NS infantry discussion thread. Mark II

[Kouralia]

I'd like to know more about the UTS-15, particularly whether or not it would be suited for military use in an MT or PMT setting.
(Image)
It seems good on paper: relatively high capacity, dual tubes, pump action to allow for cycling of even lower-powered ammunition, and a compact bullpup configuration, but there are probably some disadvantages and downsides I've missed.

Too hipster. Use KSG.

Too mainstream, use SWATriplex.

[Coltarin]

I'd like to know more about the UTS-15, particularly whether or not it would be suited for military use in an MT or PMT setting.
(Image)
It seems good on paper: relatively high capacity, dual tubes, pump action to allow for cycling of even lower-powered ammunition, and a compact bullpup configuration, but there are probably some disadvantages and downsides I've missed.

I know that it's really easy to break.

[Bezombia]

Too hipster. Use KSG.

Too mainstream, use SWATriplex.

Still too mainstream. Use LMG11 chambered in caseless buckshot.

[Kommeria]

I'd like to know more about the UTS-15, particularly whether or not it would be suited for military use in an MT or PMT setting.
(Image)
It seems good on paper: relatively high capacity, dual tubes, pump action to allow for cycling of even lower-powered ammunition, and a compact bullpup configuration, but there are probably some disadvantages and downsides I've missed.

Didn't FPSRussia break two or three of those?

[Sevvania]

It just looks huge and bulky and it's probably heavy.
Especially for combat use, you'd want a much smaller and lighter shotgun, hence the existence of underslung weapons.

Wikipedia said it weighed 6.9 lbs, which surprised me a bit considering that it does look like it would be rather heavy. There are underslung shotguns, but I was under the impression that they're generally not intended for shotgunning people so much as they are for breaching and whatnot.

[Bezombia]

It just looks huge and bulky and it's probably heavy.
Especially for combat use, you'd want a much smaller and lighter shotgun, hence the existence of underslung weapons.

Wikipedia said it weighed 6.9 lbs, which surprised me a bit considering that it does look like it would be rather heavy. There are underslung shotguns, but I was under the impression that they're generally not intended for shotgunning people so much as they are for breaching and whatnot.

That's 6.9 unloaded. Factor in that you know are carrying around twice as much ammunition in your weapon as your typical 870.

[Aqizithiuda]

Nope.

Awesome work.

Would you be willing to squeeze the .280 British 1Z and Second Optimum cartridges in there along with 7.62x54mmR?
If you can find sufficient information on them, I'd also love to see 6mm Unified.

On the trajectory table though, what's with 7.88x62mm? Its trajectory randomly changes at 800m.

I'd ask you to also add my 5.45x45mm cartridge, but I don't expect its performance to differ significantly from 5.56 - a minor drop in cartridge weight, minor increase in ME and I've no idea of pressures.

I'll try to add all those.

And I have no idea why the 7.88x62mm does that.

Projectile (modified for more accurate results)
Cartridge
Internal Ballistics
External Ballistics

Weight per cartridge = 21.32g
Cartridges per kilogram = 46
Recoil Energy (9.26lb rifle)= 11.9 ft/lbs
Recoil Velocity (9.26lb rifle) = 9.1 ft/s
kj/kg @ 500 metres = 71.060
kj/kg @ 1000 metres = 29.384
Krupp's Tank Formula: 7.466 @ 500 metres, 3.85mm @ 1000 metres.

---

And I'm done for the day. Any more cartridges will be done some time next week, and I'll work on integrating the cartridges I've just done into the spreadsheet before I do any more cartridges.

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
dat 500m kJ/kg

Niiiiiiiiiiiirv
What the fuck have you done?

I even checked it with a barrel life calculator I have. Barrel life is about the same as the 5.56 NATO, despite the ludicrous pressure.

[Sevvania]

Wikipedia said it weighed 6.9 lbs, which surprised me a bit considering that it does look like it would be rather heavy. There are underslung shotguns, but I was under the impression that they're generally not intended for shotgunning people so much as they are for breaching and whatnot.

That's 6.9 unloaded. Factor in that you know are carrying around twice as much ammunition in your weapon as your typical 870.

True, but you also have the ability to have twice as much ammunition as your typical 870, so I figured that would be worth the added weight of the extra shells.

[Imperializt Russia]

That's 6.9 unloaded. Factor in that you know are carrying around twice as much ammunition in your weapon as your typical 870.

True, but you also have the ability to have twice as much ammunition as your typical 870, so I figured that would be worth the added weight of the shells.

If you're in a situation where you need 14+1 shotgun shells you're probably dead.

According to the Donovan-hosted study on equipment loads in the US Army, a shotgun is carried as a situation-dependent component of a team or squad leader's heavier load options. A separate weapon takes up space and weight. While the Masterkey (and any similar developments that may exist) adds a lot of weight to a weapon, it reduces the carried weight and not being a separate weapon is advantageous in its main role, which will be blowing off hinges.

[Bezombia]

Caseless DMR wip



Fires the 6.8x70 caseless cartridge originally (ICly) developed for the failed XM64 rifle
Hughes mechanism

sights PCAP
grip PCAP
stock PCAP
pcaps everywhere

Am I doing this right because it looks good to me so far

[Sevvania]

True, but you also have the ability to have twice as much ammunition as your typical 870, so I figured that would be worth the added weight of the shells.

If you're in a situation where you need 14+1 shotgun shells you're probably dead.

According to the Donovan-hosted study on equipment loads in the US Army, a shotgun is carried as a situation-dependent component of a team or squad leader's heavier load options. A separate weapon takes up space and weight. While the Masterkey (and any similar developments that may exist) adds a lot of weight to a weapon, it reduces the carried weight and not being a separate weapon is advantageous in its main role, which will be blowing off hinges.

I see. To be honest, I was considering it for a PMT scenario where it might see use aboard spacecraft, but since it was previously mentioned that they're relatively fragile weapons, I may look into something along the lines of the KSG.

[Spreewerke]

Caseless DMR wip

(Image)

Fires the 6.8x70 caseless cartridge originally (ICly) developed for the failed XM64 rifle
Hughes mechanism

sights PCAP
grip PCAP
stock PCAP
pcaps everywhere

Am I doing this right because it looks good to me so far

PCAP grips are such a... pointless endeavor. A grip nut and screw would be easier to produce. Since it wouldn't change what grips go on what rifle (build of receiver, trigger guard, etc., etc.), the regular grip screw and not would accomplish the exact same function. You can put a PCAP on an AK and a PCAP on an AR, but you still wouldn't be able to use the grips interchangeably.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
dat 500m kJ/kg

Niiiiiiiiiiiirv
What the fuck have you done?

I even checked it with a barrel life calculator I have. Barrel life is about the same as the 5.56 NATO, despite the ludicrous pressure.

One round to rule them all.

[Arkandros]

If you're in a situation where you need 14+1 shotgun shells you're probably dead.

According to the Donovan-hosted study on equipment loads in the US Army, a shotgun is carried as a situation-dependent component of a team or squad leader's heavier load options. A separate weapon takes up space and weight. While the Masterkey (and any similar developments that may exist) adds a lot of weight to a weapon, it reduces the carried weight and not being a separate weapon is advantageous in its main role, which will be blowing off hinges.

I see. To be honest, I was considering it for a PMT scenario where it might see use aboard spacecraft, but since it was previously mentioned that they're relatively fragile weapons, I may look into something along the lines of the KSG.

If you're going FT (which is what spaceships are, in my opinion) you might as well make laser/plasma weapons. If you are dead-set on PMT, a Turkish company designed a AR clone in .410 and called it the (A)T-14, doing something similar to the Saiga/AK. You could just do an adaptation with your main rifle. Alternatively, the Pancor Jackhammer is a futuristic looking weapon you could just edit the stats on.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Aqiz does that calculator have US 869 powder? Or N165?

[Black Hand]

Caseless DMR wip

(Image)

Fires the 6.8x70 caseless cartridge originally (ICly) developed for the failed XM64 rifle
Hughes mechanism

sights PCAP
grip PCAP
stock PCAP
pcaps everywhere

Am I doing this right because it looks good to me so far

PCAP grips are such a... pointless endeavor. A grip nut and screw would be easier to produce. Since it wouldn't change what grips go on what rifle (build of receiver, trigger guard, etc., etc.), the regular grip screw and not would accomplish the exact same function. You can put a PCAP on an AK and a PCAP on an AR, but you still wouldn't be able to use the grips interchangeably.

when he brought this up I made the same point a grip isn't an interchangeable part typically. Its usually unique to the weapons family An AK folding stock can't be put on an AR and an an AR stock on an AK (Okay the second yes but the adapter that's required is essentially breaking the rule. Also how many types of grips do you need? I see basic ergonomic left ergonomic right nothing quick change really

[Spreewerke]

PCAP grips are such a... pointless endeavor. A grip nut and screw would be easier to produce. Since it wouldn't change what grips go on what rifle (build of receiver, trigger guard, etc., etc.), the regular grip screw and not would accomplish the exact same function. You can put a PCAP on an AK and a PCAP on an AR, but you still wouldn't be able to use the grips interchangeably.

when he brought this up I made the same point a grip isn't an interchangeable part typically. Its usually unique to the weapons family An AK folding stock can't be put on an AR and an an AR stock on an AK (Okay the second yes but the adapter that's required is essentially breaking the rule. Also how many types of grips do you need? I see basic ergonomic left ergonomic right nothing quick change really

AK grips can be found on plenty of other ComBloc firearms, but here's the deal: a PCAP isn't going to make a difference if it already fits and something else wouldn't work. You just, you know, install it like normal. Ditto for the AR-15 and, say, the M82A1. Yeah, they share grips, but what advantage does a PCAP offer over the standard installation method?

[Bezombia]

Couldn't you put an adapter on the AR-style of weapons to have a small PCAP that you could then mount the grips on?

[Imperializt Russia]

Couldn't you put an adapter on the AR-style of weapons to have a small PCAP that you could then mount the grips on?

Not in the military because that would be completely pointless and I'd like to believe that civilian shooters wouldn't either, but Krebbs Customs exists and is popular.

[Aqizithiuda]

Aqiz does that calculator have US 869 powder? Or N165?

Not to my knowledge. QuickLoad probably does, and it would give more accurate results to. Unfortunately, I don't have it.

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

Hey,

Does anyone have an idea what the case capacity on the 7.92mm Kurz is? Googling so far ha suggested something to the effect of 2.2g, which doesn't feel quite legit considering 7.62x39mm is only 2.3g.

[Spreewerke]

Couldn't you put an adapter on the AR-style of weapons to have a small PCAP that you could then mount the grips on?

Couldn't you just, you know, screw an AR-style grip onto a receiver that already accepts AR-style grips? You're creating an expensive, impractical, and completely useless middleman.

[Bezombia]

Hey,

Does anyone have an idea what the case capacity on the 7.92mm Kurz is? Googling so far ha suggested something to the effect of 2.2g, which doesn't feel quite legit considering 7.62x39mm is only 2.3g.

Consider that it's wider but shorter, 0.1g less doesn't seem that far off

[Imperializt Russia]

Hey,

Does anyone have an idea what the case capacity on the 7.92mm Kurz is? Googling so far ha suggested something to the effect of 2.2g, which doesn't feel quite legit considering 7.62x39mm is only 2.3g.

Well, 7.92 Kurz was 11.9mm at the base and 11.2mm at the shoulder, while 7.62x39 is 11.35mm at the base and 10mm at the shoulder.
7.92 Kurz is also a smaller bullet, which would maximise the internal volume.

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

Consider that it's wider but shorter, 0.1g less doesn't seem that far off

It's only about half a millimeter shorter, and a rather large six millimeters shorter.