NS infantry discussion thread. Mark II

[Ea90]

I'm pretty sure that the APT is proof enough that API doesn't work on rifles.

One example does not a proof make.

[Purpelia]

I have to agree with beno on this. If you want a side mounted piston that's balanced just make a rifle with a forward ejection system on one side and a gas piston on the other. The weight of the two tubes should balance out more or less (the weight of the piston being offset by the much wider ejection tube).

[Spreewerke]

I have to agree with beno on this. If you want a side mounted piston that's balanced just make a rifle with a forward ejection system on one side and a gas piston on the other. The weight of the two tubes should balance out more or less (the weight of the piston being offset by the much wider ejection tube).

You're aware that the ejection tube is filled with air while the piston body is filled with piston, right?

[Purpelia]

I have to agree with beno on this. If you want a side mounted piston that's balanced just make a rifle with a forward ejection system on one side and a gas piston on the other. The weight of the two tubes should balance out more or less (the weight of the piston being offset by the much wider ejection tube).

You're aware that the ejection tube is filled with air while the piston body is filled with piston, right?

Yes I am. But realistically speaking it's better to have an othervise useful and mechanically simple addition that improves the balance of a gun than to have a complicated and convoluted one that balances it perfectly.

[Inquilabstan]

Too big for NS. Credits to Allmann

http://oi39.tinypic.com/254y3ye.jpg

From left to right.
Row 1: Two superfluous designs, standard infantry, vehicle crew, NCO, CBRN 1, work dress, SKG jawan (Brandenburger like), NBC 2, officer's dress uniform, honor guard.
Row 2: Himalayan jawan, desert jawan, Red Guard, officer combat dress, mechanic, dress uniform, camo work uniform, peoples militia, navy, airforce, PT uniform/barracks uniform.

[Spreewerke]

You're aware that the ejection tube is filled with air while the piston body is filled with piston, right?

Yes I am. But realistically speaking it's better to have an othervise useful and mechanically simple addition that improves the balance of a gun than to have a complicated and convoluted one that balances it perfectly.

Or they could just use a side-mounted short-stroke since those tend to weigh less than long-stroke. The M1 Carbine's piston system might even be possible, and if so, the miniscule amount of weight it would add probably wouldn't affect balance that much at all. Just use an oprod-type system and position the piston to hit the side of it rather than the bottom.

[Bezombia]

Wasn't the F2000 set up like that? Perfectly balanced via piston on left and ejection tube on right?

[Immoren]

Heavy weapons platoon for infantry COy

Platoon HQ

Platoon leader - (Ensign-Lieutenant;AR, disposable AT-launcher)
Platoon 2ic - (Sergeant-Sergeant First Class;AR, disposable AT-launcher)
RTO - (Private-Private First Class; AR)
Medic - (Private-Private First Class; AR)

Medium Machine Gun Squad
Squad leader (Corporal-Sergeant ;AR, disposable AT-launcher)
3xMedium Machine Gun Team

Team leader - (lance corporal-corporal; AR, disposable AT-launcher)
Machine gunner - (Private-Private First Class; LWMMG)
Machine gunner's Assistant - (Private-Private First Class; AR)

Anti-tank Squad
Squad leader (Corporal-Sergeant ;AR, NLAW)
3xAnti-tank Team

Team leader - (lance corporal-corporal; AR, NLAW)
AT-rifleman - (Private-Private First Class; NLAW, AR)
AT-rifleman - (Private-Private First Class; AR, NLAW)

Grenadier Squad
Squad leader (Corporal-Sergeant ;AR, , disposable AT-launcher)
3xGrenadier Team

Team leader - (lance corporal-corporal; AR, disposable AT-launcher)
Grenadier - (Private-Private First Class; CDTE, AR)
Grenadier's Assistant - (Private-Private First Class; AR)

[Purpelia]

Yes I am. But realistically speaking it's better to have an othervise useful and mechanically simple addition that improves the balance of a gun than to have a complicated and convoluted one that balances it perfectly.

Or they could just use a side-mounted short-stroke since those tend to weigh less than long-stroke. The M1 Carbine's piston system might even be possible, and if so, the miniscule amount of weight it would add probably wouldn't affect balance that much at all. Just use an oprod-type system and position the piston to hit the side of it rather than the bottom.

Well yes. There is that as well.

[Imperializt Russia]

Wasn't the F2000 set up like that? Perfectly balanced via piston on left and ejection tube on right?

The ejection tube is central, while the piston tube is canted at about 45 degrees from the vertical to the left. Charging handle's on that side too. Can't remember how it works though, the site that I had which showed me the connections for the charging handle and how it interacted has largely 404'd.

[Purpelia]

Speaking of connections and pistons. Am I the only one who is in love with the M1 style under barrel gas tube?

[Blackledge]

Thoughts on combat shotguns?
Pump-action or other?

[Graditora]

Thoughts on combat shotguns?
Pump-action or other?

Very specialized but when used for said special purposes: "It was super effective!"

[Aqizithiuda]

I'm pretty sure that the APT is proof enough that API doesn't work on rifles.

One example does not a proof make.

Do we really need to talk about how ignition of the propellant before the cartridge has headspaced can cause splitting and buckling in the case* again? Or talk about the need for lubricated cases, a heavy bolt and a necessarily low rate of fire?

*assuming you're trying to use an existing, non-API rated cartridge.

[Bezombia]

Thoughts on combat shotguns?
Pump-action or other?

Good for breaching doors and such.

[Imperializt Russia]

Thoughts on combat shotguns?
Pump-action or other?

On authority of those who have used combat shotguns, the rate of fire improvements of automatic shotguns are not especially worth much.

[Purpelia]

Are combat shotguns really worth it thou? I mean, outside of heavy urban combat (which you would specifically prepare for) or very niche units like SWAT teams I don't see them getting much use beyond blasting doors open.

[3 State Alliance]

Are combat shotguns really worth it thou? I mean, outside of heavy urban combat (which you would specifically prepare for) or very niche units like SWAT teams I don't see them getting much use beyond blasting doors open.

I know in WWI there was an attempt to get the M1897 banned from combat use as an inhumane weapon - this was back in the days of bolt-actions though, where a pump-action shotgun would be vastly superior to a rifle for tight quarters.

[Imperializt Russia]

I think it was more the fact that the weapon used buckshot.
The Germans felt that it was inhumane. Can't remember the exact reasoning behind it though.

[3 State Alliance]

I think it was more the fact that the weapon used buckshot.
The Germans felt that it was inhumane. Can't remember the exact reasoning behind it though.

it was a very effective weapon for trench clearing, at that time, but by WWII SMGs could do just about everything a shotgun could, much better

[Bezombia]

Keep in mind they also tried to ban the M16 on the grounds that it killed too well against soft targets.

[Purpelia]

Are combat shotguns really worth it thou? I mean, outside of heavy urban combat (which you would specifically prepare for) or very niche units like SWAT teams I don't see them getting much use beyond blasting doors open.

I know in WWI there was an attempt to get the M1897 banned from combat use as an inhumane weapon - this was back in the days of boltactions though when a shotgun would be vastly superior then a rifle for tight quarters.

This was a time where combat in tight quarters was a routine thing that you could expect to happen on a daily basis during combat operations. If my army was marching into Stalingrad or the trenches of the Somme I would probably issue them with combat shotguns as well. But my point was that this is not exactly a common situation in modern maneuver warfare.

[Imperializt Russia]

Keep in mind they also tried to ban the M16 on the grounds that it killed too well against soft targets.

I believe that was put down to a misunderstanding of the ballistic properties of the new cartridge.

[Immoren]

Outside special forces, I thought of issuing shotguns at least for military police teams.
Not sure of "Gate keeper" infantry units.

[3 State Alliance]

I know in WWI there was an attempt to get the M1897 banned from combat use as an inhumane weapon - this was back in the days of boltactions though when a shotgun would be vastly superior then a rifle for tight quarters.

This was a time where combat in tight quarters was a routine thing that you could expect to happen on a daily basis during combat operations. If my army was marching into Stalingrad or the trenches of the Somme I would probably issue them with combat shotguns as well. But my point was that this is not exactly a common situation in modern maneuver warfare.

they could be good for garrison troops in recently occupied areas, but apart from that and the odd special forces team use is limited in the modern day