NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #5

[Questers]

Spending per head, realistically, should not exceed 400 ish.

I suppose the question is the metric. US defense spending in 2013 per active-duty soldier was ~$490,000. Including reserves and National Guard though it drops to ~$310,000, but they don't receive the same payment or compensation as active duty soldiers, nor do they consume as much of the training or deployment budget. And of course it changes if compensation is removed and only direct procurement and training costs per head are considered. So I suppose the question is which metric is it supposed to use?

A Humvee would be an APC. The reason APC is included is it adds off-road, protected, transport capacity, which is a force multiplier. As opposed to IFV which is a straight up battle wagon. Trucks would be "other" vehicles.

Actually, yea, humvee would not count as an APC. Dunno what I was thinking. It is neither armoured nor is it a personnel carrier.

I'd put them in the "other vehicles" category for the time being, looks like I don't have to change it.

Yea, it's a good question. The metric is not standardised yet - if both sides use the same metric, it doesn't matter. So for me that is a problem to work out at the end, although - my measure is total spending / total personnel.

[Immoren]

Why would they need kitchen, if they almost solely eat pastes?

Where are they going to store that paste?

It's more of a food storage thing, and I'm thinking Charons can buy different kind of food, if they have the money.

I think the Japanese did that during WW2.

Well. I did notice that unit lacks organic logistics/stores unit...

[Zeinbrad]

Where are they going to store that paste?

It's more of a food storage thing, and I'm thinking Charons can buy different kind of food, if they have the money.

I think the Japanese did that during WW2.

Well. I did notice that unit lacks organic logistics/stores unit...

Come again?

[The Akasha Colony]

Yea, it's a good question. The metric is not standardised yet - if both sides use the same metric, it doesn't matter. So for me that is a problem to work out at the end, although - my measure is total spending / total personnel.

I only wonder since even IRL, there are some unusual accounting practices in terms of classifying soldiers as well as funding. Pretty much everyone has a pretty similar definition of active-duty, but when the question of reserves comes up, and how they impact spending, it gets complicated. Which is why initially I used my active spending ($520k per head), rather than the lower including reserves number ($314k). I still haven't worked out how the militia factors into it.

[Isle of Lost]

So this would replace your HMMWVs only for armored patrol?

Edit:

1. Something like a V-100 with a 90mm gun won't work well for armored patrol. I don't know what your definition of armored patrol is, what do you want to use this for exactly? A HMG or perhaps even light AC would be much better suited IMO. And really, the V-100 and similar vehicles won't work well for armored patrol, especially not with a cannon on top, because they are really meant to be scouts or lightweight fire support vehicles, not APCs, they're kind of cramped and only have room for very few dismounts, if at all.

2. V-hulls are OK, and I suppose the vehicle's amphibious capability further justifies it. Keep in mind however that depending on how pronounced they are, they impart a higher center of gravity and inherent higher risk of rollover. If you're imagining an amphibious MRAP, don't bother.

3. Unless you plan to use this as a landing vehicle too (LVTP style) which I don't really recommend, how it performs in rough seas shouldn't concern you too much as you should probably have a specialized vehicle for that. And you don't really want to overload your vehicles especially when they're to cross a body of water. Again, I'm not very knowledgeable, but as long as you keep it decent, it will probably just "sink" more in water and move slower because of the added weight.

1. Yes, it would replace the HMMWVs used in front-line service.

2. I never wanted a 90mm gun on it, which is another reason I turned down the Cadillac Gage Commando (another other major reason being the versions without the 90mm are older and do not have as great protection as the Direct Fire version.) I am sorry if I worded this wrong, but a 90mm gun was never even an option for the Cavall.

3. The Cavall isn't an MRAP, it is just an armored patrol vehicle. I will not assume it will withstand an IED, just that the V-Hull and other armor capabilities I have not listed will protect the crew. Vehicles can be replaced, lives cannot.

4. Rough water is an unavoidable concern for my Armed Forces. Being a completely island nation and the countless number of operations the Armed Forces have undertaken in the maritime or marsh environment due the said environment and the similar environments of the countries we are most likely to involve ourselves with. Several more factors at play here, just know we prefer maritime environments and being able to launch the Cavall from a ship would free up many LCVs for un-amphibious vehicles.

I understand the added weight could be treacherous (although unless it is something extremely heavy the Cavall will not sink because it is not an open top vehicle), but I was questioning how far within the "green zone" of floating I am with only 0.24m of freeboard to spare.

[Padnak]

I'm currently involved in an rp which has pitted me against another nation which has a vastly superior navy, and it has exposed a number of weaknesses in my own significantly less powerful navy

As it stands my navy is primarily comprised of outdated soviet vessels (my logic being that Padnak purchesd most of its large ships from the soviet union/russia when it was decomisening a large amount of its ships), oastal patrol ships, gun boats and missile boats

my navy can be found here

What sort of vessels would be most optimal for a navy mainly tasked with territorial defense, patrol of oil fields, escort of merchant ships through disputed areas and aggression against a modern and well lead hostile navy?

[Mitheldalond]

So this would replace your HMMWVs only for armored patrol?

Edit:

1. Something like a V-100 with a 90mm gun won't work well for armored patrol. I don't know what your definition of armored patrol is, what do you want to use this for exactly? A HMG or perhaps even light AC would be much better suited IMO. And really, the V-100 and similar vehicles won't work well for armored patrol, especially not with a cannon on top, because they are really meant to be scouts or lightweight fire support vehicles, not APCs, they're kind of cramped and only have room for very few dismounts, if at all.

2. V-hulls are OK, and I suppose the vehicle's amphibious capability further justifies it. Keep in mind however that depending on how pronounced they are, they impart a higher center of gravity and inherent higher risk of rollover. If you're imagining an amphibious MRAP, don't bother.

3. Unless you plan to use this as a landing vehicle too (LVTP style) which I don't really recommend, how it performs in rough seas shouldn't concern you too much as you should probably have a specialized vehicle for that. And you don't really want to overload your vehicles especially when they're to cross a body of water. Again, I'm not very knowledgeable, but as long as you keep it decent, it will probably just "sink" more in water and move slower because of the added weight.

1. Yes, it would replace the HMMWVs used in front-line service.

2. I never wanted a 90mm gun on it, which is another reason I turned down the Cadillac Gage Commando (another other major reason being the versions without the 90mm are older and do not have as great protection as the Direct Fire version.) I am sorry if I worded this wrong, but a 90mm gun was never even an option for the Cavall.

3. The Cavall isn't an MRAP, it is just an armored patrol vehicle. I will not assume it will withstand an IED, just that the V-Hull and other armor capabilities I have not listed will protect the crew. Vehicles can be replaced, lives cannot.

4. Rough water is an unavoidable concern for my Armed Forces. Being a completely island nation and the countless number of operations the Armed Forces have undertaken in the maritime or marsh environment due the said environment and the similar environments of the countries we are most likely to involve ourselves with. Several more factors at play here, just know we prefer maritime environments and being able to launch the Cavall from a ship would free up many LCVs for un-amphibious vehicles.

I understand the added weight could be treacherous (although unless it is something extremely heavy the Cavall will not sink because it is not an open top vehicle), but I was questioning how far within the "green zone" of floating I am with only 0.24m of freeboard to spare.

1. If you mean replace only Humvees being used as combat vehicles, then yes it would work. If you mean replace all Humvees, including ones used for non-combat transport and logistical purposes, then no. The LAV-150 (I assume that's the version you're talking about) is not a general purpose truck, it's a light AFV. If you want a general Humvee replacement, I'd recommend looking into the Joint Light Tactical Vehicle program or the Combat Tactical Vehicle, which is what I went with.

2. There is literally no reason you can't swap out the 90mm gun for a 20mm autocannon, or a machine gun and grenade launcher combo, seeing as how they took off the 20mm to install the 90mm turret. There is also no reason you can't modernize a Commando; That's almost exactly what the M1117 is. Though the M1117 isn't amphibious. Adding more armor to a Commando would probably have negative effects when it comes to seaworthiness though.

3. Technically speaking, lives can be replaced. That's what recruitment centers are for.

4. Not being open topped won't stop it from sinking. There are quite a few seams around viewports, doors, the turret ring, etc where water can leak in. If you try to drive through too heavy seas in an armored truck, it is going to sink. Even large sea-faring ships can sink in rough weather.

[Zeinbrad]

Made a small change to the Charon regiment, added the K-93 Light Assault Vehicle.

Charon HQ-Lord and his retinue.
1,245 or 2,455 all ranks.
Battle Recon Unit.
- BMPT (About 6 or 7)
-BTR-D (10 or 12)
-A platoon of motobikes.
1st Combat Company.
2nd Combat Company.
3rd Combat Company.
4th Combat Company
Tank Company (About 40 or 45 2S25's, 75 K-93's of all variants)
Artillery Company ( 16 2S1 Gvozdika's)
AA Company (15 9K22 Tunguska's)
Field Kitchen (Normally serves just different flavored nutrient paste, only serves real food during religious events)
Vehicle Workshops/Technical support
Field Hospital.

What do you think? Anything missing?

[The Soodean Imperium]

I'm currently involved in an rp which has pitted me against another nation which has a vastly superior navy, and it has exposed a number of weaknesses in my own significantly less powerful navy

As it stands my navy is primarily comprised of outdated soviet vessels (my logic being that Padnak purchesd most of its large ships from the soviet union/russia when it was decomisening a large amount of its ships), oastal patrol ships, gun boats and missile boats

my navy can be found here

What sort of vessels would be most optimal for a navy mainly tasked with territorial defense, patrol of oil fields, escort of merchant ships through disputed areas and aggression against a modern and well lead hostile navy?

For that kind of "green water" capability, you'll probably want more corvettes and fewer destroyers. Given that you're operating an old Soviet-bloc navy, you may want to look into small combat corvettes - preferably Tarantul-III and Molniya, which carry the supersonic P-270 Anti-Ship Missile. Based on your factbook, it looks like you already have a few of these; replacing Tarantul-I with Tarantul-III may be in order, as the P-15 missile is rather outdated by today's standards.

As this thread covered a while back (I think), corvettes with supersonic AShMs aren't a "silver bullet" that will have you dashing out of safety to kill carrier battlegroups in a flash; but for a less developed nation, they're a decent option, and certainly better than trying to meet the superior enemy fleet toe-to-toe with cruisers and destroyers.

[Immoren]

Well. I did notice that unit lacks organic logistics/stores unit...

Come again?

The subunit that hold all the supplies (water, ammo, food, spareparts, etc) and vehicles to transport those supplies to the other subunits.

[Zeinbrad]

Come again?

The subunit that hold all the supplies (water, ammo, food, spareparts, etc) and vehicles to transport those supplies to the other subunits.

Um......

I guess I should add that....

[Velkanika]

The subunit that hold all the supplies (water, ammo, food, spareparts, etc) and vehicles to transport those supplies to the other subunits.

Um......

I guess I should add that....

I'd put that at the next level up in your organization. Your Regiments won't be able to operate very independently anyways due to lacking combined arms integration, so you might as well put the logistics integration at whatever that level is.

[Oaledonia]

Would it be possible to make Protect Pluto compatible with contra-rotating props and stick it on a fuckhuge bomber?

[Immoren]

Okay, let me try again for the Charon Independent Units.

Charon HQ-Lord and his retinue.
1,245 or 2,455 all ranks.
Battle Recon Unit.
- BMPT (About 6 or 7)
-BTR-D (10 or 12)
-A platoon of motobikes.
1st Combat Company.
2nd Combat Company.
3rd Combat Company.
4th Combat Company
Tank Company (About 40 or 45 10 or 14 2S25's)
Artillery Company battalion ( 16 2S1 Gvozdika's)
AA Company (15 8 9K22 Tunguska's)
Field Kitchen (Normally serves just different flavored nutrient paste, only serves real food during religious events)
Vehicle Workshops/Technical support
Field Hospital.
regimental stores
regimental depot
What do you think? Anything missing?

[Zeinbrad]

Okay, let me try again for the Charon Independent Units.

Charon HQ-Lord and his retinue.
1,245 or 2,455 all ranks.
Battle Recon Unit.
- BMPT (About 6 or 7)
-BTR-D (10 or 12)
-A platoon of motobikes.
1st Combat Company.
2nd Combat Company.
3rd Combat Company.
4th Combat Company
Tank Company (About 40 or 45 10 or 14 2S25's)
Artillery Company battalion ( 16 2S1 Gvozdika's)
AA Company (15 8 9K22 Tunguska's)
Field Kitchen (Normally serves just different flavored nutrient paste, only serves real food during religious events)
Vehicle Workshops/Technical support
Field Hospital.
regimental stores
regimental depot
What do you think? Anything missing?

Thank you.

[San-Silvacian]

The newer ships the Russian navy is commissioning.

Also the Chinese navy as well.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

On the subject of Multiple packing VLS, I know you can pack things in side by side, but would it be possible to pack one on top of another? With some sort of eject-able shield covering the lower missiles. Not planning on doing this on any of my MT Ships, just had it in mind for one of my FT Spaceships and am curious as to its viability.

Think it would be rather hard. The shield would have to be sturdy enough to protect the second missile from the exhaust of the first one, which would probably dig into available space. Secondly ejecting the shield would be problematic, requiring either one of the missiles launch with it, and then discard it or the launcher removing it at some point.

1. Normal VLS cells are deep. Like "it defines the draught of the ship" deep.

2. As noted, the Russians developed a multiple-use carousel-loaded cold-launch VLS system, if you've got enough hull-depth, you just may be able to get a stack to autoload.

[The Kievan People]

Would it be possible to make Protect Pluto compatible with contra-rotating props and stick it on a fuckhuge bomber?

No. This would require a closed cycle engine that would be completely different than the reactor designed for pluto.

[Imperializt Russia]

Do you think you'll add in some kind of training modifier? So say you could input something to determine the outcome between some Royal Marine Commandos, and some Kimgsmen of the Duke of Lancaster's Regiment, and the difference in training quality could have an effect on it.

EDIT: christ, IDT locked due to bollocks and rabid anti-Brit fappery and counter fappery. :<

Really is because NS is filled with annoying English nationalism.

We've got to hold our own against the MURRICA crowd.

Would it be possible to make Protect Pluto compatible with contra-rotating props and stick it on a fuckhuge bomber?

That'd defeat the point of using the Tory reactor.

Check out the Tu-95LaL.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

So far:

Questers: 6
Gallia-: 4
Velk: 3
Kyiv: 1
Akasha: 1
Lamoni: 1
Lyras 1
Lubyak: 1

Did anyone else get nominated after this?
If not, I'll put the poll up now.

Only person I found using the search function was Spirit nominating himself (sorry, not permitted I'm afraid :/ though, I never nominated someone so I'll nominate you now)

This is my Nomination. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Nominee: Spirit of Hope

And lo, nominating is closed and polling is open.

[Velkanika]

Really is because NS is filled with annoying English nationalism.

We've got to hold our own against the MURRICA crowd.

It's hardly our fault we've had to bail you out of both World Wars, the Suez Crisis, and the Falklands.

Would it be possible to make Protect Pluto compatible with contra-rotating props and stick it on a fuckhuge bomber?

That'd defeat the point of using the Tory reactor.

Check out the Tu-95LaL.

You can use a nuclear reactor to power an electric propeller engine, but it has to be a closed-cycle design that's very light. Reactor shielding is unfortunately extremely heavy.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

As such, Tu-95LaL (if it were to run on nuclear power, of course) rather than the Tory reactor.

That should do it for the poll. If it doesn't work as expected (one vote each, re-voting permitted), shout at me.

[The Akasha Colony]

So far:

Questers: 6
Gallia-: 4
Velk: 3
Kyiv: 1
Akasha: 1
Lamoni: 1
Lyras 1
Lubyak: 1

Did anyone else get nominated after this?
If not, I'll put the poll up now.

Only person I found using the search function was Spirit nominating himself (sorry, not permitted I'm afraid :/ though, I never nominated someone so I'll nominate you now)

This is my Nomination. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Nominee: Spirit of Hope

And lo, nominating is closed and polling is open.

This might seem like nitpicking, and I think editing the poll might reset it (so better to do it now, if it will be done), but Kyiv and my names are slightly off. They're both singular.

[Imperializt Russia]

Since we've only seven votes, I reckon I will change that.

[The Akasha Colony]

Since we've only seven votes, I reckon I will change that.

Thanks. It looks like it didn't reset, either.