similar stuff.

Eh, I wasn't going to give them any, I was just going to give them some training in case they managed to steal some M1A2's from the notUSA force they'll be going up against.

Don't bother. They are better off destroying them than trying to use them.

[Krazeria]

Because I know how much this thread loves Kirov's, here's a proposition: I'm planning of completely redeveloping my nation over the summer and being the man I am I want my navy to have a group of large Kirov type ships which would act as flagships and generally be used to intimidate my neighbors. From all that I've gathered, the Kirov suffers from three main problems: Its armament is lacking for its weight compared to ships like the Slava class, its nuclear reactors aren't powerful enough to propel it to max speed without the help of conventional power and its value for money is lower then more versatile vessels such as light aircraft cruisers.

Going form this, if these problems could be rectified, with the exception of value for money, would having a fleet of at max five kirov style ships be effective . Again going from this, what would be the best way to rectify these problems?

Come hell or high water I will some day have a practical modern battle cruiser!

The Kirov is practical for its intended role. The nuclear reactor gives it long-range endurance without refueling while the steam turbines give it excellent "sprint" performance for when it needs to move really fast to evade a torpedo or something. As it will never have to move at flank speed for more then a few minutes, it doesn't need a steam turbine as the primary propulsion system. The nuclear plant on the other hand was a little too primitive to provide enough power to get it up to that ridiculous flank speed, hence the second engine plant

Now, if you want it to be 'optimized' all you can really do is completely replace the engine rooms with a single modern nuclear reactor and associated equipment. You can't add more missiles without removing some just like you can't redesign the superstructure without creating new radars from scratch. A Kirov is designed the way it is mostly for the sake of the radars, so you won't get any increase in performance by trying to turn it into a Ticonderoga-class with a red star on the bow.

Don't try to turn the Kirov into a Tico. We'll mock you.

All noted

My idea is the have a class of ships that are very kirov like, but using mostly locally developed technologies and weapons. My basic idea was to have a the ships superstructure closer to the rear of the ship to allow for more space on the bow for missiles and a much more powerful modern reactor to allow for greater speed and more space for weapons systems.

[Kampala-]

Kirov is a bad ship the only reason you'd use it is because you're too poor to afford something better.