NS infantry discussion thread. Mark II

by **Spreewerke** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:27 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:
Spreewerke wrote:'Nother overview. This time of the Daewoo K5/DP-51. Totally IDT related because I use them ICly, but reinforced, all-steel, and in 7.62x25mm.

Link: http://imgur.com/a/RPsxL

That's a very pretty handgun.

This one's prettier.

EDIT TO ADD: Posted just in time for top-paging, apparently.

by **Imperializt Russia** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:30 am

Spreewerke wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:That's a very pretty handgun.

This one's prettier.

EDIT TO ADD: Posted just in time for top-paging, apparently.

"Apparently", he says.

I was actually disappointed for an instant, because I was expecting something in the vein of the K1. Then I saw what it was and suddenly wasn't disappointed.

by **Coltarin** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:18 am

So I gave mp space pistol a fire selector/safety of sorts and added two common types of ammo HE and AP.
repost for art whoring

by **Imperializt Russia** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:19 am

HEISAP hollowpoint, do it.

by **Coltarin** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:21 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:HEISAP hollowpoint, do it.

I know that means high explosive-incendiary-armor piercing, but what is the 's' for?

by **Imperializt Russia** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:24 am

Coltarin wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:HEISAP hollowpoint, do it.

I know that means high explosive-incendiary-armor piercing, but what is the 's' for?

"Semi"-armour-piercing.

Also, I misremembered, and the HEISAP isn't the hollowpoint cartridge in Halo.
It's also listed as SAPHE instead, according to Halo wiki.

by **Coltarin** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:26 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:
Coltarin wrote:I know that means high explosive-incendiary-armor piercing, but what is the 's' for?

"Semi"-armour-piercing.

Also, I misremembered, and the HEISAP isn't the hollowpoint cartridge in Halo.
It's also listed as SAPHE instead, according to Halo wiki.

But if I'm not blowing holes in people, whats the point?

by **Black Hand** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:58 am

I suppose that makes sense for the .22s (I'd quote but phone freaks out after more than 1 ). @san well that doesn't surprise me muzzle awareness is probably the single most important part of shooting.
Also cadet=\= infantry training iirc please explain British cadets more kour I'm curious. My understanding is its like junior rotc sort of
@spree that makes a lot of sense for the higher powered rifles but for say 5.56 why bother the recoil isn't at all fierce. ? Except for the cost factor of training airmen (which is mainly familrization training I imagine) I figure it would be worth while to use blanks or basic ball instead (if its cheap enough to train infantrymen by firing Thousands of rounds off at the NTC them why bother with.22s for the couple hundred of familarization

by **New Tsavon** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:12 pm

Image, too large for NS.

Name: M.1905 Standarten Gewehr
Origin: Der Königreich von Neue Tsavon
Designer: Maximilian Schauer
Manufacturer: Tsavonian Bundesarsenal
Produced: 1905- Present
In service: 1905 - Present
Cost: $200
Weight: 4.53kg
Length: 1,182mm
Barrel length: 690mm
Cartridge: 6.5x60mm
Action: Straight-pull bolt
Rate of fire: As fast as the bolt can cycle
Effective range: 600 meters
Maximum range: 2,000 meters
Feed system: 20-round box magazine
Sights: Adjustable rear sight, front post

by **Premislyd** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:38 pm

San-Silvacian wrote:
Premislyd wrote:(Image)

Pistol cartridge

(Image)

With a pistol to go with it.

Ballester Molina?

Ballester mixed with some Hi-Power.

by **San-Silvacian** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:36 pm

Premislyd wrote:
San-Silvacian wrote:
Ballester Molina?

Ballester mixed with some Hi-Power.

This is gr8st.

by **Aqizithiuda** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:44 pm

Continuing what I started yesterday:

6.35x45mm ANTO Cartridge
Projectile
Internal Ballistics
External Ballistics

Weight per cartridge = 17.217g
Cartridges per kilogram = 58
Recoil Energy (8.8lb rifle)= 6.1 ft/lbs
Recoil Velocity (8.8lb rifle) = 6.7 ft/s
kj/kg @ 500 metres = 44.764
kj/kg @ 1000 metres = 15.544
Krupp's Tank Formula: 5.011mm @ 500 metres, 2.267mm @ 1000 metres.

9x70mm Cartridge
Projectile (9SN)
Projectile (Ball)
Internal Ballistics (9SN)
Internal Ballistics (Ball)
External Ballistics (9SN)
External Ballistics (Ball)

Weight per cartridge (9SN) = 33.40g
Cartridges per kilogram (9SN) = 30
Weight per cartridge (Ball) = 33.549g
Cartridges per kilogram (Ball) = 29
Recoil Energy (9SN, 15lb rifle) = 17.3 ft/lbs
Recoil Velocity (9SN, 15lb rifle) = 8.6 ft/s
Recoil Energy (Ball, 15lb rifle) = 17.0 ft/lbs
Recoil Velocity (Ball, 15lb rifle) = 8.5 ft/s
kj/kg @ 500 metres (9SN) = 63.396
kj/kg @ 1000 metres (9SN)= 24.015
kj/kg @ 500 metres (Ball) = 58.758
kj/kg @ 1000 metres (Ball)= 22.814
Krupp's Tank Formula (9SN): 6.898mm @ 500 metres, 3.331mm @ 1000 metres.
Krupp's Tank Formula (Ball): 6.862mm @ 500 metres, 3.375mm @ 1000 metres.

7.62x39mm KC Projectile
Internal Ballistics
External Ballistics

Weight per cartridge = 16.4g
Cartridges per kilogram = 61
Recoil Energy (8.8lb rifle)= 5.9 ft/lbs
Recoil Velocity (8.8lb rifle) = 6.5 ft/s
kj/kg @ 500 metres = 30.353
kj/kg @ 1000 metres = 15.524
Krupp's Tank Formula: 2.871mm @ 500 metres, 1.736mm @ 1000 metres.

Anyone want their cartridges analysed?

by **Mozria** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:07 pm

Aqizithiuda wrote:
[spoiler=Previous Cartridge Analysis]5.56mm Internal Ballistics
5.56mm Exterior Ballistics

Weight per cartridge = 12.31g
Cartridges per kilogram = 81
Recoil Energy (8.8lb rifle) = 3.2 ft/lbs
Recoil Velocity (8.8lb rifle) = 4.9 ft/s
kj/kg @ 500 metres = 32.61
kj/kg @ 1000 metres = 11.591

7.62mm Internal Ballistics
7.62mm External Ballistics

Weight per cartridge = 25.4g
Cartridges per kilogram = 39
Recoil Energy (10lb rifle) = 11.8 ft/lbs
Recoil Velocity (10lb rifle) = 8.7 ft/s
kj/kg @ 500 metres = 41.17
kj/kg @ 1000 metres = 15.955

7x39mm Cartridge (note: because I buggered up, the should diameter should be 10.81mm, not 10.91mm)
Projectile
7mm Internal Ballistics (MV with new case = 719 m/s)
7mm External Ballistics

Weight per cartridge = 16.7g
Cartridges per kilogram = 59
Recoil Energy = 6.7 ft/lbs
Recoil Velocity = 7 ft/s
kj/kg @ 500 metres = 47.152
kj/kg @ 1000 metres = 20.608

6x43mm Cartridge
Projectile
Internal Ballistics
External Ballistics

Weight per cartridge = 15.55g
Cartridges per kilogram = 64
Recoil Energy (8.8lb rifle) = 4.9 ft/lbs
Recoil Velocity (8.8lb rifle) = 6 ft/s
kj/kg @ 500 metres = 47.571
kj/kg @ 1000 metres = 15.948

Also, Krupp's Tank Formula results for the rounds listed so far:

5.56x45mm = 3.632mm @ 500 metres, 1.671mm @ 100 metres
6x43mm = 5.23mm @ 500 metres, 2.3mm @ 1000 metres.
7x39mm = 4.554mm @ 500 metres, 2.448mm @ 1000 metres
7.62x51mm = 5.096mm @ 500 metres, 2.479mm @ 1000 metres

Continuing what I started yesterday:

6.35x45mm ANTO Cartridge
Projectile
Internal Ballistics
External Ballistics

Weight per cartridge = 17.217g
Cartridges per kilogram = 58
Recoil Energy (8.8lb rifle)= 6.1 ft/lbs
Recoil Velocity (8.8lb rifle) = 6.7 ft/s
kj/kg @ 500 metres = 44.764
kj/kg @ 1000 metres = 15.544
Krupp's Tank Formula: 5.011mm @ 500 metres, 2.267mm @ 1000 metres.

9x70mm Cartridge
Projectile (9SN)
Projectile (Ball)
Internal Ballistics (9SN)
Internal Ballistics (Ball)
External Ballistics (9SN)
External Ballistics (Ball)

Weight per cartridge (9SN) = 33.40g
Cartridges per kilogram (9SN) = 30
Weight per cartridge (Ball) = 33.549g
Cartridges per kilogram (Ball) = 29
Recoil Energy (9SN, 15lb rifle) = 17.3 ft/lbs
Recoil Velocity (9SN, 15lb rifle) = 8.6 ft/s
Recoil Energy (Ball, 15lb rifle) = 17.0 ft/lbs
Recoil Velocity (Ball, 15lb rifle) = 8.5 ft/s
kj/kg @ 500 metres (9SN) = 63.396
kj/kg @ 1000 metres (9SN)= 24.015
kj/kg @ 500 metres (Ball) = 58.758
kj/kg @ 1000 metres (Ball)= 22.814
Krupp's Tank Formula (9SN): 6.898mm @ 500 metres, 3.331mm @ 1000 metres.
Krupp's Tank Formula (Ball): 6.862mm @ 500 metres, 3.375mm @ 1000 metres.

7.62x39mm KC Projectile
Internal Ballistics
External Ballistics

Weight per cartridge = 16.4g
Cartridges per kilogram = 61
Recoil Energy (8.8lb rifle)= 5.9 ft/lbs
Recoil Velocity (8.8lb rifle) = 6.5 ft/s
kj/kg @ 500 metres = 30.353
kj/kg @ 1000 metres = 15.524
Krupp's Tank Formula: 2.871mm @ 500 metres, 1.736mm @ 1000 metres.

Anyone want their cartridges analysed?

Absolutely. Would you rather do my 10.42 x 60 mm cartridge or my newer 8 x 56 62 mm one? I have comprehensive stats for both.

NOTE: Neither of these are cartridges used in my modern infantry units. The first is for MMGs past to present, and the second is a cartridge that was used in my standard-issue bolt-action rifles from 1923 to 1941.

Edit: Ah, I fail at snipping.

by **Aqizithiuda** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:10 pm

Mozria wrote:
Aqizithiuda wrote:
[spoiler=Previous Cartridge Analysis]5.56mm Internal Ballistics
5.56mm Exterior Ballistics

Weight per cartridge = 12.31g
Cartridges per kilogram = 81
Recoil Energy (8.8lb rifle) = 3.2 ft/lbs
Recoil Velocity (8.8lb rifle) = 4.9 ft/s
kj/kg @ 500 metres = 32.61
kj/kg @ 1000 metres = 11.591

7.62mm Internal Ballistics
7.62mm External Ballistics

Weight per cartridge = 25.4g
Cartridges per kilogram = 39
Recoil Energy (10lb rifle) = 11.8 ft/lbs
Recoil Velocity (10lb rifle) = 8.7 ft/s
kj/kg @ 500 metres = 41.17
kj/kg @ 1000 metres = 15.955

7x39mm Cartridge (note: because I buggered up, the should diameter should be 10.81mm, not 10.91mm)
Projectile
7mm Internal Ballistics (MV with new case = 719 m/s)
7mm External Ballistics

Weight per cartridge = 16.7g
Cartridges per kilogram = 59
Recoil Energy = 6.7 ft/lbs
Recoil Velocity = 7 ft/s
kj/kg @ 500 metres = 47.152
kj/kg @ 1000 metres = 20.608

6x43mm Cartridge
Projectile
Internal Ballistics
External Ballistics

Weight per cartridge = 15.55g
Cartridges per kilogram = 64
Recoil Energy (8.8lb rifle) = 4.9 ft/lbs
Recoil Velocity (8.8lb rifle) = 6 ft/s
kj/kg @ 500 metres = 47.571
kj/kg @ 1000 metres = 15.948

Also, Krupp's Tank Formula results for the rounds listed so far:

5.56x45mm = 3.632mm @ 500 metres, 1.671mm @ 100 metres
6x43mm = 5.23mm @ 500 metres, 2.3mm @ 1000 metres.
7x39mm = 4.554mm @ 500 metres, 2.448mm @ 1000 metres
7.62x51mm = 5.096mm @ 500 metres, 2.479mm @ 1000 metres

Continuing what I started yesterday:

6.35x45mm ANTO Cartridge
Projectile
Internal Ballistics
External Ballistics

Weight per cartridge = 17.217g
Cartridges per kilogram = 58
Recoil Energy (8.8lb rifle)= 6.1 ft/lbs
Recoil Velocity (8.8lb rifle) = 6.7 ft/s
kj/kg @ 500 metres = 44.764
kj/kg @ 1000 metres = 15.544
Krupp's Tank Formula: 5.011mm @ 500 metres, 2.267mm @ 1000 metres.

9x70mm Cartridge
Projectile (9SN)
Projectile (Ball)
Internal Ballistics (9SN)
Internal Ballistics (Ball)
External Ballistics (9SN)
External Ballistics (Ball)

Weight per cartridge (9SN) = 33.40g
Cartridges per kilogram (9SN) = 30
Weight per cartridge (Ball) = 33.549g
Cartridges per kilogram (Ball) = 29
Recoil Energy (9SN, 15lb rifle) = 17.3 ft/lbs
Recoil Velocity (9SN, 15lb rifle) = 8.6 ft/s
Recoil Energy (Ball, 15lb rifle) = 17.0 ft/lbs
Recoil Velocity (Ball, 15lb rifle) = 8.5 ft/s
kj/kg @ 500 metres (9SN) = 63.396
kj/kg @ 1000 metres (9SN)= 24.015
kj/kg @ 500 metres (Ball) = 58.758
kj/kg @ 1000 metres (Ball)= 22.814
Krupp's Tank Formula (9SN): 6.898mm @ 500 metres, 3.331mm @ 1000 metres.
Krupp's Tank Formula (Ball): 6.862mm @ 500 metres, 3.375mm @ 1000 metres.

7.62x39mm KC Projectile
Internal Ballistics
External Ballistics

Weight per cartridge = 16.4g
Cartridges per kilogram = 61
Recoil Energy (8.8lb rifle)= 5.9 ft/lbs
Recoil Velocity (8.8lb rifle) = 6.5 ft/s
kj/kg @ 500 metres = 30.353
kj/kg @ 1000 metres = 15.524
Krupp's Tank Formula: 2.871mm @ 500 metres, 1.736mm @ 1000 metres.

Anyone want their cartridges analysed?[/spoiler]

Absolutely. Would you rather do my 10.42 x 60 mm cartridge or my newer 8 x 56 mm one? I have comprehensive stats for both.

NOTE: Neither of these are cartridges used in my modern infantry units. The first is for MMGs past to present, and the second is a cartridge that was used in my standard-issue bolt-action rifles from 1923 to 1941.

Either or.

I'll need links to the projectiles, weight of the rifle, all the cartridge dimensions you see in the cartridge links above and a maximum pressure.

by **Mozria** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:16 pm

Aqizithiuda wrote:
Mozria wrote:Absolutely. Would you rather do my 10.42 x 60 mm cartridge or my newer 8 x 56 62 mm one? I have comprehensive stats for both.

NOTE: Neither of these are cartridges used in my modern infantry units. The first is for MMGs past to present, and the second is a cartridge that was used in my standard-issue bolt-action rifles from 1923 to 1941.

Either or.

I'll need links to the projectiles, weight of the rifle, all the cartridge dimensions you see in the cartridge links above and a maximum pressure.

I won't waste time formatting the information I am copying from my document, as it will take forever. Here you go-

Cartridge, Caliber 7.88 mm, Schnaussen-Rimmer M.23

Case Type: Bottleneck, rimless (brass)
Bullet Diameter: 8 mm
Bullet Length: 32 mm
Seating Depth: 7.60 mm
Neck Diameter: 9.45 mm
Neck Length: 4 mm
Shoulder Diameter: 12.30 mm
Shoulder Length: 12 mm
Base Diameter: 12.60 mm
Rim Diameter: 11.40 mm
Rim thickness: 1.20 mm
Case Length: 62 mm
Cartridge Length: 86.40 mm
Case Capacity: 71.50 grains
Case Load: 60 grains
Rifling Twist: 1:350 mm
Projectile Type/Weight: Schnaussen-Rimmer M.23 (copper-jacketed ball), 195 gr.
Primer Type: Schnaussen-Rimmer M.19 Rifle
Maximum Pressure: ~41,700 CUP / 47,000 psi
Velocity at Muzzle: ~800 meters/second
Muzzle Energy: ~3,700 joules *
100 meters: ~3,500 joules *
200 meters: ~3,100 joules *
300 meters: ~2,600 joules *

* Test barrel length: 750 millimeters

Schnaussen-Rimmer M.23 Projectile

Bullet Diameter: 8 mm
Bullet Length: 32 mm
Nose Length: 18 mm
Meplat Diameter: 1 mm
Boat-Tail Length: 6 mm
Base Diameter: 6 mm
Bullet Weight: 195 grains
Construction: Copper-jacketed lead core, solid cross-section
G1 Ballistic Coefficient:
Mach 0.5: 0.47
Mach 1.0: 0.39
Mach 1.5: 0.49
Mach 2.0: 0.52
Mach 2.5: 0.54
Mach 3.0: 0.57
G7 Ballistic Coefficient:
Mach 0.5: 0.28
Mach 1.0: 0.30
Mach 1.5: 0.26
Mach 2.0: 0.26
Mach 2.5: 0,27
Mach 3.0: 0.27

by **Mozria** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:24 pm

Is anything else needed?

by **Black Hand** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:27 pm

Does Para-ordanance manufacture decent 9x19 1911s ?
They don't seem half bad when I've held them but no experience.beyond touch and a somewhat smooth action.

by **Spreewerke** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:42 pm

Black Hand wrote:Does Para-ordanance manufacture decent 9x19 1911s ?
They don't seem half bad when I've held them but no experience.beyond touch and a somewhat smooth action.

Why 9mm, exactly?

by **Aqizithiuda** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:46 pm

Mozria wrote:
Aqizithiuda wrote:
Either or.

I'll need links to the projectiles, weight of the rifle, all the cartridge dimensions you see in the cartridge links above and a maximum pressure.

I won't waste time formatting the information I am copying from my document, as it will take forever. Here you go-

Cartridge, Caliber 7.88 mm, Schnaussen-Rimmer M.23

Case Type: Bottleneck, rimless (brass)
Bullet Diameter: 8 mm
Bullet Length: 32 mm
Seating Depth: 7.60 mm
Neck Diameter: 9.45 mm
Neck Length: 4 mm
Shoulder Diameter: 12.30 mm
Shoulder Length: 12 mm
Base Diameter: 12.60 mm
Rim Diameter: 11.40 mm
Rim thickness: 1.20 mm
Case Length: 62 mm
Cartridge Length: 86.40 mm
Case Capacity: 71.50 grains
Case Load: 60 grains
Rifling Twist: 1:350 mm
Projectile Type/Weight: Schnaussen-Rimmer M.23 (copper-jacketed ball), 195 gr.
Primer Type: Schnaussen-Rimmer M.19 Rifle
Maximum Pressure: ~41,700 CUP / 47,000 psi
Velocity at Muzzle: ~800 meters/second
Muzzle Energy: ~3,700 joules *
100 meters: ~3,500 joules *
200 meters: ~3,100 joules *
300 meters: ~2,600 joules *

* Test barrel length: 750 millimeters

Schnaussen-Rimmer M.23 Projectile

Bullet Diameter: 8 mm
Bullet Length: 32 mm
Nose Length: 18 mm
Meplat Diameter: 1 mm
Boat-Tail Length: 6 mm
Base Diameter: 6 mm
Bullet Weight: 195 grains
Construction: Copper-jacketed lead core, solid cross-section
G1 Ballistic Coefficient:
Mach 0.5: 0.47
Mach 1.0: 0.39
Mach 1.5: 0.49
Mach 2.0: 0.52
Mach 2.5: 0.54
Mach 3.0: 0.57
G7 Ballistic Coefficient:
Mach 0.5: 0.28
Mach 1.0: 0.30
Mach 1.5: 0.26
Mach 2.0: 0.26
Mach 2.5: 0,27
Mach 3.0: 0.27

I redrew the projectile and case to provide accurate results.

Internal Ballistics
External Ballistics

Weight per cartridge = 28.7g
Cartridges per kilogram = 34
Recoil Energy (9.34lb rifle)= 20.2 ft/lbs
Recoil Velocity (9.34b rifle) = 11.8 ft/s
kj/kg @ 500 metres = 59.755
kj/kg @ 1000 metres = 21.195
Krupp's Tank Formula: 7.093 @ 500 metres, 3.260mm @ 1000 metres.

by **Black Hand** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:56 pm

Spreewerke wrote:
Black Hand wrote:Does Para-ordanance manufacture decent 9x19 1911s ?
They don't seem half bad when I've held them but no experience.beyond touch and a somewhat smooth action.

Why 9mm, exactly?

Because if(read: when) I'm getting a handgun it's going to be a 9mm

by **Coltarin** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:00 pm

Black Hand wrote:
Spreewerke wrote:

Why 9mm, exactly?

Because if(read: when) I'm getting a handgun it's going to be a 9mm

Not using the most holy 10mm

by **Black Hand** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:08 pm

Coltarin wrote:
Black Hand wrote:Because if(read: when) I'm getting a handgun it's going to be a 9mm

Not using the most holy 10mm

RL costs. I own a Mosin and not a VEPR for a reason. $.22 v $.40
(admittedly that's still not that bad.) but the firearm itself is also incredibly expensive for 10mm
when all else fails I'll give in and buy a glock which is what's likely to happen. (I actually like glocks....)
If I could buy your pistol I would.

by **The Archangel Conglomerate** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:13 pm

Aqizithiuda wrote:I'll need links to the projectiles, weight of the rifle, all the cartridge dimensions you see in the cartridge links above and a maximum pressure.

Would you do one of my 8mm rounds?

Le Projectile
The rifle is 3.98kg

Maximum pressure is 58kpsi

by **Aqizithiuda** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:19 pm

The Archangel Conglomerate wrote:
Aqizithiuda wrote:I'll need links to the projectiles, weight of the rifle, all the cartridge dimensions you see in the cartridge links above and a maximum pressure.

Would you do one of my 8mm rounds?

Le Projectile
The rifle is 3.98kg
Neck Diameter: 9mm
Shoulder Diameter: 11mm
Base Diameter: 11,8mm
Rim Diameter: 11,8mm
Case Length: 40mm
Overall Length: 59,69mm

Maximum pressure is 58kpsi

Barrel length?

by **The Archangel Conglomerate** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:26 pm

391mm

NS infantry discussion thread. Mark II

Who will OP the next iteration of the IDT?

Who is online