NS infantry discussion thread. Mark II

[Aethal]

1890s belt fed LMG lol.

A Lewis Gun style forced cooling shroud, it would work in 1915 or sommat.

[Aqizithiuda]

Random question time.

As you may remember, I have inquired before about bullets made completely out of steel. And the conclusion we reached is that they would suck because they would be too light for their own good (light = inaccurate) and the lack of a copper jacket means a lack of lubrication in the barrel meaning bad things.

So here is a related question. Say I wanted to make my projectile light for what ever reason. The exact reason does not matter but I do. How would a copper jacketed all steel bullet perform? As in you have a copper jacket and a solid chunk of steel inside without any lead.

You mean a modern lead free projectile, like what NAMMO and RUAG do?

Yeah, sure.

thanks! it will be an important addition to the image for sure.

Do it again, but sight your rifle at 250 or 300m.

like this?

..............................................................

well, now proceeding to art the round. i'll need your help, people.

first question of many to come: i'm going to make a ballistic tip round with a plastic tip. now the problem is, i want this particular round to be lead-free. so what should i do?

should i make it steel-cored and copper-jacketed? all-copper? all-brass? or should i use something other than those? if so, what should i use?
i lost track of how many "?" i used in this post

There's no point in a ballistic tipped round if you're going lead free. Just use a copper jacketed steel projectile (SG=8-8.1)

[United states of brazilian nations]

thanks! it will be an important addition to the image for sure.



like this?

..............................................................

well, now proceeding to art the round. i'll need your help, people.

first question of many to come: i'm going to make a ballistic tip round with a plastic tip. now the problem is, i want this particular round to be lead-free. so what should i do?

should i make it steel-cored and copper-jacketed? all-copper? all-brass? or should i use something other than those? if so, what should i use?
i lost track of how many "?" i used in this post

There's no point in a ballistic tipped round if you're going lead free. Just use a copper jacketed steel projectile (SG=8-8.1)

well, i'll make lots of boolits that have no point at all. so, if i were to design a ballistic tip, plastic-tip round, would it be reasonable to use a full copper/brass projectile? would it be affective against relatively unarmored targets (AKA guerrilas)?. then for armored targets, a steel-cored round with an air cavity.

i started thinking about this when someone posted this photo some pages ago.

[Imperializt Russia]

I was actually looking for a completely different design when I found that.
But it illustrated the point quite nicely.

[Bezombia]

To not be stuck using monstrosities like the PK, PKM, PKP, and SVD?

This is why I asked, so I could have the ability to use a GPMG other than the PK. Even though I've already done that with the Vz. 59.

...You do realize that the feeding mechanism used by the PK is extremely common, right?
Even MGs firing rimless cartridges such as the M1919, M2 Browning, Mk. 21 Mod 0, Maxim, Vickers, etc. etc. etc.

[United states of brazilian nations]

I was actually looking for a completely different design when I found that.
But it illustrated the point quite nicely.

i figured that something based around that, with a plastic tip for moar aerodynamics, and made of brass (because copper is fairly more expensive than brass, so much that each one of these in .45 ACP costs around two dollars) would make quite a fearsome round for engaging unarmored targets (because it doesn't look like it's gonna have a lot of penetration).

[Aqizithiuda]

I was actually looking for a completely different design when I found that.
But it illustrated the point quite nicely.

i figured that something based around that, with a plastic tip for moar aerodynamics, and made of brass (because copper is fairly more expensive than brass, so much that each one of these in .45 ACP costs around two dollars) would make quite a fearsome round for engaging unarmored targets (because it doesn't look like it's gonna have a lot of penetration).

Your idea could work, but I believe that brass is harder than copper, so barrel wear will be greater.

Now, with regards to your round, here's a calculated case capacity for it.

Plugging the case capacity into the Powley Computer, I get 88 kpsi for the velocity you've given. The best I can get with Powley is 2450 ft/s (57kpsi), but LoadAmmo suggests that this will actually be around 60kpsi. 2400 ft/s seems to be about the practical limit for your round.

(edit: I did modify the round slightly, though)

[Premislyd]

Name: 5.6x40mm Jeneral Proposal (General Purpose)
Bullet diameter: 5.6 mm
Bullet length: 24.4
Bullet weight: 65 gr (average)
Neck diameter: 7.6 mm
Shoulder diameter: 9.6 mm
Base diameter: 10.4 mm
Rim diameter: 10.4 mm
Rim thickness: 1.4 mm
Case length: 39.8 mm
Case capacity: 29 grains H₂O
Overall length: 57 mm

redux

[United states of brazilian nations]

i figured that something based around that, with a plastic tip for moar aerodynamics, and made of brass (because copper is fairly more expensive than brass, so much that each one of these in .45 ACP costs around two dollars) would make quite a fearsome round for engaging unarmored targets (because it doesn't look like it's gonna have a lot of penetration).

Your idea could work, but I believe that brass is harder than copper, so barrel wear will be greater.

Now, with regards to your round, here's a calculated case capacity for it.

Plugging the case capacity into the Powley Computer, I get 88 kpsi for the velocity you've given. The best I can get with Powley is 2450 ft/s (57kpsi), but LoadAmmo suggests that this will actually be around 60kpsi. 2400 ft/s seems to be about the practical limit for your round.

well, i've made some changes for the round, regarding shoulder lenght and all. mainly so the aesthetics aren't shitty, but it will increase case capacity just a little.

also, i plan on using ticker walls and highly compressed, overpressure charges for moar velocities. specialized AP rounds will be even more overpressure and will probably be steel-cased for that very reason.

in other news, i made an initial drawning:

[Aqizithiuda]

Your idea could work, but I believe that brass is harder than copper, so barrel wear will be greater.

Now, with regards to your round, here's a calculated case capacity for it.

Plugging the case capacity into the Powley Computer, I get 88 kpsi for the velocity you've given. The best I can get with Powley is 2450 ft/s (57kpsi), but LoadAmmo suggests that this will actually be around 60kpsi. 2400 ft/s seems to be about the practical limit for your round.

well, i've made some changes for the round, regarding shoulder lenght and all. mainly so the aesthetics aren't shitty, but it will increase case capacity just a little.

also, i plan on using ticker walls and highly compressed, overpressure charges for moar velocities. specialized AP rounds will be even more overpressure and will probably be steel-cased for that very reason.

in other news, i made an initial drawning:

If you'll notice, the shoulder I gave the cartridge is the same size as what you changed it to .

Going above 65kpsi is a bad idea for any round, and above 60 kpsi a really bad idea for anything but specialised sniper rounds. Just stick with non-exotic solutions for now.

[Bezombia]

Your idea could work, but I believe that brass is harder than copper, so barrel wear will be greater.

Now, with regards to your round, here's a calculated case capacity for it.

Plugging the case capacity into the Powley Computer, I get 88 kpsi for the velocity you've given. The best I can get with Powley is 2450 ft/s (57kpsi), but LoadAmmo suggests that this will actually be around 60kpsi. 2400 ft/s seems to be about the practical limit for your round.

well, i've made some changes for the round, regarding shoulder lenght and all. mainly so the aesthetics aren't shitty, but it will increase case capacity just a little.

also, i plan on using ticker walls and highly compressed, overpressure charges for moar velocities. specialized AP rounds will be even more overpressure and will probably be steel-cased for that very reason.

in other news, i made an initial drawning:

Wait what's the name of this cartridge again?

[Sediczja]

Apologies if this doesn't count as infantry, but since it's a means of transporting infantry I'll chance it.

TrP-2A

The Transporter Pansarij (Armoured Transporter) 2A is Sediczja's main armoured personnel carrier. Designed in 1954 and beginning production in 1960, it is both unarmed and thinly armoured (though with an option to mount a 7.3mm GPMG on the commander's cupola), which are the vehicle's main drawbacks. The TrP-2A serves in mechanised and motorised regiments within the Sediczjan Ground Forces, though trials are currently underway to find a replacement.

==========

YEP. First vehicle I've made in Sketchup, and it shows. Sorry about the general lack of detail or sensible layout

[United states of brazilian nations]

well, i've made some changes for the round, regarding shoulder lenght and all. mainly so the aesthetics aren't shitty, but it will increase case capacity just a little.

also, i plan on using ticker walls and highly compressed, overpressure charges for moar velocities. specialized AP rounds will be even more overpressure and will probably be steel-cased for that very reason.

in other news, i made an initial drawning:

Wait what's the name of this cartridge again?

still unsure if i'll call it 6.8x41mm USBN or 7x41mm USBN. by the commonly accepted standard (measured by the bore), it should be 6.8x41mm USBN.

[United states of brazilian nations]

well, i've made some changes for the round, regarding shoulder lenght and all. mainly so the aesthetics aren't shitty, but it will increase case capacity just a little.

also, i plan on using ticker walls and highly compressed, overpressure charges for moar velocities. specialized AP rounds will be even more overpressure and will probably be steel-cased for that very reason.

in other news, i made an initial drawning:
(Image)

If you'll notice, the shoulder I gave the cartridge is the same size as what you changed it to .

Going above 65kpsi is a bad idea for any round, and above 60 kpsi a really bad idea for anything but specialised sniper rounds. Just stick with non-exotic solutions for now.

well, shit.

but then, how can the 6.8 SPC (which is pretty similar, being only 0.7mm wider at the base and other minor differences i suppose) push a 115 grain round at 2575 ft/s?

also, it appears that the powley computer underestimates loads/pressures/velocities when you get to relatively high pressures (near and/or above 50000 CUP, though i have no idea what would that be in psi).

[Bezombia]

If you want a larger case capacity you could always give it another 1.2mm of case and give it a nice taper so the bottom's wider.

[Premislyd]

5.6x40mm production model ASG-60, introduced in 1968.

[Bezombia]

(Image)

5.6x40mm production model ASG-60, introduced in 1968.

Needs modernized version with folding polymer stock & optic bracket

[Sediczja]

(Image)

5.6x40mm production model ASG-60, introduced in 1968.

Now that's a smooth rifle. Is that a Tantal-inspired muzzle brake I see?

[Premislyd]

(Image)

5.6x40mm production model ASG-60, introduced in 1968.

Needs modernized version with folding polymer stock & optic bracket

It already has a dove-tail rail for optics on the left-side of the receiver.

(Image)

5.6x40mm production model ASG-60, introduced in 1968.

Now that's a smooth rifle. Is that a Tantal-inspired muzzle brake I see?

Thanks, and yes, though it's from san serb

[Bezombia]

Needs modernized version with folding polymer stock & optic bracket

It already has a dove-tail rail for optics on the left-side of the receiver.

Good
Now just needs lolymer funiture and folding stock

[Aqizithiuda]

If you'll notice, the shoulder I gave the cartridge is the same size as what you changed it to .

Going above 65kpsi is a bad idea for any round, and above 60 kpsi a really bad idea for anything but specialised sniper rounds. Just stick with non-exotic solutions for now.

well, shit.

but then, how can the 6.8 SPC (which is pretty similar, being only 0.7mm wider at the base and other minor differences i suppose) push a 115 grain round at 2575 ft/s?

also, it appears that the powley computer underestimates loads/pressures/velocities when you get to relatively high pressures (near and/or above 50000 CUP, though i have no idea what would that be in psi).

It's wider and longer. That's how.

(Image)

5.6x40mm production model ASG-60, introduced in 1968.

vZ. 58 based, I take it?

[Premislyd]

vZ. 58 based, I take it?

Mhm. Basically, just my notvz.58 chambered in a higher pressure 5.45x39mm and CZ 2000 gas tube thing

[Aqizithiuda]

vZ. 58 based, I take it?

Mhm. Basically, just my notvz.58 chambered in a higher pressure 5.45x39mm and CZ 2000 gas tube thing

Very nice.

[United states of brazilian nations]

well, guess i'll need to make something else then.

http://www.geoffrey-kolbe.com/cgi-bin/t ... age=794366

this has got to be the intermediate cartridge with the worst muzzle energy ever. hell, it is less than the 5.56 NATO.
would it still be acceptable? keep in mind my nation is 80% jungle so it'll have to do stuff like pass through foilage.

[Premislyd]

well, guess i'll need to make something else then.

http://www.geoffrey-kolbe.com/cgi-bin/t ... age=794366

this has got to be the intermediate cartridge with the worst muzzle velocity ever.

(Image)

Straight-walled cartridges are a bad idea too