NS infantry discussion thread. Mark II

[San-Silvacian]

I'm designing a LAAG for the Juggernaut, or probably a dedicated armor suit. Can anyone tell me which would be better? 2, 20mm guns or 1 .50cal 3 barreled gun?

From what I've seen, dual autocannons are preferable to multi-barrel weapons.

Dual 40mm autocannons for best results.

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holy fuck. One of your guys has 12 launched grenades, 2 thrown grenades and 4 rifle grenades? Shit.

Apparently San grenadiers don't fuck around when it comes to making thing go boom.

You probably don't want to see San demo-troops/combat engineers.

It was a better option than everyman getting an M136. That doesn't mean in conflict they won't happily all carry an M136, but on paper thats what it wold look like.

San troops get crazy when they need to.

What's a handgun that I could use to replace my Mk.1 in the 60's-70's? It would need to be simple, rugged, and be able to chamber a .450. cartridge.

Mk.1:
(Image)

CZ-97B.

I approve.

It just a little 6.5mm round.

So why's the bolt so massive?

BECAUSE.

[Fordorsia]

What's a handgun that I could use to replace my Mk.1 in the 60's-70's? It would need to be simple, rugged, and be able to chamber a .450. cartridge.

Mk.1:
(Image)

CZ-97B.

That's what I was thinking. I think I actually base my original Mk.2 off it, but never did much in terms of information.

Original Mk.2:

[San-Silvacian]

M1920 - TF - 6.5mm Estovakian
Fusil d'infanterie modèle 1937 (FIM-37) - NS - 7.5x54mm French
Fusil d'infanterie modèle 1949 (FIM-49) - NS - 7.5x54mm French

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

What's a handgun that I could use to replace my Mk.1 in the 60's-70's? It would need to be simple, rugged, and be able to chamber a .450. cartridge.

Mk.1:
(Image)

I've always thought rather highly of the Jericho 941.

[Fordorsia]

What's a handgun that I could use to replace my Mk.1 in the 60's-70's? It would need to be simple, rugged, and be able to chamber a .450. cartridge.

Mk.1:
(Image)

I've always thought rather highly of the Jericho 941.

I'll think about that too. That thing looks orgasmic.

[Yes Im Biop]

I'm designing a LAAG for the Juggernaut, or probably a dedicated armor suit. Can anyone tell me which would be better? 2, 20mm guns or 1 .50cal 3 barreled gun?

From what I've seen, dual autocannons are preferable to multi-barrel weapons.

Dual 40mm autocannons for best results.

---

holy fuck. One of your guys has 12 launched grenades, 2 thrown grenades and 4 rifle grenades? Shit.

Apparently San grenadiers don't fuck around when it comes to making thing go boom.

You probably don't want to see San demo-troops/combat engineers.

I'm wondering how much that will weigh, Recoil is still a concern, Hence the 20mm or .50 option's.

[Imperializt Russia]

So, considering the grenades for my OICW.
I'm thinking medium-velocity above 100m/s, possibly up to 200-250m/s

I'm thinking a standard HEDP grenade, with the design goal of being more powerful than the M433 grenade (more than 45g filler, possibly a bigger HEAT cone): http://www.mlmintl.com/40mmHEDP-M433I.pdf
A heavier AT grenade, so I'm thinking a longer cone and possibly a more exotic liner material to significantly boost its penetration
And a directional smart anti-personnel grenade, capable of directing fragmentation in a special direction.

There are two concepts that Aqi showed me yesterday.
Page 11, to achieve the effect on page 9: http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2011smallarms/ ... erhala.pdf

I was wondering if anyone figured which concept the thought sounded better.
It strikes me that the "counter-rotational detonation wave" (the idea, for those who don't understand the diagram, seems to have the projectile spinning in flight and a detonation sequence begins in the fragmentation layer in the opposite direction, keeping the fragmentation stream in roughly the same orientation) might be prone to target shift and device failure (setting up a chain reaction to travel at thousands of rpm against a rotation?), but the "reconfigured sections" seems like it might be capable of generating a wider fragmentation field, but may fail to correctly fold out in flight.

Personally, I like the reconfigured sections concept.

Repost, with image for your opining.

[Bezombia]

Top: KKA-92, finalized production design that entered service as the Benomian standard issue assault rifle in 1992.
Bottom: AKB, updated version that entered the civilian market it late 2012.

Changes include:
-A somewhat flatter receiver, with a steeper incline on the rear of the receiver cover.
-The receiver cover pop-off button was moved to the left side of the receiver instead of being on the rear.
-Grips on the grip to reduce hand sliding were added.
-The front sight was moved to mounted on the barrel behind the muzzle, rather than on the gas block.
-The rear sights were moved back a bit (this, in addition to the above, greatly increased sight radius).
-A more curved ejection port.
-A return to the traditional Kalashnikov style charging handle, rather than the Galil-style upswept handle.
-Thickening of the handgaud, and mounting of integral PCAP attachment systems integral to the handguard.
-A full hooded front sight, rather than a partially hooded front sight.

[Aqizithiuda]

So, considering the grenades for my OICW.
I'm thinking medium-velocity above 100m/s, possibly up to 200-250m/s

I'd keep velocity down below 130 m/s if you're using a standard 180 gram projectile. That should keep recoil below the 60 joule mark, which is the most you want for a handheld, military weapon.

I'm thinking a standard HEDP grenade, with the design goal of being more powerful than the M433 grenade (more than 45g filler, possibly a bigger HEAT cone): http://www.mlmintl.com/40mmHEDP-M433I.pdf
A heavier AT grenade, so I'm thinking a longer cone and possibly a more exotic liner material to significantly boost its penetration
And a directional smart anti-personnel grenade, capable of directing fragmentation in a special direction.

There are two concepts that Aqi showed me yesterday.
Page 11, to achieve the effect on page 9: http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2011smallarms/ ... erhala.pdf

I was wondering if anyone figured which concept the thought sounded better.
It strikes me that the "counter-rotational detonation wave" (the idea, for those who don't understand the diagram, seems to have the projectile spinning in flight and a detonation sequence begins in the fragmentation layer in the opposite direction, keeping the fragmentation stream in roughly the same orientation) might be prone to target shift and device failure (setting up a chain reaction to travel at thousands of rpm against a rotation?), but the "reconfigured sections" seems like it might be capable of generating a wider fragmentation field, but may fail to correctly fold out in flight.

Personally, I like the reconfigured sections concept.

Here's a better picture of the reconfigured sections concept.

I, personally, like the counter-rotating wave idea best, since if you add a base detonator, you can have a directed frag and armour penetrating round.

This presentation may also give you ideas for your dedicated anti-armour round.

(Image)
Repost, with image for your opining.

I'd drop one of the grenades, since it looks like the barrel might end up being too short otherwise. I'm also wondering why one of the grenades has fins, and think that the entire ogive should be covered by the shirt of the preceeding round, as per this diagram. See also this diagram.

[Imperializt Russia]

It's exceedingly WIP
The HEAT liner cone I've drawn probably wouldn't work well either, just because I have drawn it.
I'm toying with deploying fins. I thought that the AICW was going to have a four-round capacity at one point?

The positioning of the rounds just now isn't representative of where they'll end up. Barrel's going to go back to the stock, just like everything else - it's not drawn yet

I put a thread up on NSD asking about the possible designs for the cartridges, and thanks for the other tips!
When you mention the configured segments, do you mean the Batelle design on page 6? I downloaded that pdf myself a few days ago, I only realise earlier today that it was the same concept.

[Aqizithiuda]

It's exceedingly WIP
The HEAT liner cone I've drawn probably wouldn't work well either, just because I have drawn it.
I'm toying with deploying fins. I thought that the AICW was going to have a four-round capacity at one point?

Yep, that was the initial concept. 4 grenades (376mm stacked length, 239mm barrel length). I think they probably removed one for increased barrel length/decreased weight. There was also the possibility of it having 5 rounds. The 20mm concept was 4 or 6 rounds with a shorter length (6 rounds = 386mm stacked length). It's in one fo the pdfs in the zip folder I posted a few pages back.

The positioning of the rounds just now isn't representative of where they'll end up. Barrel's going to go back to the stock, just like everything else - it's not drawn yet

Fair enough xD

I put a thread up on NSD asking about the possible designs for the cartridges, and thanks for the other tips!
When you mention the configured segments, do you mean the Batelle design on page 6? I downloaded that pdf myself a few days ago, I only realise earlier today that it was the same concept.

Yeah, that's the design I meant.

[Imperializt Russia]

Weirdly, 376mm stacked length is almost exactly what I got. My cartridges are slightly larger, but obviously don't fully overlap.On an aesthetic note, to cover the ogive with the skirt, I feel that I may need a locking collar that serves no purpose but to cover the ogive. Aside from the base of the rearmost cartridge, it would not affect stacked length.

Though, since these tubes would be factory loaded, I assume the rearmost cartridge would not require the locking collar. So that could be almost entirely a cosmetic fix.

I am considering, though not with barrel inserts, 30 and 35mm versions, at least as concepts. 30mm certainly, since an early design goal would probably be to replicate the AGS-17/30's cartridges with the Metal Storm technology. The 35mm concept due to my infatuation with the Type 87 grenade rifle.

[Coltarin]

So in relation to the entire OICW/AICW thing I may actually just do what the Americans did and break the project into two parts, because I want a nice cool launcher deployed at a squad level but I want the flexibility that can only be fulfilled by a mag fed launcher. Like this one

[Imperializt Russia]

An early foray into the 30mm launcher I was already considering was just taking the VOG-30 30mm grenades and putting them in a mag-fed OICW with a twin-magazine of 7mm and 30mm

[Aqizithiuda]

Weirdly, 376mm stacked length is almost exactly what I got. My cartridges are slightly larger, but obviously don't fully overlap.On an aesthetic note, to cover the ogive with the skirt, I feel that I may need a locking collar that serves no purpose but to cover the ogive. Aside from the base of the rearmost cartridge, it would not affect stacked length.

Though, since these tubes would be factory loaded, I assume the rearmost cartridge would not require the locking collar. So that could be almost entirely a cosmetic fix.

I am considering, though not with barrel inserts, 30 and 35mm versions, at least as concepts. 30mm certainly, since an early design goal would probably be to replicate the AGS-17/30's cartridges with the Metal Storm technology. The 35mm concept due to my infatuation with the Type 87 grenade rifle.

I suspect that the later prototypes didn't use the preloaded tubes but went the individual grenade route like the 3GL did. It would make the ammunition just that little bit less awkward to carry around.

An early foray into the 30mm launcher I was already considering was just taking the VOG-30 30mm grenades and putting them in a mag-fed OICW with a twin-magazine of 7mm and 30mm

I hope you don't put the muzzle velocity much above 70 m/s.

[Registug]

Woah woah wait, Para's doing art???

STOREFRONT WHEN????

[Bezombia]

Woah woah wait, Para's doing art???

STOREFRONT WHEN????

Para's been doing art since as long as I can remember

[Registug]

Woah woah wait, Para's doing art???

STOREFRONT WHEN????

Para's been doing art since as long as I can remember

Para did art. What he does now is procrastinate for two entire years while all the while assuring us that yes he'll get shit done soon©

But legends foretold the day when the drought would be broken, heralding the return of Samozniy Military Industries and the great stories we all loved

The chance of this being the legendary return is a percentage higher than zero and less than one

He's probably just going to be lazy again

[New Tsavon]

Para's been doing art since as long as I can remember

Para did art. What he does now is procrastinate for two entire years while all the while assuring us that yes he'll get shit done soon©

But legends foretold the day when the drought would be broken, heralding the return of Samozniy Military Industries and the great stories we all loved

Has it been two years already?

I could have sworn it was only last week....

[Registug]

Para did art. What he does now is procrastinate for two entire years while all the while assuring us that yes he'll get shit done soon©

But legends foretold the day when the drought would be broken, heralding the return of Samozniy Military Industries and the great stories we all loved

Has it been two years already?

I could have sworn it was only last week....

Yes

It was a sad day in Sapphire history

[Fordorsia]

WIP

[Bezombia]

WIP

(Image)

That doesn't look like a CZ-85 at all...

[Fordorsia]

WIP

(Image)

That doesn't look like a CZ-85 at all...

Jericho 941.

[New Tsavon]

That doesn't look like a CZ-85 at all...

Jericho 941.

In that case, I am so making a notCZ97B for Tsavon's "modern" service pistol. By the way, Ford, your Jericho rip looks excellent.

Should it be in 7.65x30mm?

[Rich and Corporations]

Is anyone with an NSD account having problems there?
I'm getting slow page loads, a (104) error "connection reset by peer" and then when it eventually posted a thread for me, the thread initially displayed a "page could not be loaded".

it's experiencing rich and corporation's revenge

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The HEAT liner cone I've drawn probably wouldn't work well either, just because I have drawn it.

Just read the GCV by the CBO document. It has some nice information on HEAT liner cones. DTIC has some nice information too, but it's mostly pre-depleted uranium information.