NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #5

[Questers]

Tried to make the Charon unit ORBAT/ Organization.

I did not know what that I was doing. :/

It has taken me three years to get to where I am now on my ToEs. Military organization is exceedingly complex,

Not really. When you get it, you get it.

[Zeinbrad]

Tried to make the Charon unit ORBAT/ Organization.

I did not know what that I was doing. :/

It has taken me three years to get to where I am now on my ToEs. Military organization is exceedingly complex, so don't feel too bad about how little you know. Wikipedia has some phenomenal articles on the US Brigade Combat Teams, so that's a good starting place if you want to read an in-depth explanation of why the US Army looks like it does. Coincidentally, I'm using the BCTs as the starting place for my military due to needing my maneuver elements to be Regiments instead of Divisions.

The Ragon military organization are based off eastern organization.

More Soviet I'm thinking.

[Vedria]

Would the use of a sidearm for a regular infantry man still be effective, given the current nature of assault weapons? In my opinion, you could replace the side arm and its ammo for more ammunition for the primary weapon, giving it more endurance in combat.

If the above statement's answer is that sidearms are still effective, would it better to use a small machine pistol in exchange of a semi-automatic pistol?

"regular infantry men" (whatever that means) are not issued with sidearms.

Oh. In that case, for infantry that do use sidearms (special forces, etc...), would a small machine pistol be better than a semi-automatic pistol?

[The Akasha Colony]

Tried to make the Charon unit ORBAT/ Organization.

I did not know what that I was doing. :/

You have to know what you want, and above all resist the common NS impulse to add more and more to be the biggest and the baddest, since that just makes you the slowest and most overburdened. TO&Es are made to fulfill the doctrine of the nation that develops them, which means you need to have a decent feel about how the unit is going to be operating in the first place before you can organize it.

It has taken me three years to get to where I am now on my ToEs. Military organization is exceedingly complex,

Not really. When you get it, you get it.

That doesn't necessarily make it any less complex a subject. It's a matter of how long it might take to "get it," which in turn relies on a number of factors.

[Questers]

you have to exit tropecity to enter toecity.

[Questers]

Speaking of Toecity, the PLA army organisation is pretty interesting. The divisions are still a virtual copy of the Soviet equivalent but the overall composition is quite irregular. The PLA has entire divisions for air defence, for instance. They have brigaded much of their Army though. I have gleamed quite a bit of info here so if anyone who wants to model off China's modern army is welcome to ask questions.

[Imperializt Russia]

On the subject of Multiple packing VLS, I know you can pack things in side by side, but would it be possible to pack one on top of another? With some sort of eject-able shield covering the lower missiles. Not planning on doing this on any of my MT Ships, just had it in mind for one of my FT Spaceships and am curious as to its viability.

Think it would be rather hard. The shield would have to be sturdy enough to protect the second missile from the exhaust of the first one, which would probably dig into available space. Secondly ejecting the shield would be problematic, requiring either one of the missiles launch with it, and then discard it or the launcher removing it at some point.

It shouldn't be too difficult to physically build an arrangement, it probably would be infeasible for a cold-launch system, but you'd just build an exhaust vent for the upper missile canister that feeds into a kind of chimney that both canisters share. The issue comes with ejecting the first canister. I'm leaning towards not suitable, but could easily be wrong.

I'll pester samoz on skype tonight to put the poll up.

I should probably turn on Skype.
Well, now the thread's unlocked, I was going to ask when people should let off the Nominations. I'll do it whenever the next page ends. Or now, or whatever.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KGiMLDyxZgzrjTEV-ykvm0Td65svTJBRwcXupp3ew_c/edit#gid=1451851681 reposting.

in the works is air superiority, which, if present, is degraded by the strength (quantity and quality) of opposing air defence.

Would you like this listed somewhere in the OP? Then whoever gets next thread can copy it into theirs, as well.

Big signs that say "TAKE THIS EXIT" and these things:

(Image)

"Military Diversions Enforced By Attack Helicopters"

This discussion is reminding me of the WW2 incidents in which German special units disguised as Allied MPs or something deliberately mis-directed convoys.

Could such a thing be pulled off in the modern day?

I was going to say yes, but like Kyiv said, it's of greatly limited utility.

The Germans did it because by the end of the war they were literally trying anything and everything to make them take one less mile of land.

It is a waste of valuable personnel TBH.

Misdirecting convoys for a few hours is not going to meaningfully disrupt the flow of supplies to the front. Units tend to carry at least a days worth of supplies with them (or more), so even a massive short-term disruption will not necessarily reduce their combat power at all. And on the flip side personnel who can blend in comfortably with enemy soldiers are a huge asset, there are much better uses for them then giving bad directions.

The other big thing is that if a soldier participates in combat while wearing an enemy uniform they are committing a war crime and are likely to be executed if captured. This is a very risky operation for the people who understand the enemy well enough to execute this mission, who coincidentially would also be well suited as intelligence analysts interpreting SIGINT.

An unarmed man dressed as an MP is not participating in combat operations, strictly.
That was how I interpreted it.

I believe the laws of war state that you can undertake operations in another nation's uniform if you are unarmed, weirdly.

Speaking of Toecity, the PLA army organisation is pretty interesting. The divisions are still a virtual copy of the Soviet equivalent but the overall composition is quite irregular. The PLA has entire divisions for air defence, for instance. They have brigaded much of their Army though.

That is interesting, actually.

[Zeinbrad]

Okay, I am writing a battle taking place during my story, anyone mind helping with it?

Here is what I have so far.

Basing it off the events in this video (For the first day) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMZN8fCiGyI

And the other one, for the second day of the battle.

The Battle of Buffalo Ridge.

April 12th 2134 (I haven't decide how long this war will be, but it will be costly for both sides)

General Nicolaas Tiede Van Hanraets, known as "Old Man Hanraets" due to his old age (In his 60's) and his 23,203 Boer militia, hoping to capture the industrial factories in the towns of New Gustav, marched to the town, hoping for a small EDF garrison. After crossing the Loca river, Nicolaas ordered the 12th Raider Group to scout ahead, to make sure his hunch of a small EDF garrison was true, on April 10th, the 12 raider group came with news.

There was a EDF garrison of about 12,302 guarding the town, soldiers of the 12th Fusilier and 24th Hussars, and they didn't know about Nicolaas and his army, at least for now.

Nicolaas now had a tough decision to make, whether to engage the EDF garrison in battle, or not.

On April 11th, he had made his decision, he would engage the EDF garrison, ordering the artillery under his command to begin bombardment as his militia began preparations.

The battle at first, was nothing but skirmishes between patrols and the Boer raiders causing havoc behind EDF lines. On April 12th, 10:00 PM, Nicolaas ordered 15,203 Boer militia to advance on the town. The Boer militia, advanced on the EDF troops, specially near a small hamlet of Kasu, which had a road connecting Kasu to New Gustav, fighting in Kasu ended in Boer victory, with 17 Boers killed to 25 EDF soldiers.

Another focal point of the battle was another road,specially the tavern known as Sana. Nicolaas, seeing Sana begin build on a small ridge overlooking the battle, did not want go give the EDF the tavern, thinking it would be useful both as a command post and a place to position his artillery. The tavern Sana, though the first and second day, changed hands about five or seven times.

[Questers]

I believe the laws of war state that you can undertake operations in another nation's uniform if you are unarmed, weirdly.

Back in the day there were a lot of military observers who would go to watch battles. Maybe they didn't want to wear their own country's uniform as it may have looked bad diplomatically.

Btw, Gurkhas and LE are the only two combat formations in the world that are not considered mercenaries despite being foreign soldiers.

[Questers]

Okay, I am writing a battle taking place during my story, anyone mind helping with it?

Here is what I have so far.

Basing it off the events in this video (For the first day) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMZN8fCiGyI

And the other one, for the second day of the battle.

The Battle of Buffalo Ridge.

April 12th 2134 (I haven't decide how long this war will be, but it will be costly for both sides)

General Nicolaas Tiede Van Hanraets, known as "Old Man Hanraets" due to his old age (In his 60's) and his 23,203 Boer militia, hoping to capture the industrial factories in the towns of New Gustav, marched to the town, hoping for a small EDF garrison. After crossing the Loca river, Nicolaas ordered the 12th Raider Group to scout ahead, to make sure his hunch of a small EDF garrison was true, on April 10th, the 12 raider group came with news.

There was a EDF garrison of about 12,302 guarding the town, soldiers of the 12th Fusilier and 24th Hussars, and they didn't know about Nicolaas and his army, at least for now.

Nicolaas now had a tough decision to make, whether to engage the EDF garrison in battle, or not.

On April 11th, he had made his decision, he would engage the EDF garrison, ordering the artillery under his command to begin bombardment as his militia began preparations.

The battle at first, was nothing but skirmishes between patrols and the Boer raiders causing havoc behind EDF lines. On April 12th, 10:00 PM, Nicolaas ordered 15,203 Boer militia to advance on the town. The Boer militia, advanced on the EDF troops, specially near a small hamlet of Kasu, which had a road connecting Kasu to New Gustav, fighting in Kasu ended in Boer victory, with 17 Boers killed to 25 EDF soldiers.

Another focal point of the battle was another road,specially the tavern known as Sana. Nicolaas, seeing Sana begin build on a small ridge overlooking the battle, did not want go give the EDF the tavern, thinking it would be useful both as a command post and a place to position his artillery. The tavern Sana, though the first and second day, changed hands about five or seven times.

"about" is an approximation. never use it for precise numbers.

remove all numbers themselves and use letters.

there are a great deal of grammar mistakes.

it's ok but it is not a story.

[Zeinbrad]

Okay, I am writing a battle taking place during my story, anyone mind helping with it?

Here is what I have so far.

Basing it off the events in this video (For the first day) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMZN8fCiGyI

And the other one, for the second day of the battle.

The Battle of Buffalo Ridge.

April 12th 2134 (I haven't decide how long this war will be, but it will be costly for both sides)

General Nicolaas Tiede Van Hanraets, known as "Old Man Hanraets" due to his old age (In his 60's) and his 23,203 Boer militia, hoping to capture the industrial factories in the towns of New Gustav, marched to the town, hoping for a small EDF garrison. After crossing the Loca river, Nicolaas ordered the 12th Raider Group to scout ahead, to make sure his hunch of a small EDF garrison was true, on April 10th, the 12 raider group came with news.

There was a EDF garrison of about 12,302 guarding the town, soldiers of the 12th Fusilier and 24th Hussars, and they didn't know about Nicolaas and his army, at least for now.

Nicolaas now had a tough decision to make, whether to engage the EDF garrison in battle, or not.

On April 11th, he had made his decision, he would engage the EDF garrison, ordering the artillery under his command to begin bombardment as his militia began preparations.

The battle at first, was nothing but skirmishes between patrols and the Boer raiders causing havoc behind EDF lines. On April 12th, 10:00 PM, Nicolaas ordered 15,203 Boer militia to advance on the town. The Boer militia, advanced on the EDF troops, specially near a small hamlet of Kasu, which had a road connecting Kasu to New Gustav, fighting in Kasu ended in Boer victory, with 17 Boers killed to 25 EDF soldiers.

Another focal point of the battle was another road,specially the tavern known as Sana. Nicolaas, seeing Sana begin build on a small ridge overlooking the battle, did not want go give the EDF the tavern, thinking it would be useful both as a command post and a place to position his artillery. The tavern Sana, though the first and second day, changed hands about five or seven times.

"about" is an approximation. never use it for precise numbers.

remove all numbers themselves and use letters.

there are a great deal of grammar mistakes.

it's ok but it is not a story.

Okay.

This is not the story, but an event in it....

You can help me with via TG if you want. I don't mind.

My grammar sucks, okay.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

I'd love it if someone could review this post. Because I'm unsure on like most of everything from his use of satellites to his deployment locations.

[Imperializt Russia]

I believe the laws of war state that you can undertake operations in another nation's uniform if you are unarmed, weirdly.

Back in the day there were a lot of military observers who would go to watch battles. Maybe they didn't want to wear their own country's uniform as it may have looked bad diplomatically.

Btw, Gurkhas and LE are the only two combat formations in the world that are not considered mercenaries despite being foreign soldiers.

Well, they are official military formations and not actual mercenary organisations.

[Triplebaconation]

Contrary to popular belief, there's little international law about uniforms. The only real prohibition is against using enemy uniforms for treachery or perfidy. Obviously you can wear an ally's uniform with no restrictions whatsoever.

Being a spy isn't a war crime. Incredible.

Operation Greif was a huge success when you compare the confusion it caused to the minuscule resources invested.

[Isle of Lost]

Hey everyone!

I am developing an armored patrol vehicle to replace the HMMWVs currently being used with my armed services. A contender I have looked at in the past was the Cadillac Gage Commando, specifically the new Commando Select 90mm Direct Fire version, and I was impressed but for several minor reasons decided I'd take a stab at creating my own. One of the things about the Commando that left a major impression on me, however, is the vehicle's amphibious abilities.

This is where I need a little help. The Cavall, what I have decided to name my vehicle, with utilize a V-Hull design to both protect the crew from IEDs and light to medium landmines as well as the following amphibious abilities that correlate to a V Hull: Good ability to hold a steered direction at speed and excellent performance in rough waters (the latter being essential to the Cavall's design if the Cavall is to operate during amphibious landings like I hope it too).

The Cavall has a maximum freeboard limit of 1.88m thanks to a very high bow (1.64m is the vehicle's generic freeboard under normal weight conditions), but I am unsure as to how exactly how well the extra 0.24m of freeboard allowed will hold up under:
A. Heavyweight conditions (vehicle loaded past suggested amount due to various military emergency scenarios)
and
B. Rough Seas (the hull design, while effect on rough seas, does not affect the bow.)


Any help, questions, comments, needed information or did is my research holding up for once?


-Thanks!

[Primordial Luxa]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KGiMLDyxZgzrjTEV-ykvm0Td65svTJBRwcXupp3ew_c/edit#gid=1451851681 reposting.

in the works is air superiority, which, if present, is degraded by the strength (quantity and quality) of opposing air defence.

OMG this thing is amazing.

[Questers]

Whoever put the latest stats in: thanks. That's the kind of testing I need. I think the sheet is overplaying technology advantage atm. I have played around with the stats a lot and released v1.2, which includes air superiority.

[Primordial Luxa]

Whoever put the latest stats in: thanks. That's the kind of testing I need. I think the sheet is overplaying technology advantage atm. I have played around with the stats a lot and released v1.2, which includes air superiority.

That was me, sorry if i mess up any settings or anything.
I tired to simulate my upcoming battle with China and I must say that is a fantastic resource.
Its just the kind of logistical information that Ns desperately needs and once its done I plan to introduce my region to it.

[Questers]

Whoever put the latest stats in: thanks. That's the kind of testing I need. I think the sheet is overplaying technology advantage atm. I have played around with the stats a lot and released v1.2, which includes air superiority.

That was me, sorry if i mess up any settings or anything.
I tired to simulate my upcoming battle with China and I must say that is a fantastic resource.
Its just the kind of logistical information that Ns desperately needs and once its done I plan to introduce my region to it.

No, it's good. From what I saw there I think the calculator was overvaluing tech. For example you had 20,000 chinese troops but 10 replicated formation, so over 200,000 troops! And only 8,000 troops on Force A, and Force A still won. At some point I would like to include a relative size modifier but I am not really good enough at maths (or spreadsheets... yet) to do that.

The spreadsheet is probably useable now, to be honest. Are there any suggestions or anything you would like to see?

[Gallia-]

It's ok for Kampala. But when you have to direct entire tank regiments, you need something a bit beefier.

Questarian traffic control comes under Security Corps (i.e MPs, rear line security.) They use the XA 180.

(Image)

Are you implying Kampala doesn't have a entire tank regiment?

He has one.

Exactly one.

words

So how does this deflate my argument? Gameplay and roleplay are separate entities on Nationstates.

[The Akasha Colony]

That was me, sorry if i mess up any settings or anything.
I tired to simulate my upcoming battle with China and I must say that is a fantastic resource.
Its just the kind of logistical information that Ns desperately needs and once its done I plan to introduce my region to it.

No, it's good. From what I saw there I think the calculator was overvaluing tech. For example you had 20,000 chinese troops but 10 replicated formation, so over 200,000 troops! And only 8,000 troops on Force A, and Force A still won. At some point I would like to include a relative size modifier but I am not really good enough at maths (or spreadsheets... yet) to do that.

The spreadsheet is probably useable now, to be honest. Are there any suggestions or anything you would like to see?

Do rotary wing aviation units fall into the "other vehicles" category? Or are they meant to count as "air support?"

[Questers]

No, it's good. From what I saw there I think the calculator was overvaluing tech. For example you had 20,000 chinese troops but 10 replicated formation, so over 200,000 troops! And only 8,000 troops on Force A, and Force A still won. At some point I would like to include a relative size modifier but I am not really good enough at maths (or spreadsheets... yet) to do that.

The spreadsheet is probably useable now, to be honest. Are there any suggestions or anything you would like to see?

Do rotary wing aviation units fall into the "other vehicles" category? Or are they meant to count as "air support?"

They are meant to be in other vehicles, BUT - I want to find some way to abstract them into working separately. Possibly by relativising them against the other side's air defence (like air power) before calculating their combat value (which will be high.)

[The Akasha Colony]

Do rotary wing aviation units fall into the "other vehicles" category? Or are they meant to count as "air support?"

They are meant to be in other vehicles, BUT - I want to find some way to abstract them into working separately. Possibly by relativising them against the other side's air defence (like air power) before calculating their combat value (which will be high.)

Looks like hilarious spending-per-head pays off. Although that also means I do need to sit down and tabulate up all of the miscellaneous vehicles I would have; they're sitting around in various places but I've never totalled them up aside from tanks, IFVs, reconnaissance vehicles, and non-mortar artillery.

EDIT: I was also wondering a bit about the APC category; does it simply include all armed vehicles even if they are not expected to engage in combat? For instance, do the Humvees attached to company/battalion/brigade command count if they're armed with MGs, even if they aren't meant to be frontline combat vehicles? Or even APC/IFV-derived command vehicles, also armed and armored, but not expected to fight?

[Zeinbrad]

It has taken me three years to get to where I am now on my ToEs. Military organization is exceedingly complex, so don't feel too bad about how little you know. Wikipedia has some phenomenal articles on the US Brigade Combat Teams, so that's a good starting place if you want to read an in-depth explanation of why the US Army looks like it does. Coincidentally, I'm using the BCTs as the starting place for my military due to needing my maneuver elements to be Regiments instead of Divisions.

The Ragon military organization are based off eastern organization.

More Soviet I'm thinking.

Know any reliable sources for soviet unit organization?

I would look, but I don't which ones are reliable, accurate sources.

[The New Lowlands]

The Ragon military organization are based off eastern organization.

More Soviet I'm thinking.

Know any reliable sources for soviet unit organization?

I would look, but I don't which ones are reliable, accurate sources.

Have you checked the OP?