NS infantry discussion thread. Mark II

[Fordorsia]

So I guess you have never seen the Chinese army then?

There are women in China?

There are no Dwarf Chinese women. Chinese people just spring out of holes in the ground.

[Purpelia]

See if you can find anything on the Vz.58.

Thanks for the tip. I tried looking it up and found some drawings and even descriptions. But so far they have not really been helpful. I can understand the semi auto part (trigger is pulled, gun fires) just fine. But how the hell it switches into full auto or cocks/fires on full auto eludes me.

I'll dig deeper.

[Imperializt Russia]

Well, it is Peru.

It was in Libya.

Peruvian Air Force in Libya, maybe.

[Bratislavskaya]

Could SP-4-ish captive piston system be usable in rifle cartridges? I think it would be interesting to have a silent bolt-action carbine for stealthily eliminating sentries and such.

Look no further than the De-Lisle Carbine

[Purpelia]

By god I think I've got it!

[Puzikas]

We talking suppressors?



I leik supressors

[Purpelia]

Speaking of getting it I need you guys to evaluate the operating system I designed for my semi-auto only design.
Flash

Basically it's a simple three piece system consisting of a front sear, trigger and a connecting rod. The front sear consists of two subcomponents, the metal arch which connects to the trigger and the cocking piece. These are part of a single machined assembly, but are considered separate. The connecting rod is hinged on the trigger and can turn actuating and disengaging from the front sear arch in a procedure identical to the one described in this video. The cocking piece has a sloped top surface, similar to the one used for the connecting piece in that video. As the trigger is pressed the cocking piece arches backward until the slope becomes horizontally aligned at which point there is nothing pushing on the sear any more and it can fire.

So, do you think it works?

PS. Yes, I know about the visual bug where the trigger assembly seems to skip down when the bolt is recoiling. I'll fix that later. Ignore it for now.

[Black Hand]

We talking suppressors?

(Image)

I leik supressors

Strange question. I know its still lulzy stupid but if I was going to issue an AN-94 in 9x39 and made it integrally suppressed. Would it be quieter or louder than the AK-9 and AS Val? Basically I'm asking if the action is quieter than that of an AK
Edit: what the hell did they do that gave the AS Val a 900 RPM? AKM is 600

[Puzikas]

We talking suppressors?

(Image)

I leik supressors

Strange question. I know its still lulzy stupid but if I was going to issue an AN-94 in 9x39 and made it integrally suppressed. Would it be quieter or louder than the AK-9 and AS Val? Basically I'm asking if the action is quieter than that of an AK

Louder

[Bezombia]

We talking suppressors?

(Image)

I leik supressors

Strange question. I know its still lulzy stupid but if I was going to issue an AN-94 in 9x39 and made it integrally suppressed. Would it be quieter or louder than the AK-9 and AS Val? Basically I'm asking if the action is quieter than that of an AK
Edit: what the hell did they do that gave the AS Val a 900 RPM? AKM is 600

AKM has a rof reducer.

[Mozria]

Could SP-4-ish captive piston system be usable in rifle cartridges? I think it would be interesting to have a silent bolt-action carbine for stealthily eliminating sentries and such.

Look no further than the De-Lisle Carbine

I'm not talking about suppressed rifles, I am talking about silent cartridges. Suppressors are generally bulky and heavy, and they are not practical on compact weapons like the one that I am envisioning. However, captive-piston cartridges are another story. They give the capability for completely silent firing other than mechanical noises (trigger disengagement, engagement, firing pin strikes, bolt operation, et cetera) given that they are loaded to a subsonic velocity. This would be perfect for the role that I am trying to fill, which is of a very light and compact near-silent carbine chambered in an intermediate cartridge for killing covertly. This weapon would be primarily used by reconnaissance teams, SOF, shpies and other sneaky people.

[Arkandros]

Strange question. I know its still lulzy stupid but if I was going to issue an AN-94 in 9x39 and made it integrally suppressed. Would it be quieter or louder than the AK-9 and AS Val? Basically I'm asking if the action is quieter than that of an AK
Edit: what the hell did they do that gave the AS Val a 900 RPM? AKM is 600

AKM has a rof reducer.

Why would you put a integrated suppressor on a (general issue?) assault rifle? Wouldn't it disintegrate rapidly due to the volume of fire? Also, Don't suppressors reduce range/accuracy?

[Puzikas]

Look no further than the De-Lisle Carbine

I'm not talking about suppressed rifles, I am talking about silent cartridges. Suppressors are generally bulky and heavy, and they are not practical on compact weapons like the one that I am envisioning. However, captive-piston cartridges are another story. They give the capability for completely silent firing other than mechanical noises (trigger disengagement, engagement, firing pin strikes, bolt operation, et cetera) given that they are loaded to a subsonic velocity. This would be perfect for the role that I am trying to fill, which is of a very light and compact near-silent carbine chambered in an intermediate cartridge for killing covertly. This weapon would be primarily used by reconnaissance teams, SOF, shpies and other sneaky people.

Piston operated cartridges were very unsuccessful outside of a very small number of roles for good reason. Its much easier to make cold loaded ammunition and suppress a rifle than it is to make a piston cartridge rifle.

If you need silent work and compactness, make a take down weapon with an integral suppressor. The VSS, for example, breaks down into a briefcase that is entirely inconspicuous (the designer of the briefcase actually makes briefcases) and is small enough to be generally nothing special.

Why would you put a integrated suppressor on a (general issue?) assault rifle? Wouldn't it disintegrate rapidly due to the volume of fire? Also, Don't suppressors reduce range/accuracy?

They might wear out.

No, suppressors do not reduce range and accuracy.

[Arkandros]

I'm not talking about suppressed rifles, I am talking about silent cartridges. Suppressors are generally bulky and heavy, and they are not practical on compact weapons like the one that I am envisioning. However, captive-piston cartridges are another story. They give the capability for completely silent firing other than mechanical noises (trigger disengagement, engagement, firing pin strikes, bolt operation, et cetera) given that they are loaded to a subsonic velocity. This would be perfect for the role that I am trying to fill, which is of a very light and compact near-silent carbine chambered in an intermediate cartridge for killing covertly. This weapon would be primarily used by reconnaissance teams, SOF, shpies and other sneaky people.

Piston operated cartridges were very unsuccessful outside of a very small number of roles for good reason. Its much easier to make cold loaded ammunition and suppress a rifle than it is to make a piston cartridge rifle.

If you need silent work and compactness, make a take down weapon with an integral suppressor. The VSS, for example, breaks down into a briefcase that is entirely inconspicuous (the designer of the briefcase actually makes briefcases) and is small enough to be generally nothing special.

Why would you put a integrated suppressor on a (general issue?) assault rifle? Wouldn't it disintegrate rapidly due to the volume of fire? Also, Don't suppressors reduce range/accuracy?

They might wear out.

No, suppressors do not reduce range and accuracy.

Huh, could have sworn the dispersal of the gas would reduce range. Anyway, during WWII some soldiers would saw down rifles to make them more compact. Just saw down an old school bolt action rifle and mount a suppressor.

[Imperializt Russia]

The gas disperses wildly at the muzzle anyway.
The pressure inside the barrel is suddenly orders of magnitude greater than outside and when the bullet leaves the muzzle, that pressure is equalised with an expanding gas cloud.

[Spreewerke]

'Nother overview. This time of the Daewoo K5/DP-51. Totally IDT related because I use them ICly, but reinforced, all-steel, and in 7.62x25mm.

Link: http://imgur.com/a/RPsxL

[Black Hand]

Strange question. I know its still lulzy stupid but if I was going to issue an AN-94 in 9x39 and made it integrally suppressed. Would it be quieter or louder than the AK-9 and AS Val? Basically I'm asking if the action is quieter than that of an AK
Edit: what the hell did they do that gave the AS Val a 900 RPM? AKM is 600

AKM has a rof reducer.

I know it does. I've seen it I've actually held it. I mentioned in my first serious MMW post. (I tried to out AK spree that was amusing In retrospect quite the learning experience at the time). The AK-lll didn't have one and.it was about 650-700 IIRC

[Bezombia]

AKM has a rof reducer.

I know it does. I've seen it I've actually held it. I mentioned in my first serious MMW post. (I tried to out AK spree that was amusing In retrospect quite the learning experience at the time). The AK-lll didn't have one and.it was about 650-700 IIRC

Well for one thing, it's striker fired.
More realistically, it probably vents more gas into the operating system.

[Puzikas]

the striker makes little difference.

[Aqizithiuda]

Does anyone remember that "Case Against a GPC" blog post Arch linked earlier on? Well, I decided to have a look and do my own analysis of it.

I used 16" barrels as a good compromise between length and compactness, and did a baseline run for the 7.62 NATO and 5.56 NATO:

5.56mm Internal Ballistics
5.56mm Exterior Ballistics

Weight per cartridge = 12.31g
Cartridges per kilogram = 81
Recoil Energy (8.8lb rifle) = 3.2 ft/lbs
Recoil Velocity (8.8lb rifle) = 4.9 ft/s
kj/kg @ 500 metres = 32.61
kj/kg @ 1000 metres = 11.591

7.62mm Internal Ballistics
7.62mm External Ballistics

Weight per cartridge = 25.4g
Cartridges per kilogram = 39
Recoil Energy (10lb rifle) = 11.8 ft/lbs
Recoil Velocity (10lb rifle) = 8.7 ft/s
kj/kg @ 500 metres = 41.17
kj/kg @ 1000 metres = 15.955


So, to make a relatively short, lightweight GPC I used the 7.62x39mm as a starting point and modified it to accept a projectile form the .276 Pedersen.

Cartridge (note: because I buggered up, the should diameter should be 10.81mm, not 10.91mm)
Projectile
7mm Internal Ballistics (MV with new case = 719 m/s)
7mm External Ballistics

Weight per cartridge = 16.7g
Cartridges per kilogram = 59
Recoil Energy = 6.7 ft/lbs
Recoil Velocity = 7 ft/s
kj/kg @ 500 metres = 47.152
kj/kg @ 1000 metres = 20.608

Make of that what you will.

[Bezombia]

Redoeing my M2013 loading on the grounds of I never actually did it in the first place.

http://www.geoffrey-kolbe.com/cgi-bin/d ... nsity=10.4

Am I doing this right? Looks sound to me but there are people in this thread more well versed in this than I am.

Going for 100gr bullet, everything else is generally up for variation if required

[Black Hand]

the striker makes little difference.

Though how much more difficult is it to manufacture an AS VAL striker vs a normal AKM hammer and firing pin assembly? One less moving part is how I'm thinking of it. I want to see how many parts I can not include and or simplify in an AKM and then make a 7.62X55 version of it for issunace to state-backed geurilla fighters

[Puzikas]

There's nothing wrong with the AKs internal simplicity as it stands now. Different manufacturing for different reasons in the rifles purposes is why the VSS family is different. Parts as made on AK machines however can also be used in the construction of the VAL.

[Aqizithiuda]

Redoeing my M2013 loading on the grounds of I never actually did it in the first place.

http://www.geoffrey-kolbe.com/cgi-bin/d ... nsity=10.4

Am I doing this right? Looks sound to me but there are people in this thread more well versed in this than I am.

Going for 100gr bullet, everything else is generally up for variation if required

Fixed.

I've given it a thin steel jacket just to reduce weight.

[Black Hand]

There's nothing wrong with the AKs internal simplicity as it stands now. Different manufacturing for different reasons in the rifles purposes is why the VSS family is different. Parts as made on AK machines however can also be used in the construction of the VAL.

That I'm sure of. I was just thinking of what the bare.minimum was for an AK rifle in terms if parts. This would have a cut down fire selector (safe or huehuehue) it would have only one gas setting. Most basic of wire stocks and no folding mechanism. No Upper hanguard. Anything else I can remove?