Your Nation's Main Battle Tank (No Mechs) [Part 1]

[Jerusalem Kingdom]

The Holy Crusader Kingdom uses two Main Battle Tanks:

The M12 Chariot...



And the M50 Crusader.

[Hegstoria]

Main Battle Tanks are really obsolete. Seriously guys. Even a heavy MBT can be taken out by an airstrike, and an IFV can pack similar punch while being faster and lighter; and carrying more troops.

K, thanks for the argument for the entire thread. This was the first argument, then it was that Mechs were tanks (THEY ARE NOT!!!) Now we're back to this.

MBTs can also be armed with Anti-Air capabilities..did you know that? I'm guessing you do since you know everything. Aside from that, MBTs don't act alone, they have SAM teams and vehicles and troops, IFVs, and their own aircraft to make sure that the exact situation you are saying doesn't happen.

He thinks that what goes on in Video games is true. He thinks that a tank goes in alone, and that the special ops team fighting it just has to call in an airstrike to kill it. People like that really don't warrant the attention of us.

[Lizardiar]

Main Battle Tanks are really obsolete. Seriously guys. Even a heavy MBT can be taken out by an airstrike, and an IFV can pack similar punch while being faster and lighter; and carrying more troops.

K, thanks for the argument for the entire thread. This was the first argument, then it was that Mechs were tanks (THEY ARE NOT!!!) Now we're back to this.

MBTs can also be armed with Anti-Air capabilities..did you know that? I'm guessing you do since you know everything. Aside from that, MBTs don't act alone, they have SAM teams and vehicles and troops, IFVs, and their own aircraft to make sure that the exact situation you are saying doesn't happen.

He thinks that what goes on in Video games is true. He thinks that a tank goes in alone, and that the special ops team fighting it just has to call in an airstrike to kill it. People like that really don't warrant the attention of us.

No, I'm making sure he knows why we dispute his argument, I'll not have another 5-6 pages like with the Mech = Tank? one..

[Hegstoria]

Main Battle Tanks are really obsolete. Seriously guys. Even a heavy MBT can be taken out by an airstrike, and an IFV can pack similar punch while being faster and lighter; and carrying more troops.

K, thanks for the argument for the entire thread. This was the first argument, then it was that Mechs were tanks (THEY ARE NOT!!!) Now we're back to this.

MBTs can also be armed with Anti-Air capabilities..did you know that? I'm guessing you do since you know everything. Aside from that, MBTs don't act alone, they have SAM teams and vehicles and troops, IFVs, and their own aircraft to make sure that the exact situation you are saying doesn't happen.

He thinks that what goes on in Video games is true. He thinks that a tank goes in alone, and that the special ops team fighting it just has to call in an airstrike to kill it. People like that really don't warrant the attention of us.

No, I'm making sure he knows why we dispute his argument, I'll not have another 5-6 pages like with the Mech = Tank? one..

Well yes that too.

[Bafuria]

Main Battle Tanks are really obsolete. Seriously guys. Even a heavy MBT can be taken out by an airstrike, and an IFV can pack similar punch while being faster and lighter; and carrying more troops.

K, thanks for the argument for the entire thread. This was the first argument, then it was that Mechs were tanks (THEY ARE NOT!!!) Now we're back to this.

MBTs can also be armed with Anti-Air capabilities..did you know that? I'm guessing you do since you know everything. Aside from that, MBTs don't act alone, they have SAM teams and vehicles and troops, IFVs, and their own aircraft to make sure that the exact situation you are saying doesn't happen.

IFVs can be given SAMs to, and they aren't exactly helpless against heavier armour.

But they are helpless against DU shells.

[Coccygia]

A tank of piranhas!

[The Corparation]

Mammoth Tank

[Lizardiar]

Main Battle Tanks are really obsolete. Seriously guys. Even a heavy MBT can be taken out by an airstrike, and an IFV can pack similar punch while being faster and lighter; and carrying more troops.

K, thanks for the argument for the entire thread. This was the first argument, then it was that Mechs were tanks (THEY ARE NOT!!!) Now we're back to this.

MBTs can also be armed with Anti-Air capabilities..did you know that? I'm guessing you do since you know everything. Aside from that, MBTs don't act alone, they have SAM teams and vehicles and troops, IFVs, and their own aircraft to make sure that the exact situation you are saying doesn't happen.

IFVs can be given SAMs to, and they aren't exactly helpless against heavier armour.

Right...because of their superior guns...wait a second.....well...their (Half the range of the main cannon of a tanks) TOW missiles?

[The Grand World Order]

But they are helpless against 105mm DU shells.

Most things are.

An Abrams shrugged off three or so DU-tipped sabots into the side at near point-blank (as far as tank warfare goes) in Iraq, from another Abrams (the former tank was stuck, and they had to destroy it to keep it from falling into Iraqi hands.)

[Hegstoria]

But they are helpless against 105mm DU shells.

Most things are.

An Abrams shrugged off three or so DU-tipped sabots into the side at near point-blank (as far as tank warfare goes) in Iraq, from another Abrams (the former tank was stuck, and they had to destroy it to keep it from falling into Iraqi hands.)

God I love my countries military... Say what you want about us, but Jesus Christ we'll fuck you up with the awesomest tech around. It brings a tear to my eye. :')

[Hegstoria]

Main Battle Tanks are really obsolete. Seriously guys. Even a heavy MBT can be taken out by an airstrike, and an IFV can pack similar punch while being faster and lighter; and carrying more troops.

K, thanks for the argument for the entire thread. This was the first argument, then it was that Mechs were tanks (THEY ARE NOT!!!) Now we're back to this.

MBTs can also be armed with Anti-Air capabilities..did you know that? I'm guessing you do since you know everything. Aside from that, MBTs don't act alone, they have SAM teams and vehicles and troops, IFVs, and their own aircraft to make sure that the exact situation you are saying doesn't happen.

IFVs can be given SAMs to, and they aren't exactly helpless against heavier armour.

Right...because of their superior guns...wait a second.....well...their (Half the range of the main cannon of a tanks) TOW missiles?

I believe he's reffering to the stryker series, and the BMP series had 105mm cannons and other kool shit

Again I say it, I love my country so freaking much. Who the hell needs peace and this "negotiating" we keep hearing about, let's just blow them up.

[Satirius]

wat Canadai

Tanks=/=defense platforms. Tanks, in fact, would form the core of a land-based breakthrough force.

[Hegstoria]

But they are helpless against 105mm DU shells.

Most things are.

An Abrams shrugged off three or so DU-tipped sabots into the side at near point-blank (as far as tank warfare goes) in Iraq, from another Abrams (the former tank was stuck, and they had to destroy it to keep it from falling into Iraqi hands.)

I said most things are. Tanks are obsolete, but still useful for some things such as being a mobile bunker.

Now here's the problem, 120mm cannons kill most everything on the ground. MBTs can survive 120mm cannons.

MBTs are what now?

Again I say it, Canadai is simply using his knowledge from CoD and all those games, which definitely is pathetic.

[The Corparation]

Main Battle Tanks are really obsolete. Seriously guys. Even a heavy MBT can be taken out by an airstrike, and an IFV can pack similar punch while being faster and lighter; and carrying more troops.

K, thanks for the argument for the entire thread. This was the first argument, then it was that Mechs were tanks (THEY ARE NOT!!!) Now we're back to this.

MBTs can also be armed with Anti-Air capabilities..did you know that? I'm guessing you do since you know everything. Aside from that, MBTs don't act alone, they have SAM teams and vehicles and troops, IFVs, and their own aircraft to make sure that the exact situation you are saying doesn't happen.

IFVs can be given SAMs to, and they aren't exactly helpless against heavier armour.

Right...because of their superior guns...wait a second.....well...their (Half the range of the main cannon of a tanks) TOW missiles?

I believe he's reffering to the stryker series, and the BMP series had 105mm cannons and other kool shit

If your talking about the Stryker, the Stryker is basicaly a rip off of the Canadian LAV III which is itself a rip off of the Swiss Piranha III, so its the Piranha series of vehicles not the Stryker series.

[Hegstoria]

Main Battle Tanks are really obsolete. Seriously guys. Even a heavy MBT can be taken out by an airstrike, and an IFV can pack similar punch while being faster and lighter; and carrying more troops.

K, thanks for the argument for the entire thread. This was the first argument, then it was that Mechs were tanks (THEY ARE NOT!!!) Now we're back to this.

MBTs can also be armed with Anti-Air capabilities..did you know that? I'm guessing you do since you know everything. Aside from that, MBTs don't act alone, they have SAM teams and vehicles and troops, IFVs, and their own aircraft to make sure that the exact situation you are saying doesn't happen.

IFVs can be given SAMs to, and they aren't exactly helpless against heavier armour.

Right...because of their superior guns...wait a second.....well...their (Half the range of the main cannon of a tanks) TOW missiles?

I believe he's reffering to the stryker series, and the BMP series had 105mm cannons and other kool shit

Again I say it, I love my country so freaking much. Who the hell needs peace and this "negotiating" we keep hearing about, let's just blow them up.

I don't really like the American military, it's just, soulless. All about winning, superior technology, and lolol you can't hurt us at all WHABAM NIGGA.

Of course, I'm just butthurt cause I'm not American.

Your just jealous of our epic KD and killstreaks. We've gone prestige like 100 times since 1945, we just do it so freaking fast. *Chants* USA USA USA!!!!

[Hegstoria]

Main Battle Tanks are really obsolete. Seriously guys. Even a heavy MBT can be taken out by an airstrike, and an IFV can pack similar punch while being faster and lighter; and carrying more troops.

K, thanks for the argument for the entire thread. This was the first argument, then it was that Mechs were tanks (THEY ARE NOT!!!) Now we're back to this.

MBTs can also be armed with Anti-Air capabilities..did you know that? I'm guessing you do since you know everything. Aside from that, MBTs don't act alone, they have SAM teams and vehicles and troops, IFVs, and their own aircraft to make sure that the exact situation you are saying doesn't happen.

IFVs can be given SAMs to, and they aren't exactly helpless against heavier armour.

Right...because of their superior guns...wait a second.....well...their (Half the range of the main cannon of a tanks) TOW missiles?

I believe he's reffering to the stryker series, and the BMP series had 105mm cannons and other kool shit

If your talking about the Stryker, the Stryker is basicaly a rip off of the Canadian LAV III which is itself a rip off of the Swiss Piranha III, so its the Piranha series of vehicles not the Stryker series.

Yes, yes, we stole it from the Canadians who stole it from the Swiss. But who cares because neither of them actually have a real army, the Canadians just have mounted Beavers and the Swiss have an army of cheese and chocolate. So obviously we deserve the credit for it.

[Satirius]

Anyways, I plan on doing another missile tank ala T900 soon. I have the draft on Word, planning to post on NSD soon also.


Also Stryker is apparently has lighter armor than the MOWAG or LAV

[The Corparation]

Main Battle Tanks are really obsolete. Seriously guys. Even a heavy MBT can be taken out by an airstrike, and an IFV can pack similar punch while being faster and lighter; and carrying more troops.

K, thanks for the argument for the entire thread. This was the first argument, then it was that Mechs were tanks (THEY ARE NOT!!!) Now we're back to this.

MBTs can also be armed with Anti-Air capabilities..did you know that? I'm guessing you do since you know everything. Aside from that, MBTs don't act alone, they have SAM teams and vehicles and troops, IFVs, and their own aircraft to make sure that the exact situation you are saying doesn't happen.

IFVs can be given SAMs to, and they aren't exactly helpless against heavier armour.

Right...because of their superior guns...wait a second.....well...their (Half the range of the main cannon of a tanks) TOW missiles?

I believe he's reffering to the stryker series, and the BMP series had 105mm cannons and other kool shit

If your talking about the Stryker, the Stryker is basicaly a rip off of the Canadian LAV III which is itself a rip off of the Swiss Piranha III, so its the Piranha series of vehicles not the Stryker series.

Yes, yes, we stole it from the Canadians who stole it from the Swiss. But who cares because neither of them actually have a real army, the Canadians just have mounted Beavers and the Swiss have an army of cheese and chocolate. So obviously we deserve the credit for it.

Switzerland has an extremly well trained and equiped military, they just never use it.

But they are helpless against 105mm DU shells.

Most things are.

An Abrams shrugged off three or so DU-tipped sabots into the side at near point-blank (as far as tank warfare goes) in Iraq, from another Abrams (the former tank was stuck, and they had to destroy it to keep it from falling into Iraqi hands.)

God I love my countries military... Say what you want about us, but Jesus Christ we'll fuck you up with the awesomest tech around. It brings a tear to my eye. :')

The British Challenger 2 is better, only one has ever been destroyed (By another Challenger), one of them survived after taking 70 rpg hits, another withstood 8 rpg hits and a direct hit with a MILAN antitank missile, with the crew safe inside for several hours taking continuos small arms fire prior to recovery, and was repaired within 6 hours of being recovered.

[Hegstoria]

Main Battle Tanks are really obsolete. Seriously guys. Even a heavy MBT can be taken out by an airstrike, and an IFV can pack similar punch while being faster and lighter; and carrying more troops.

K, thanks for the argument for the entire thread. This was the first argument, then it was that Mechs were tanks (THEY ARE NOT!!!) Now we're back to this.

MBTs can also be armed with Anti-Air capabilities..did you know that? I'm guessing you do since you know everything. Aside from that, MBTs don't act alone, they have SAM teams and vehicles and troops, IFVs, and their own aircraft to make sure that the exact situation you are saying doesn't happen.

IFVs can be given SAMs to, and they aren't exactly helpless against heavier armour.

Right...because of their superior guns...wait a second.....well...their (Half the range of the main cannon of a tanks) TOW missiles?

I believe he's reffering to the stryker series, and the BMP series had 105mm cannons and other kool shit

If your talking about the Stryker, the Stryker is basicaly a rip off of the Canadian LAV III which is itself a rip off of the Swiss Piranha III, so its the Piranha series of vehicles not the Stryker series.

Yes, yes, we stole it from the Canadians who stole it from the Swiss. But who cares because neither of them actually have a real army, the Canadians just have mounted Beavers and the Swiss have an army of cheese and chocolate. So obviously we deserve the credit for it.

Switzerland has an extremly well trained and equiped military, they just never use it.

But they are helpless against 105mm DU shells.

Most things are.

An Abrams shrugged off three or so DU-tipped sabots into the side at near point-blank (as far as tank warfare goes) in Iraq, from another Abrams (the former tank was stuck, and they had to destroy it to keep it from falling into Iraqi hands.)

God I love my countries military... Say what you want about us, but Jesus Christ we'll fuck you up with the awesomest tech around. It brings a tear to my eye. :')

The British Challenger 2 is better, only one has ever been destroyed (By another Challenger), one of them survived after taking 70 rpg hits, another withstood 8 rpg hits and a direct hit with a MILAN antitank missile, with the crew safe inside for several hours taking continuos small arms fire prior to recovery, and was repaired within 6 hours of being recovered.

LIES I SAY, LIES!!! The Swiss do not have an army, you made it up in your brain!!!!!!

Obviously you my friend have not played the Warpig mission in CoD Modern Warfare. That tank took like a gabbilion RPG hits.

In all honesty though I hope you realize all of those were for lulz, I do know all of that, but I also know that the U.S. is continually upgrading it's military and all of our main systems are over 10 years old and will be getting either replaced or overhauled very soon. I would put money down right now that GD and the DoD are in development of new upgrades for the Abrams.

EDIT: I said aren't instead of are.

[Lizardiar]

But they are helpless against 105mm DU shells.

Most things are.

An Abrams shrugged off three or so DU-tipped sabots into the side at near point-blank (as far as tank warfare goes) in Iraq, from another Abrams (the former tank was stuck, and they had to destroy it to keep it from falling into Iraqi hands.)

I said most things are. Tanks are obsolete, but still useful for some things such as being a mobile bunker.

Now here's the problem, 120mm cannons kill most everything on the ground. MBTs can survive 120mm cannons.

MBTs are what now?

Again I say it, Canadai is simply using his knowledge from CoD and all those games, which definitely is pathetic.

No, not really.

Let's have a sample skirmish here:
BMP-3
Mi-28
Vs.
Abrams x2

The Mi-28 unloads it's rockets onto the Abrams before they even come near the BMP. Assuming one of them survived and shot down the helicopter, the BMP has a fair shot at it with it's ATGMs.

K, let me show you where you went wrong....US Tactics (Or any other country's around the world) would never allow for a tank to go off on it's own for a little while. Abrams happen to be expensive and they don't want to possibly lose it in the situation you're suggesting.
These 2 Abrams would likely also have at least 2 squads of infantry with some form of anti-armor missiles. These squads would have the capability to call air support, so there goes your Mi-28. So then, your little BMP explodes in a giant fireball of metal and gas.

[Hegstoria]

But they are helpless against 105mm DU shells.

Most things are.

An Abrams shrugged off three or so DU-tipped sabots into the side at near point-blank (as far as tank warfare goes) in Iraq, from another Abrams (the former tank was stuck, and they had to destroy it to keep it from falling into Iraqi hands.)

I said most things are. Tanks are obsolete, but still useful for some things such as being a mobile bunker.

Now here's the problem, 120mm cannons kill most everything on the ground. MBTs can survive 120mm cannons.

MBTs are what now?

Again I say it, Canadai is simply using his knowledge from CoD and all those games, which definitely is pathetic.

No, not really.

Let's have a sample skirmish here:
BMP-3
Mi-28
Vs.
Abrams x2

The Mi-28 unloads it's rockets onto the Abrams before they even come near the BMP. Assuming one of them survived and shot down the helicopter, the BMP has a fair shot at it with it's ATGMs.

But as we have said earlier the Abrams will never be on its own like this. Armored cores come outfitted with SAMS, their own military helicopters, and ground infantry. So the simple fact is that we will never see an instance like this, the modern war is more like a choreographed ballet than a battle as seen at El-Alamein.

[Dostanuot Loj]

But they are helpless against 105mm DU shells.

Most things are.

An Abrams shrugged off three or so DU-tipped sabots into the side at near point-blank (as far as tank warfare goes) in Iraq, from another Abrams (the former tank was stuck, and they had to destroy it to keep it from falling into Iraqi hands.)

I said most things are. Tanks are obsolete, but still useful for some things such as being a mobile bunker.

Now here's the problem, 120mm cannons kill most everything on the ground. MBTs can survive 120mm cannons.

MBTs are what now?

Again I say it, Canadai is simply using his knowledge from CoD and all those games, which definitely is pathetic.

No, not really.

Let's have a sample skirmish here:
BMP-3
Mi-28
Vs.
Abrams x2

The Mi-28 unloads it's rockets onto the Abrams before they even come near the BMP. Assuming one of them survived and shot down the helicopter, the BMP has a fair shot at it with it's ATGMs.

Result of battle
1 x Mi-28 = 16 million USD

2 x Abrams = 12 million USD

Phyrric Victory for side A

Why did I have to use the most expensive heli I could find as an example...

The Havoc is pretty cheap.

It's going to be that math no matter what. Helos are espensive and they are easily mauled by ground forces including tanks. Anyone else care to remember that unit of AH-64s that was absolutely ruined by an Iraqi unit with obsolete equipment and minimal air defense? That's telling.

Reality is, combined arms beats all. Hands down. The presumption that the tank is obsolete is a complete lack of understanding of combined arms.

I would put money down right now that GD and the DoD aren't in development of new upgrades for the Abrams.

How much money are you putting down? I'll take that bet, and I'll set up a paypal account to collect, since I know I won.

Give you a hint. I write academically on tank development, and the M1 upgrade program is pretty high on US Army plans.

[Hegstoria]

lmao I said the ARE, I must have accidentally added the n't to that lol my mistake. If you read my whole post you would see that was obviously not my intention. I will edit now.

[The Grand World Order]

K, let me show you where you went wrong....US Tactics (Or any other country's around the world) would never allow for a tank to go off on it's own for a little while. Abrams happen to be expensive and they don't want to possibly lose it in the situation you're suggesting.
These 2 Abrams would likely also have at least 2 squads of infantry with some form of anti-armor missiles. These squads would have the capability to call air support, so there goes your Mi-28. So then, your little BMP explodes in a giant fireball of metal and gas.

Not to mention, the Abrams STILL might possibly survive the rockets. And, if the Mi-28 is flying low enough, the Abrams certainly could shoot it down via a flechette shell, or even the M2 mounted on top of it.

But, like you said, combined arms, so my point's pretty much redundant.

[Bafuria]

1 pixel = 1 cm.

Unit cost 5.4 million USD
Number built: 15.000
Weight: 37 tons fully armored and loaded.
Length: 7.5 meters with gun forward; 6.1 meter hull length.
Width 3.4 meters
Height: 2.24 meters
Crew: 3 (commander, driver, gunner)
Armor: RHA (export model), Steel/ceramic composite armor, electric reactive armor.
Primary armament: 125mm smoothbore cannon, 25+1 shell in turret.
Secondary armament: 1x 7.62x51mm Elding MB-21 Medium machine gun, 2x 7.62x51mm Coaxial guns.
Engine: 970 Kw, 12 cylinder TDI engine.
Power/weight: 35.1 hp/ton
Transmission: 8 fwd, 2 rev.
Suspension: Hydropneumatic
Ground clearance: 0.51 m
Fuel capacity: 1500 l internal
Operational range: 670 km
Speed: 88 kph on road; Never exceed 60 kph off road.