NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #5

[Zeinbrad]

...I assume going Scorched Earth and concentration camps will lead to lots of riots,protest and rebels.

Why?

Just be competent about the concentration camps, and rename them if your people are all idiots.

What? Happy Go Funland. For ages 14 and up?

[Purpelia]

Why?

Just be competent about the concentration camps, and rename them if your people are all idiots.

What? Happy Go Funland. For ages 14 and up?

Internment camp sounds about right.

Plus really, what's the point of concentrating your prisoners so that they can break out more easily. Just take them out back and put a bullet through their skull when no one is looking. Make a few model camps with model prisoners and stuff for propaganda purposes and just gas the rest.

[Crookfur]

Why?

Just be competent about the concentration camps, and rename them if your people are all idiots.

What? Happy Go Funland. For ages 14 and up?

The thing is if the Empire knwos what it is doing and has the logisitics to mount a full mechanised campaign there is good chance that they won't experience the f*ckups and lack of supplies that lead to the horror of the actual Boer war camps.

Purp: "Refugee camps" are just for the women and children you have cleared from the land(planet), any captured males/combatants get shipped over seas (off world).



edit:

On reflecting the there is a important question to be asked of Zeinbrad here: Who needs to win?

if the story demands that the rebels/boer alieks suceed then make it so! Have the cnetral government be hopelessly conflicted about the whole affiar and add in some politcal appointments of comamnders and lots of direct and indirect meddling and no matter how good the troops things like there not being enough of them, not enough supplies, insane ROEs and conflciting mission parameters could easily make the whole campaign a debacle.

Simialrly if the you want the empire/cnetral goverbnment to win a full on no holds barred campaign surpassing boer war levels of intensity coudl be sustained. Couple that with an "industrial" application of special forces (have a good read of Task Force Black by Mark Urban for that side of things) with spacey mobility and you could easily come to a very convincing victory for the empire.

of coruse soemthign inbetween is fully possible you just need to write it. i suspect alot will be down to politics and that might help as you wouldn;t need to bother with any real detail of the fighting.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

What are the advantages of tandem rotor (e.g. Chinook) over single-rotor for helis?


Also, I seem to have an obsession for fuck-huge. Has a consensus been reached as to the viability of a Yak-60? And which would be better between it and the Mil V-12?

EDIT: Also, should I use not-RAH-66s y/y? See the thing is my main attack helicopter would be the (equivalent of) the Apache, so pretty expensive.

[Rich and Corporations]

(Image)

I forgot about this guy. The rarely seen Army motor vehicle traffic director.

i prefer generals

[Oaledonia]

What are the advantages of tandem rotor (e.g. Chinook) over single-rotor for helis?


Also, I seem to have an obsession for fuck-huge. Has a consensus been reached as to the viability of a Yak-60? And which would be better between it and the Mil V-12?

EDIT: Also, should I use not-RAH-66s y/y? See the thing is my main attack helicopter would be the (equivalent of) the Apache, so pretty expensive.

Don't expect it to be anything like you've read in Tom Clancy

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

What are the advantages of tandem rotor (e.g. Chinook) over single-rotor for helis?


Also, I seem to have an obsession for fuck-huge. Has a consensus been reached as to the viability of a Yak-60? And which would be better between it and the Mil V-12?

EDIT: Also, should I use not-RAH-66s y/y? See the thing is my main attack helicopter would be the (equivalent of) the Apache, so pretty expensive.

Don't expect it to be anything like you've read in Tom Clancy

I haven't are they any good?

I've only played a game Tom Clancy something but it was a stealthy shooter IIRC no copters.

Anyways, does anyone IRL or here on NS have a viable alternative? I'd rather it was something purpose built (and with tandem seating) not some Kiowa Warrior or some such.

[Radictistan]

I don't like the idea of stealth anything operating as far forward as attack helicopters due, and there's little point in radar stealth when you're flying nape-of-the-earth at relatively low speeds.

[The Kievan People]

I don't like the idea of stealth anything operating as far forward as attack helicopters due, and there's little point in radar stealth when you're flying nape-of-the-earth at relatively low speeds.

Is look-down-shoot-down radar not a thing?

[Velkanika]

So I have this bad boy (thanks to triplebackonnation for making it) the Type-57 Fighter Jet

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=19851087#p19851087

Here's the jet design, it looks small to me,does that hold any advantages? It is also armed with two 30mm autocannon,and has six or so hard points for missiles and all that good stuff.

This is the mainstay of the Ragon airforce, used by the non-elite squadrons.

The reason for two 30mm is because dogfighting is still a thing in this universe.

You only need one 30mm cannon. Two is just extra weight.

Only 6 missiles? That's borderline for a viable Air-to-Air missile load, you'd be better off with 8.

That cockpit has terrible visibility below the nose. Landing will be a very dangerous thing.

The engines look like they're only 10 feet long. Those are very small compared to other engines, and will probably give you crappy performance as such.

The wings are very small compared to the rest of the aircraft and don't generate much lift. This thing won't be able to turn for a damn even if those are massive chimes on the nose.

Small size isn't a bad thing in a fighter, but this aircraft isn't just small. The entire airframe shape is terrible for a fighter aircraft. Those petite little wings mean you're going to have a very high landing speed with a cockpit the pilot can't see the runway out of. They also mean your payload is going to be tiny, assuming you can even get it into the air with those under powered engines. This thing can't bring a fighting payload to the fight, can't turn, can't climb, can't run away, and can't hide from the enemy. It's a Widowmaker in the worst sense of the word for your pilots.

[Inyourfaceistan]

I don't like the idea of stealth anything operating as far forward as attack helicopters due, and there's little point in radar stealth when you're flying nape-of-the-earth at relatively low speeds.

Attack helicopters I can see your point, but HvT assassinations and rescue missions deep in enemy territory I would guess stealth helicopters could serve as a very useful improvement.

[Radictistan]

I don't like the idea of stealth anything operating as far forward as attack helicopters due, and there's little point in radar stealth when you're flying nape-of-the-earth at relatively low speeds.

Attack helicopters I can see your point, but HvT assassinations and rescue missions deep in enemy territory I would guess stealth helicopters could serve as a very useful improvement.

Perhaps, although to do anything "deep" in enemy territory your helos will need unstealthy tankers.

[Oaledonia]

You only need one 30mm cannon. Two is just extra weight.

You can also use some of the saved space for more ammo.

[Zeinbrad]

You only need one 30mm cannon. Two is just extra weight.

You can also use some of the saved space for more ammo.

Okay.

Also I may note, since the Ragon Air Force is....bad. The Ragon depend on their three pilot families to have kids, and teach them how to fly a plan first thing.

That, and they also have one of the best SPAAGs in the Galaxy. The Type-21 during Gaian-Ragon War time.

[Oaledonia]

You can also use some of the saved space for more ammo.

Okay.

Also I may note, since the Ragon Air Force is....bad. The Ragon depend on their three pilot families to have kids, and teach them how to fly a plan first thing.

That, and they also have one of the best SPAAGs in the Galaxy. The Type-21 during Gaian-Ragon War time.

Ragon doesn't even remotely sound like anything Asian.

[Zeinbrad]

Okay.

Also I may note, since the Ragon Air Force is....bad. The Ragon depend on their three pilot families to have kids, and teach them how to fly a plan first thing.

That, and they also have one of the best SPAAGs in the Galaxy. The Type-21 during Gaian-Ragon War time.

Ragon doesn't even remotely sound like anything Asian.

And?

They are descendants of Asiatic space colonization, which, apparently describes why they have red skin.

They get American Anti-Japanese propaganda thrown at them too, there's even a "One Dead Jap", One Dead Rag.

They don't even know their descendants of Asiatic space colonization until after the Gaian-Ragon War.

[Inyourfaceistan]

SSM/ASM-4 "Leviathan"

Weight: 3,500lb (1,600kg)
Length: 19.5ft (5.9m)
Wingspan: 8ft (2.4m)
Warhead:: 1,500lb (680.3kg) RDX Shape Charge
Range: 450km (243nmi)
Speed: 1458mph (Mach 1.9)
Guidance: GPS/INS with terminal active radar seeker

Special Features:
- Sea-skimming
- Fits in Mk-41 VLS strike-length capsule
- Psuedo-random maneuvering in terminal attack phase

Plausible? Flaws? Yes/No?

[The Kievan People]

Warhead is awfully heavy.

Halve it maybe.

[Velkanika]

A 1,000 lbs warhead will cripple all but the largest ships, and those you can sink with a dozen additional 1,000 pounders.

[Zeinbrad]

Going though the standard combat equipment of the Boers during the Rebellion. Note, this is what the equipment compares too, not what it actually is.

Rifles
FN FAL
M16A1(Given by defectors from the Volunteers)
M14 (Given by defectors from the Volunteers)
AR-18
M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle (Also Squad Support weapon)
FN Model 1949

Machine Guns
FN MAG
Heckler & Koch HK21
M60 machine gun (Given by defectors from the Volunteers)
Lewis gun
RPK
Bren Gun.

AT Weapons
RPG-7
M72 LAW
RPG-29

Artillery
M2 Mortar
M116 howitzer
Type 98 20 mm AA Machine Cannon
57 mm AZP S-60
ZiS-2
BS-3

Was trying to go with light and easy to move for the artillery by the way. Well, maybe the Bis-3 isn't so light, but the Boers need something heavy hitting.

[Mozria]

Would it be possible to have a dual-purpose ATGM platform that can fire both ATGWs and SAMs? It wouldn't be using a radar or anything of the sort, as the SAMs would be infra-red seeking.

[Purpelia]

Would it be possible to have a dual-purpose ATGM platform that can fire both ATGWs and SAMs? It wouldn't be using a radar or anything of the sort, as the SAMs would be infra-red seeking.

Does this fit your requirements?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Defens ... ank_System

[Inyourfaceistan]

SSM/ASM-4 "Leviathan"

Weight: 3,500lb (1,600kg)
Length: 19.5ft (5.9m)
Wingspan: 8ft (2.4m)
Warhead:: 1,000lb (453.5kg) Blast Fragmentation Penetrator
Range: 450km (243nmi)
Speed: 1458mph (Mach 1.9)
Guidance: GPS/INS with terminal active radar seeker

Special Features:
- Sea-skimming
- Fits in Mk-41 VLS strike-length capsule
- Psuedo-random maneuvering in terminal attack phase

Better?

I originally wanted to go full Kh-22 with 2025lb RDX shape charge, but I figured that wouldn't fit in an Mk-41 so I cut about a quarter off.

Now I chopped it down to 1000lb and made it closer to JASSM/LRASM-A warhead.

[Firmador]

Going though the standard combat equipment of the Boers during the Rebellion. Note, this is what the equipment compares too, not what it actually is.

Rifles
FN FAL
M16A1(Given by defectors from the Volunteers)
M14 (Given by defectors from the Volunteers)
AR-18
M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle (Also Squad Support weapon)
FN Model 1949

Machine Guns
FN MAG
Heckler & Koch HK21
M60 machine gun (Given by defectors from the Volunteers)
Lewis gun
RPK
Bren Gun.

AT Weapons
RPG-7
M72 LAW
RPG-29

Artillery
M2 Mortar
M116 howitzer
Type 98 20 mm AA Machine Cannon
57 mm AZP S-60
ZiS-2
BS-3

Was trying to go with light and easy to move for the artillery by the way. Well, maybe the Bis-3 isn't so light, but the Boers need something heavy hitting.

Well, I think you should give the FN FAL to the volunteers, and HK417s to your regular units, maybe an M60 over a BAR? They're all chambered in the same round.

[Oaledonia]

Would it be possible to have a dual-purpose ATGM platform that can fire both ATGWs and SAMs? It wouldn't be using a radar or anything of the sort, as the SAMs would be infra-red seeking.

Does this fit your requirements?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Defens ... ank_System

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-Mission_Effects_Vehicle