NS infantry discussion thread. Mark II

[Immoren]

(Image)

yo dawk i heard u like optics

Needs more optics.

[Celritannia]

That's why I have a 5 man 'fire team' (Or Celritannian Squads) and a 10 man section. If one fire team is pinned the other fire team can help.

That's what your supposed to do.

My 'fire teams' are more independent than IRL though

[Immoren]

That's what your supposed to do.

My 'fire teams' are more independent than IRL though

Define "more independent than IRL".

[Spreewerke]

Once more. Punk style tight rubber or PVC pants for military issue. Y/N and why?

all of teh chafing

general discomfort

the sweating

the difficulty in dressing in such garments

The fact that they will start to look shabby and horribly dirty unless you spend all your time either doign nothing soldiery or stop every 5 mins to cleana nd oil them.

I also don't think they have terribly long wear lives.

As far as I cna se the only reason to have them would be "Purpelia" or having a high command full of fetishists (which may be the same thing).

You forgot to mention that it's loud as fuck. Our butchers have to wear PVC overalls and you can hear them from across the building.



As per folding stocks being used in CQB: no. Why would you consider this?

Let's take a look at some CQB with folding-stock-equipped weapons, though: look at all the stocks that are folded!

[Celritannia]

My 'fire teams' are more independent than IRL though

Define "more independent than IRL".

In urban warfare, 'fire teams' will be the main unit of choice to charge and clear objectives.

[Gvozdevsk]

I was wondering why not some modern infantry squads don't have explicitly marked second in command.
Is the reason
A) By the time 2iC would be taking command, squad would already be worthless as unit due to losses it's sustained.
or
B)It's thought to be common sense, that squad members figure out whom takes charge after SL falls
or
C)Other.

In Canadian sections the 2IC is the Master Corporal. I believe that you even have to go through some kind of leadership course to be promoted to Master Corporal in the infantry.

[Blackledge]

It doesn't mean anything. I don't know why I added it.
But fo example US army and USMC squads don't seem to have explicit 2iC positions.
And I am not about Russians either...

Seems like an obvious thing, though, what with ranks and teams already in place.
Plus, the US has an overabundance of sergeants anyway so certainly there's always a couple more waiting to step up.

I believe that you even have to go through some kind of leadership course to be promoted to Master Corporal in the infantry.

This is true, the infantry has the ISCC (Infantry Section Commander's Course).

[Kaledy]

Kaledian Military Ranks

Non-commissioned Officers




Silver/blue helmet: Kaledian stormtrooper.
Blue/blue helmet: Kaledian corporal.
Blue/blue helmet + blue/blue skirt: Kaledian sergeant

Commissioned Officers




Black/blue helmet: Kaledian lieutenant
Black/blue helmet + black/blue skirt: Kaledian captain.
Black/silver helmet: Kaledian major.




Black/white helmet: Kaledian colonel.
Black/black helmet: Kaledian brigadier.
Black/gold helmet: Kaledian general.

Kaledian Extraterritorial Force




Grey/black helmet: Extraterritorial stormtrooper.
Gold/black helmet: Extraterritorial commander.
Gold/black helmet + gold/black skirt: Extraterritorial commander in chief.

[Spreewerke]

Glad to know snipers won't waste time deciding which target to eliminate.

[Blackledge]

Doesn't colour-coding "ur dudes" just make them more obvious targets on the battlefield?

[The Soodean Imperium]

Any problems with this Mechanized Infantry Platoon? My main concern is about the location of the upper-ranking Sergeants (i.e., one Sgt. 1st Class in the first vehicle's dismounts, and two Staff Sergeants as commanders in the other two vehicles), but feel free to comment on the equipment, fireteam structure, ranks, etc.

1st Squad
Vehicle Team:
- 2nd Lieutenant (Vehicle Commander, Platoon Commander)
- Specialist (Gunner)
- Specialist (Driver-Mechanic)

Anti-Personnel Team:
- Sgt. 1st Class (Platoon Commander's Assistant)
- Sergeant (Rifleman, Squad Leader)
- Corporal (Rifleman, Marksman's Spotter)
- Specialist (Marksman)

Anti-Tank Team:
- Corporal (Team Leader)
- Specialist (AT grenadier)
- Pvt. 1st Class (Rifleman, carries 3 AT rounds)

2nd and 3rd Squads:
Vehicle Team:
- Staff Sergeant (Vehicle Commander)
- Specialist (Gunner)
- Specialist (Driver-Mechanic)

Anti-Personnel Team:
- Sergeant (Rifleman, Squad Leader)
- Corporal (Rifleman, Team Leader)
- Pvt. 1st Class (Rifleman, carries MG ammo)
- Specialist (Machine-gunner)

Anti-Tank Team:
- Corporal (Rifleman, Team Leader)
- Specialist (AT Grenadier)
- Pvt. 1st Class (Rifleman, carries 3 AT rounds)

[Kaledy]

[spoiler=OOC:]Notes: I mostly used classical Doctor Who Dalek color schemes for the ranks. The silver and blue stormtrooper is a reference to the classical Mark IV silver and blue Dalek from the Hartnell and Troughton era.

The Black/blue helmet Kaledian lieutenant is a reference to the Evil of the Daleks Supreme Dalek.
The black/blue helmet + black/blue skirt Kaledian captain is in reference to the first two Doctors Supreme Dalek. The Black/silver helmet and skirt Kaledian major is a reference to the Remembrance of the Daleks Supreme Dalek.

Black/white helmet: Kaledian colonel- Resurrection of the Daleks Supreme Dalek.
Black/black helmet: Kaledian brigadier - As far as I know there was never a real completely black Supreme Dalek in the classical series but in The Dalek Invasion of Earth they used a black Dalek with blue balls as a Supreme Dalek. Since this series was filmed in black and white, people mistook it for a fully black Dalek.
There was a fully black Dalek in the new series as well.

Black/gold helmet: Kaledian general from the member of The Supreme Dalek Counsel from Planet of the Daleks.

Grey/black helmet: Extraterritorial stormtrooper - a reference to the grey black Daleks first seen in Day of the Daleks up to Remembrance of the Daleks.
Gold/black helmet + gold/black skirt: Extraterritorial commander in chief - Chief Dalek from Day of the Daleks.

The rest is made up to fill the ranks.[/spoiler]

[Kaledy]

Doesn't colour-coding "ur dudes" just make them more obvious targets on the battlefield?

Yes.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Any problems with this Mechanized Infantry Platoon? My main concern is about the location of the upper-ranking Sergeants (i.e., one Sgt. 1st Class in the first vehicle's dismounts, and two Staff Sergeants as commanders in the other two vehicles), but feel free to comment on the equipment, fireteam structure, ranks, etc.

(Image)

1st Squad
Vehicle Team:
- 2nd Lieutenant (Vehicle Commander, Platoon Commander)
- Specialist (Gunner)
- Specialist (Driver-Mechanic)

Anti-Personnel Team:
- Sgt. 1st Class (Platoon Commander's Assistant)
- Sergeant (Rifleman, Squad Leader)
- Corporal (Rifleman, Marksman's Spotter)
- Specialist (Marksman)

Anti-Tank Team:
- Corporal (Team Leader)
- Specialist (AT grenadier)
- Pvt. 1st Class (Rifleman, carries 3 AT rounds)

2nd and 3rd Squads:
Vehicle Team:
- Staff Sergeant (Vehicle Commander)
- Specialist (Gunner)
- Specialist (Driver-Mechanic)

Anti-Personnel Team:
- Sergeant (Rifleman, Squad Leader)
- Corporal (Rifleman, Team Leader)
- Pvt. 1st Class (Rifleman, carries MG ammo)
- Specialist (Machine-gunner)

Anti-Tank Team:
- Corporal (Rifleman, Team Leader)
- Specialist (AT Grenadier)
- Pvt. 1st Class (Rifleman, carries 3 AT rounds)

very very nice, i love how well organized this is. Also BMP-2 is king.

[Blackledge]

Any problems with this Mechanized Infantry Platoon?

My main concern is about the location of the upper-ranking Sergeants (i.e., one Sgt. 1st Class in the first vehicle's dismounts, and two Staff Sergeants as commanders in the other two vehicles), but feel free to comment on the equipment, fireteam structure, ranks, etc.

(Image)

1st Squad
Vehicle Team:
- 2nd Lieutenant (Vehicle Commander, Platoon Commander)
- Specialist (Gunner)
- Specialist (Driver-Mechanic)

Anti-Personnel Team:
- Sgt. 1st Class (Platoon Commander's Assistant)
- Sergeant (Rifleman, Squad Leader)
- Corporal (Rifleman, Marksman's Spotter)
- Specialist (Marksman)

Anti-Tank Team:
- Corporal (Team Leader)
- Specialist (AT grenadier)
- Pvt. 1st Class (Rifleman, carries 3 AT rounds)

2nd and 3rd Squads:
Vehicle Team:
- Staff Sergeant (Vehicle Commander)
- Specialist (Gunner)
- Specialist (Driver-Mechanic)

Anti-Personnel Team:
- Sergeant (Rifleman, Squad Leader)
- Corporal (Rifleman, Team Leader)
- Pvt. 1st Class (Rifleman, carries MG ammo)
- Specialist (Machine-gunner)

Anti-Tank Team:
- Corporal (Rifleman, Team Leader)
- Specialist (AT Grenadier)
- Pvt. 1st Class (Rifleman, carries 3 AT rounds)

Looks pretty good. Maybe a slightly small platoon boots-on-the-ground-wise, but things fit. If you're basing it on USian ranks, it seems matching from what I know. And in BMPs to boot.

Edit: In fact, thought about adding a fourth vehicle and squad?

Yes.

Heh, alright.

[Immoren]

Looks pretty good. Maybe a slightly small platoon boots-on-the-ground-wise, but things fit. If you're basing it on USian ranks, it seems matching from what I know. And in BMPs to boot.

Edit: In fact, thought about adding a fourth vehicle and squad?
.

If Russians can cope with similarly sized platoons, then I can guess, he could cope too.

[Imperializt Russia]

Any problems with this Mechanized Infantry Platoon?

My main concern is about the location of the upper-ranking Sergeants (i.e., one Sgt. 1st Class in the first vehicle's dismounts, and two Staff Sergeants as commanders in the other two vehicles), but feel free to comment on the equipment, fireteam structure, ranks, etc.

(Image)

1st Squad
Vehicle Team:
- 2nd Lieutenant (Vehicle Commander, Platoon Commander)
- Specialist (Gunner)
- Specialist (Driver-Mechanic)

Anti-Personnel Team:
- Sgt. 1st Class (Platoon Commander's Assistant)
- Sergeant (Rifleman, Squad Leader)
- Corporal (Rifleman, Marksman's Spotter)
- Specialist (Marksman)

Anti-Tank Team:
- Corporal (Team Leader)
- Specialist (AT grenadier)
- Pvt. 1st Class (Rifleman, carries 3 AT rounds)

2nd and 3rd Squads:
Vehicle Team:
- Staff Sergeant (Vehicle Commander)
- Specialist (Gunner)
- Specialist (Driver-Mechanic)

Anti-Personnel Team:
- Sergeant (Rifleman, Squad Leader)
- Corporal (Rifleman, Team Leader)
- Pvt. 1st Class (Rifleman, carries MG ammo)
- Specialist (Machine-gunner)

Anti-Tank Team:
- Corporal (Rifleman, Team Leader)
- Specialist (AT Grenadier)
- Pvt. 1st Class (Rifleman, carries 3 AT rounds)

Looks pretty good. Maybe a slightly small platoon boots-on-the-ground-wise, but things fit. If you're basing it on USian ranks, it seems matching from what I know. And in BMPs to boot.

Edit: In fact, thought about adding a fourth vehicle and squad?

Leaving it as a three vehicle platoon could in theory allow him more manoeuvre elements for the same level of manpower to four-vehicle platoon-based formations.

[Blackledge]

If Russians can cope with similarly sized platoons, then I can guess, he could cope too.

Russians compensate for small platoons with glorious love of the Motherland and deep reserves.

Leaving it as a three vehicle platoon could in theory allow him more manoeuvre elements for the same level of manpower to four-vehicle platoon-based formations.

Plausible enough. That's why I ask. Is the 3 vehicle decision somewhat arbitrary on his part, or part of a larger doctrine? Three-vehicle platoons in a four-platoon company as opposed to the opposite, for example.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Any problems with this Mechanized Infantry Platoon?

My main concern is about the location of the upper-ranking Sergeants (i.e., one Sgt. 1st Class in the first vehicle's dismounts, and two Staff Sergeants as commanders in the other two vehicles), but feel free to comment on the equipment, fireteam structure, ranks, etc.

(Image)

1st Squad
Vehicle Team:
- 2nd Lieutenant (Vehicle Commander, Platoon Commander)
- Specialist (Gunner)
- Specialist (Driver-Mechanic)

Anti-Personnel Team:
- Sgt. 1st Class (Platoon Commander's Assistant)
- Sergeant (Rifleman, Squad Leader)
- Corporal (Rifleman, Marksman's Spotter)
- Specialist (Marksman)

Anti-Tank Team:
- Corporal (Team Leader)
- Specialist (AT grenadier)
- Pvt. 1st Class (Rifleman, carries 3 AT rounds)

2nd and 3rd Squads:
Vehicle Team:
- Staff Sergeant (Vehicle Commander)
- Specialist (Gunner)
- Specialist (Driver-Mechanic)

Anti-Personnel Team:
- Sergeant (Rifleman, Squad Leader)
- Corporal (Rifleman, Team Leader)
- Pvt. 1st Class (Rifleman, carries MG ammo)
- Specialist (Machine-gunner)

Anti-Tank Team:
- Corporal (Rifleman, Team Leader)
- Specialist (AT Grenadier)
- Pvt. 1st Class (Rifleman, carries 3 AT rounds)

Looks pretty good. Maybe a slightly small platoon boots-on-the-ground-wise, but things fit. If you're basing it on USian ranks, it seems matching from what I know. And in BMPs to boot.

Edit: In fact, thought about adding a fourth vehicle and squad?

Yes.

Heh, alright.

I wasn't aware the Russians did this with mechanized infantry too, but I already knew they have (or used to have) 3-tank platoons. Supposedly this lets them have more units/formations, which is obvious really. The only problem I see with this, apart from (according to some, arguable) combat effectiveness, is with really small targets/missions which should be doable with a single platoon, but for anything other than that, they offer better management of forces. The smaller your pixels are, the sharper the image, if you catch my drift.

EDIT: Actually, is this trend followed throughout their whole organization, or is it just for platoons?

Come to think about it, this could have downsides too, but again, I think this is mostly for small, isolated ops. For example, a certain event may be handled by one relatively large brigade but might prove too much for a similar independent formation only smaller. Unless you want to deploy a formation and a half or something like that you now have to deploy two smaller formations and may end up over-doing things as you now have more troops on the field than the guy that uses the bigger formations.

[Blackledge]

I catch you, Dnal. Part of the Russian doctrine strikes me as a reaction to the historic unreliability they've (their higher command) had with their junior officers and especially their NCOs. Putting fewer eggs in each basket, eh?
But maybe Putin has reformed all of that. I wouldn't know. The closest to Russian soldiers I've ever gotten was training with Georgian soldiers, and nothing they said about Russians was positive.

edit: why did i put have and has next to each other...

[The Soodean Imperium]

If Russians can cope with similarly sized platoons, then I can guess, he could cope too.

Russians compensate for small platoons with glorious love of the Motherland and deep reserves.

Leaving it as a three vehicle platoon could in theory allow him more manoeuvre elements for the same level of manpower to four-vehicle platoon-based formations.

Plausible enough. That's why I ask. Is the 3 vehicle decision somewhat arbitrary on his part, or part of a larger doctrine? Three-vehicle platoons in a four-platoon company as opposed to the opposite, for example.

My design process largely consists of starting with Soviet formations/doctrine and tweaking them here and there. Hence, the 3-vehicle platoons, but with PK machine guns assigned at the squad level (in place of RPKs) instead of the Company level. Given that the I'm mostly using Soviet military doctrine, I figured it was best to stick to Soviet formations.

[Doppio Giudici]

I catch you, Dnal. Part of the Russian doctrine strikes me as a reaction to the historic unreliability they've (their higher command) has had with their junior officers and especially their NCOs. Putting fewer eggs in each basket, eh?
But maybe Putin has reformed all of that. I wouldn't know. The closest to Russian soldiers I've ever gotten was training with Georgian soldiers, and nothing they said about Russians was positive.

Each country in NATO has some plan or thing they cling to when they plan their weapons or tactics, Russian seems to cling to numbers and use of force. I'm not sure.

[Gallia-]

Any problems with this Mechanized Infantry Platoon?

My main concern is about the location of the upper-ranking Sergeants (i.e., one Sgt. 1st Class in the first vehicle's dismounts, and two Staff Sergeants as commanders in the other two vehicles), but feel free to comment on the equipment, fireteam structure, ranks, etc.

(Image)

1st Squad
Vehicle Team:
- 2nd Lieutenant (Vehicle Commander, Platoon Commander)
- Specialist (Gunner)
- Specialist (Driver-Mechanic)

Anti-Personnel Team:
- Sgt. 1st Class (Platoon Commander's Assistant)
- Sergeant (Rifleman, Squad Leader)
- Corporal (Rifleman, Marksman's Spotter)
- Specialist (Marksman)

Anti-Tank Team:
- Corporal (Team Leader)
- Specialist (AT grenadier)
- Pvt. 1st Class (Rifleman, carries 3 AT rounds)

2nd and 3rd Squads:
Vehicle Team:
- Staff Sergeant (Vehicle Commander)
- Specialist (Gunner)
- Specialist (Driver-Mechanic)

Anti-Personnel Team:
- Sergeant (Rifleman, Squad Leader)
- Corporal (Rifleman, Team Leader)
- Pvt. 1st Class (Rifleman, carries MG ammo)
- Specialist (Machine-gunner)

Anti-Tank Team:
- Corporal (Rifleman, Team Leader)
- Specialist (AT Grenadier)
- Pvt. 1st Class (Rifleman, carries 3 AT rounds)

Looks pretty good. Maybe a slightly small platoon boots-on-the-ground-wise, but things fit. If you're basing it on USian ranks, it seems matching from what I know. And in BMPs to boot.

Edit: In fact, thought about adding a fourth vehicle and squad?

Yes.

Heh, alright.

I doubt he's basing it on Mexico.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

I catch you, Dnal. Part of the Russian doctrine strikes me as a reaction to the historic unreliability they've (their higher command) has had with their junior officers and especially their NCOs. Putting fewer eggs in each basket, eh?
But maybe Putin has reformed all of that. I wouldn't know. The closest to Russian soldiers I've ever gotten was training with Georgian soldiers, and nothing they said about Russians was positive.

Maybe I'm getting the wrong impression but there are quite a couple of videos that show Russian soldiers being quite undisciplined and plain stupid, such as firing from the hip and other such antics you'd expect from the rebel forces of a generic African country but not from what Russia pretends to be, then again I might be mistaking Georgians for Russians.

[Immoren]

Even thought in last incarnation with armoured infantry I went to the "squad leader plus two fire teams" there's something compelling for me in going (back) for squad being smallest unit of "independent" manouver in armoured infantry and squad would basically be that "squad lead+three fire and manovre pairs". Two pairs operating either RPG or RCL and one MG pair.