NATION

PASSWORD

NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #5

A place to put national factbooks, embassy exchanges, and other information regarding the nations of the world. [In character]

Advertisement

Remove ads

Thread Author #6 Poll

Questers
41
34%
Gallia-/Kampala-
12
10%
Velkanika
8
7%
The Kievan People/Kyiv
29
24%
The Akasha Colony
5
4%
Spirit of Hope
4
3%
Lamoni
5
4%
Lyras
10
8%
Lubyak
5
4%
 
Total votes : 119

User avatar
Vitaphone Racing
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10123
Founded: Aug 25, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Vitaphone Racing » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:28 am

Velkanika wrote:
Triplebaconation wrote:
Bad weather will degrade radar and IR to some extent, plus at the low altitudes you'd expect for an airfield attack vision and hearing are still important. The chances of encountering defending patrols is smaller.

Historically bad weather has been preferred for low-level attacks - even before the proliferation of very expensive all-weather navigation and targeting aids, which would seem to be wasted if only used on clear nights.

You do not want to fly below 2,000 feet above ground level in bad weather, it's extremely dangerous at best and probably suicidal. Between microbursts, ridiculously bad turbulence, and the general lack of visibility you better have one hell of a pilot if you plan on sending an aircraft toting a bomb load through that.
Firmador wrote:So bad or good weather for a strategic-sized air operation?

It could be useful to achieve tactical surprise at serious risk of death if a pilot has to fly through much more then a light rain storm while simultaneously trying not to catch a SAM.

When you say "bad weather, it's extremely dangerous at best and probably suicidal", are you talking about typhoons or something stronger?
Parhe on my Asian-ness.
Parhe wrote:Guess what, maybe you don't know what it is like to be Asian.

ayy lmao

User avatar
Kouralia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15066
Founded: Oct 30, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kouralia » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:31 am

Gallia- wrote:It's abridged. The actual version is 1,200 pages.

Oh well, the 400 page abridged Unclassified version is good enough for me.
send doots
Islas Malvinas
The Times of Kurton - National News Source
Risen Britannia wrote:"England has been invaded at various points throughout its history. Fortunately, every invader mysteriously became English when they took over, thus leaving England undefeated."


User avatar
Velkanika
Minister
 
Posts: 2641
Founded: Sep 23, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Velkanika » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:36 am

Vitaphone Racing wrote:
Velkanika wrote:You do not want to fly below 2,000 feet above ground level in bad weather, it's extremely dangerous at best and probably suicidal. Between microbursts, ridiculously bad turbulence, and the general lack of visibility you better have one hell of a pilot if you plan on sending an aircraft toting a bomb load through that.

It could be useful to achieve tactical surprise at serious risk of death if a pilot has to fly through much more then a light rain storm while simultaneously trying not to catch a SAM.

When you say "bad weather, it's extremely dangerous at best and probably suicidal", are you talking about typhoons or something stronger?

Moderate or greater intensity rain storms and any kind of lightening/hail storm or worse is the definition of bad weather that it's stupid to fly into. There's not enough visibility and too much turbulence, crosswinds, downdrafts, or other kinds of very unexpected airflow at work to safely fly below 5,000 feet.

No amount of training can make this any less of a stupid idea, Galla.
Last edited by Velkanika on Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
The necessity of a navy, in the restricted sense of the word, springs, therefore, from the existence of a peaceful shipping, and disappears with it, except in the case of a nation which has aggressive tendencies, and keeps up a navy merely as a branch of the military establishment. 1
1Alfred T. Mahan, The Influence of Sea Power Upon History, 1660-1783, 12th ed. (Boston: Little Brown and Company, 1890), 26.

Please avoid conflating my in-character role playing with what I actually believe, as these are usually quite different things.


User avatar
Vitaphone Racing
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10123
Founded: Aug 25, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Vitaphone Racing » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:42 am

Velkanika wrote:
Vitaphone Racing wrote:When you say "bad weather, it's extremely dangerous at best and probably suicidal", are you talking about typhoons or something stronger?

Moderate or greater intensity rain storms and any kind of lightening/hail storm or worse is the definition of bad weather that it's stupid to fly into. There's not enough visibility and too much turbulence, crosswinds, downdrafts, or other kinds of very unexpected airflow at work to safely fly below 5,000 feet.

You're overstating the problem so much that it's not funny. Aircraft, civilian and military, operate in "bad weather" on a daily basis worldwide. Not enough visibility? Fly off the dash. Too much turbulence? Don't have loose shit in the cabin. Crosswinds? Trim some yaw. Downdrafts? Keep your throttle at a high setting. Unexpected airflow? Leave yourself a safety margin. They're all non-issues and have been since 1960 at least.
Parhe on my Asian-ness.
Parhe wrote:Guess what, maybe you don't know what it is like to be Asian.

ayy lmao

User avatar
Triplebaconation
Minister
 
Posts: 3307
Founded: Feb 22, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Triplebaconation » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:44 am

Nobody flies through thunderstorms if they can help it - since they're usually localized this isn't really a problem. Rain isn't a big deal.
Proverbs 23:9.

Things are a bit larger than you appear to think, my friend.

User avatar
Velkanika
Minister
 
Posts: 2641
Founded: Sep 23, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Velkanika » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:51 am

Gallia- wrote:The difference between stupidity and bravery is often the outcome.

True, but that still doesn't make this any less of a dangerous scenario. If there is a situation where doing this would be worth the risk I'd be rather surprised. It's better to simply wait for acceptable weather over the target, which given how quickly the weather can change shouldn't take long.


Vitaphone Racing wrote:
Velkanika wrote:Moderate or greater intensity rain storms and any kind of lightening/hail storm or worse is the definition of bad weather that it's stupid to fly into. There's not enough visibility and too much turbulence, crosswinds, downdrafts, or other kinds of very unexpected airflow at work to safely fly below 5,000 feet.

You're overstating the problem so much that it's not funny. Aircraft, civilian and military, operate in "bad weather" on a daily basis worldwide. Not enough visibility? Fly off the dash. Too much turbulence? Don't have loose shit in the cabin. Crosswinds? Trim some yaw. Downdrafts? Keep your throttle at a high setting. Unexpected airflow? Leave yourself a safety margin. They're all non-issues and have been since 1960 at least.

How well could you manage trimming your aircraft while keeping an eye out for enemy aircraft, worrying about the SAM radars that are tripping your RWR every so often, and ridiculously rough ride while flying a bomb truck at low altitude with only 500 yards of visibility? Oh, and there's some hills and trees involved. I have enough simulator time to know this is a shitty situation to try and fly in, let alone fight in.

You want to know how aircraft operate in bad weather? THEY FLY OVER IT.
The necessity of a navy, in the restricted sense of the word, springs, therefore, from the existence of a peaceful shipping, and disappears with it, except in the case of a nation which has aggressive tendencies, and keeps up a navy merely as a branch of the military establishment. 1
1Alfred T. Mahan, The Influence of Sea Power Upon History, 1660-1783, 12th ed. (Boston: Little Brown and Company, 1890), 26.

Please avoid conflating my in-character role playing with what I actually believe, as these are usually quite different things.

User avatar
Vitaphone Racing
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10123
Founded: Aug 25, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Vitaphone Racing » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:57 am

Velkanika wrote:
Gallia- wrote:The difference between stupidity and bravery is often the outcome.

True, but that still doesn't make this any less of a dangerous scenario. If there is a situation where doing this would be worth the risk I'd be rather surprised. It's better to simply wait for acceptable weather over the target, which given how quickly the weather can change shouldn't take long.


Vitaphone Racing wrote:You're overstating the problem so much that it's not funny. Aircraft, civilian and military, operate in "bad weather" on a daily basis worldwide. Not enough visibility? Fly off the dash. Too much turbulence? Don't have loose shit in the cabin. Crosswinds? Trim some yaw. Downdrafts? Keep your throttle at a high setting. Unexpected airflow? Leave yourself a safety margin. They're all non-issues and have been since 1960 at least.

How well could you manage trimming your aircraft while keeping an eye out for enemy aircraft, worrying about the SAM radars that are tripping your RWR every so often, and ridiculously rough ride while flying a bomb truck at low altitude with only 500 yards of visibility?

Easily, I'd use the autotrim function.
Oh, and there's some hills and trees involved.

They'd be fucking huge trees if they're 500 feet high. I'd fully expect to have some terrain following radar which would alert me of hills though.
I have enough simulator time to know this is a shitty situation to try and fly in, let alone fight in
.
Huge difference between shitty and suicidal. It's like you think aircraft don't ever fly at night or something.

You want to know how aircraft operate in bad weather? THEY FLY OVER IT.

You've never been in an airliner taking off or landing in bad weather? Do you fly much?
Parhe on my Asian-ness.
Parhe wrote:Guess what, maybe you don't know what it is like to be Asian.

ayy lmao

User avatar
Velkanika
Minister
 
Posts: 2641
Founded: Sep 23, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Velkanika » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:03 am

Vitaphone Racing wrote:
Oh, and there's some hills and trees involved.

They'd be fucking huge trees if they're 500 feet high. I'd fully expect to have some terrain following radar which would alert me of hills though.

So you're looking at your radar instead of threats outside now.
Huge difference between shitty and suicidal. It's like you think aircraft don't ever fly at night or something.

There's a huge difference between IFR and a bloody storm.
You've never been in an airliner taking off or landing in bad weather? Do you fly much?

I've flow before. They wait for conditions to lighten up enough so they won't die, hence all those storm delays that have a tendency to disrupt departure and arrival schedules an entire ocean away.
The necessity of a navy, in the restricted sense of the word, springs, therefore, from the existence of a peaceful shipping, and disappears with it, except in the case of a nation which has aggressive tendencies, and keeps up a navy merely as a branch of the military establishment. 1
1Alfred T. Mahan, The Influence of Sea Power Upon History, 1660-1783, 12th ed. (Boston: Little Brown and Company, 1890), 26.

Please avoid conflating my in-character role playing with what I actually believe, as these are usually quite different things.

User avatar
Triplebaconation
Minister
 
Posts: 3307
Founded: Feb 22, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Triplebaconation » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:07 am

Yes. Thunderstorms routinely disrupt global travel.
Proverbs 23:9.

Things are a bit larger than you appear to think, my friend.

User avatar
Vitaphone Racing
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10123
Founded: Aug 25, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Vitaphone Racing » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:31 am

Velkanika wrote:
Vitaphone Racing wrote:
They'd be fucking huge trees if they're 500 feet high. I'd fully expect to have some terrain following radar which would alert me of hills though.

So you're looking at your radar instead of threats outside now.

Usually there'd be a second pilot for that or the process would be so automated that it's simple. I'm assuming any "experience" you've had has been in a very simple simulator or in a very low-end light aircraft, seeing how many misconceptions you have about technology. You could always read more.
Huge difference between shitty and suicidal. It's like you think aircraft don't ever fly at night or something.

There's a huge difference between IFR and a bloody storm.

And yet neither are what you'd call extremely dangerous or suicidal to anything beyond an inexperienced pilot.
You've never been in an airliner taking off or landing in bad weather? Do you fly much?

I've flow before. They wait for conditions to lighten up enough so they won't die, hence all those storm delays that have a tendency to disrupt departure and arrival schedules an entire ocean away.

They wait for conditions to lighten up when they have the opportunity to do so. If you have to fly through a storm, you have to fly through a storm. Even still, the chances of a crash from flying through a storm are minimal and every crash from some weather related cause since the late 1980's has had some secondary factor as well, like a pilot who had no idea of what to do. I don't know why you keep making it seem like a 50/50 between life and death. Nobody has said it's perfectly safe or that doing this is easy, so if you're not arguing that it's impossibly dangerous then I don't know what you're arguing.
Last edited by Vitaphone Racing on Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Parhe on my Asian-ness.
Parhe wrote:Guess what, maybe you don't know what it is like to be Asian.

ayy lmao

User avatar
Questers
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13867
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Questers » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:42 am

I have flown through quite a lot of storms. It's not really a big thing.
Restore the Crown

User avatar
Questers
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13867
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Questers » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:43 am

Oaledonia wrote:How would a government military react to a Swedish Rhapsody numbers station? Would it ignore it and dismiss it as nothing? I was thinking of using these to spoof anti-spy operations.
As far as I know, because numbers stations use one time pads, intelligence services don't try to decrypt the actual message. What they can see however is when the message changes and at what time/how frequently, it might give a loose indication.
Restore the Crown

User avatar
Gallia-
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21283
Founded: Oct 09, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Gallia- » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:44 am

Questers wrote:I have flown through quite a lot of storms. It's not really a big thing.


Yeah you say that.

Then you find out you're living on Lost: The Planet.

Sixth Sense was probably directed by a Questerian.

User avatar
Firmador
Minister
 
Posts: 2691
Founded: Dec 11, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Firmador » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:45 am

How would bad weather (I guess heavy rains, maybe up to typhoon level?) affect ground or air based radar and IR detection ranges?

Also, what do you guys think of this ns tank: http://iiwiki.com/wiki/T-11_Victory
Last edited by Firmador on Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Firmador
Minister
 
Posts: 2691
Founded: Dec 11, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Firmador » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:47 am

I meant IR as well, if anyone would be so kind**

User avatar
Questers
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13867
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Questers » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:49 am

Zeinbrad wrote:Also I may note, since the Ragon Air Force is....bad. The Ragon depend on their three pilot families to have kids, and teach them how to fly a plan first thing.
Do you actually think that this is a thing anyone would do or is it obvious to you how contrived this is?

Deus ex machina is a thing.This is like the opposite of it.
Restore the Crown

User avatar
Registug
Senator
 
Posts: 4792
Founded: Feb 25, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Registug » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:59 am

It's usually referred to as Diabolus Ex Machina
Call me Garshne

Astrayan

User avatar
Pharthan
Minister
 
Posts: 2969
Founded: Feb 18, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Pharthan » Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:18 am

Vitaphone Racing wrote:
Velkanika wrote:-snip-
-snip-

*Sits back and eats popcorn.*

Oh, yeah, this is good stuff.

I keep thinking, "But, you can just.. oh, Vitaphone's got it. Oh, wow, that's interesting. I never knew about that."
HALCYON ARMS STOREFRONT

"Humanity is a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan
"Besides, if God didn't want us making glowing fish and insect-resistant corn, the building blocks of life wouldn't be so easy for science to fiddle with." - Dracoria

Why haven't I had anything new in my storefront for so long? This is why. I've been busy.

User avatar
Imperializt Russia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54843
Founded: Jun 03, 2011
Corporate Police State

Postby Imperializt Russia » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:01 am

Gallia- wrote:(Image)

My favourite.

Kouralia wrote:Okay... So that's an Unknown, Air/Space Forces... I got nothing.

Someone made the NATO symbol for an alien space ship?


It's Unknown - Space Station

Looks a little like the Cypher drone.

What is the "ladybugs" symbol used for?
A similar-looking symbol in an APP-6A list I found describes it as "Vandalism/Rape/Loot/Ransack/Plunder/Sack".
"Neutral vagabond"?
Kouralia wrote:
Gallia- wrote:(Image)

My favourite.



It's Unknown - Space Station

Oh, cool. Is there a website which has the full collection of symbols on it, as Wiki is lacking in some regards.

I found this.
http://www.vs.rs/content/attachments/AP ... ymbols.pdf
Warning! This poster has:
PT puppet of the People's Republic of Samozaryadnyastan.

Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Also,
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

User avatar
Kampala-
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 463
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Kampala- » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:02 am

It's looting by an unknown party.
Hello humans. I am Sporekin, specifically a European Umber-Brown Puffball (or more formally, Lycoperdon umbrinum). Ask me anything.

User avatar
Purpelia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31815
Founded: Oct 19, 2010
Libertarian Police State

Postby Purpelia » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:05 am

Am I missing something here or does that PDF have absolutely nothing to do with the words you are using, only the symbol shown?
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

User avatar
Firmador
Minister
 
Posts: 2691
Founded: Dec 11, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Firmador » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:07 am

How would bad weather (I guess heavy rains, maybe up to typhoon level?) affect ground or air based radar and IR detection ranges?

Also, what do you guys think of this ns tank: http://iiwiki.com/wiki/T-11_Victory

?

User avatar
Imperializt Russia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54843
Founded: Jun 03, 2011
Corporate Police State

Postby Imperializt Russia » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:09 am

Purpelia wrote:Am I missing something here or does that PDF have absolutely nothing to do with the words you are using, only the symbol shown?

Not sure I get what you mean.
Warning! This poster has:
PT puppet of the People's Republic of Samozaryadnyastan.

Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Also,
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to Factbooks and National Information

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Romae in Perpetuum, Triplebaconation

Advertisement

Remove ads