NS infantry discussion thread. Mark II

[Prekonate]

I'd check that figure if I were you. The frontal lobes aren't critical to survival.

more critical for some

[Aqizithiuda]

I'd check that figure if I were you. The frontal lobes aren't critical to survival.

This was proved in the first iteration of this thread.

I'll admit, this made me laugh.

[Tule]

Any sort of projectile entering your skull via eye socket has a very high (>90%) chance of killing you since your brain is literally right behind your eyes.

A less lethal gun is still a gun, it's just, well, less lethal obviously.

I'd check that figure if I were you. The frontal lobes aren't critical to survival.

Direct damage to the brain is usually not the cause of death in cases of penetrating head trauma..
After all, the only part of the brain you absolutely need to live is the brain stem, which is tiny and really just the upper part of the spinal cord rather than a part of the brain.

Case in point.

It's the fact that your brain uses up 15% of your cardiac output while making up only 2% of your body weight that makes it such a dangerous place to be hit.

A gunshot wound to the head will either cause you to rapidly bleed to death, or crush your brain as it accumulates between it and your skull.

[Imperializt Russia]

I'd check that figure if I were you. The frontal lobes aren't critical to survival.

They're more critical for some

Frontal lobes are personality, memory and higher reasoning.
All get shut down in a survival situation.

Plenty of cases exist of people who take frontal lobe damage and perfectly survive, with personality changes and/or memory loss.
Also, lobotomies.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

I'd check that figure if I were you. The frontal lobes aren't critical to survival.

Direct damage to the brain is usually not the cause of death in cases of penetrating head trauma..
After all, the only part of the brain you absolutely need to live is the brain stem, which is tiny and really just the upper part of the spinal cord rather than a part of the brain.

Case in point.

It's the fact that your brain uses up 15% of your cardiac output while making up only 2% of your body weight that makes it such a dangerous place to be hit.

A gunshot wound to the head will either cause you to rapidly bleed to death, or crush your brain as it accumulates between it and your skull.

I think I'd rather have died. To me losing anything vital (speech, a limb, higher cognitive function) is worse than losing my life.

[Tule]

Direct damage to the brain is usually not the cause of death in cases of penetrating head trauma..
After all, the only part of the brain you absolutely need to live is the brain stem, which is tiny and really just the upper part of the spinal cord rather than a part of the brain.

Case in point.

It's the fact that your brain uses up 15% of your cardiac output while making up only 2% of your body weight that makes it such a dangerous place to be hit.

A gunshot wound to the head will either cause you to rapidly bleed to death, or crush your brain as it accumulates between it and your skull.

I think I'd rather have died. To me losing anything vital (speech, a limb, higher cognitive function) is worse than losing my life.

Losing that much of your brain can in some instances increase your quality of life, remarkably.

[Fordorsia]

I assume Ford is making a distinction between demonstrations and riots.

I...personally agree with Ford regarding rioters and their rights. Professionally, I can't put that opinion into practice if I want to keep drawing a paycheck...and I do (even though I'm pretty sure I can get more money on unemployment but that's a whole new topic). If you're stupid enough to riot, and fight the police, you deserve what you get. Did you know that, when presented with a given use of force situation, the average citizen responds that they would have used more force than the officer involved in said situation did?

Demonstrators are fine. Its their right to protest shit in a lawful manner, more power to them.

your views don't live up to your "nation type" at all . . . but to each his own.

Well, duh. No one would need to protest in a civil rights lovefest.

I haven't really went into the topic for Fordorsia, but I'd imagine protests, while very much legal, would be uncommon. The government doesn't want it's people angry, so they do all they can to keep them happy.
Now, riots in Fordorsia aren't just rare, they're nearly non-existent. Not just because of the happy and hard-working population, but because of the fact that everyone, even would-be rioters, know the immediate consequences of such actions. As soon as a mass protest gets violent towards police, batons and rubber bullets are used en masse. If a riot starts and the general public is in danger, a single rifle round is fired into the crowd of rioters.

[Black Hand]

Why does this topic keep coming up?
Shouldn't we be discussing how your military deals with mutinous units?
in the BHDC when a unit mutinies negotiations commence however in times of war if such behavior occurs the response comes in the form of Thermobaric munitions from artillery and aircraft followed by a at least a 2:1 ratio (of original unit size not survivors) of comparable units to sweep and clear any survivors prisoners are taken rather than executed.

[Fordorsia]

Why does this topic keep coming up?
Shouldn't we be discussing how your military deals with mutinous units?
in the BHDC when a unit mutinies negotiations commence however in times of war if such behavior occurs the response comes in the form of Thermobaric munitions from artillery and aircraft followed by a at least a 2:1 ratio (of original unit size not survivors) of comparable units to sweep and clear any survivors prisoners are taken rather than executed.

I guess it's just a topic that most of us have a strong opinion on.

[United states of brazilian nations]

people, i need some help.

with the help of you guys and mathematical formulas, i was able to precisely calculate the case capacity of my 6.8x41mm USBN round. problem is, i guess either something went wrong with my calculations, or wikipedia is terribly wrong.

my cartridge is based on the 5.56mm NATO cartridge. however, it is different enough that you can't make it by reloading 5.56mm NATO brass - for example, its case diameter is about 0.5mm larger. however, it is such a small difference that i think it's still be able to be fed through STANAG magazines.

so, problem is. my calculation gave me approximately 2453 cubic millimetres, or 2.453 cubic centimeters (i'll refer to it as cm3 from now on). now, according to wikipedia, case capacity for 5.56mm NATO is 1.85 cm3. hell, that is a lot of difference. sure, my case is 0.5 mm larger in diameter, but that won't make all that difference.

take, for example, the 7.62x39mm. it has a case capacity of 2.31 cm3 - it looks much more like my round, albeit still smaller - of course, it has a 39mm case lenght as opposed to my 41mm, but that's only a 2mm difference and it has a 1.35mm larger case diameter - and we're not even taking the shoulder and neck into account.

so yeah, i assumed a 0.8mm brass tickness for the closer-to-base part of the case and a 0.4mm brass tickness for the closer-to-mouth part of the case. did i do it wrong or is wikipedia kidding me? if i screwed the calculations up (which i probably did), what should i be doing instead?

[Soviet Karelia (Ancient)]

The Independent Soviet Republic of Karelia uses an RPK styled rifle with a heavy 18 inch barrel using the 6x49mm Soviet cartridge fitted with a large muzzle compensator and 1p78 optic. It's typically furnished with a side folding wooden stock, with an AMD-63 style forgrip. An average combat load would be 6 32 round magazines and a single 45 round magazine, both constructed of either steel or semi-translucent plastic with lugs to latch onto another magazine.

Body armor is heavily based on captured examples of Soviet/Russian 6B3 vests, differing by using a more traditional style of plate and modern construction techniques. The vests in use with air assault units are made of more modern materials and feature MOLLE webbing as opposed to the use of M1956 style webgear. Depending on material used in construction, they'll be either olive-drab(hemp canvas, may often be more tan then olive) or field grey(synthetic material, short production on imported materials). Helmets are not particularly common in use in practice, but the old SSh-68 with a 'mop' cover is standard issue.

Uniforms are a fairly standard 6-pocket jacket with 4-pocket pants made, depending on weight, are either a light ripstop-type material, a heavier 2-season set with an optional liner, and a heavy winter set. Both the "autumn" and "frost" are of flatter, browner coloration of a digitized 'berezka' pattern that is standard within the armed forces. Light-weight camouflage suits are utilized over standard uniforms when needed. A fairly standard canvas belt for general use is common - most often used as a toolbelt or to carry a pistol and/or extra ammo. An all-season leather boot is issued footwear, sometimes seen with gaiters when needed.

[Rich and Corporations]

The Independent Soviet Republic of Karelia uses an RPK styled rifle with a heavy 18 inch barrel using the 6x49mm Soviet cartridge fitted with a large muzzle compensator and 1p78 optic. It's typically furnished with a side folding wooden stock, with an AMD-63 style forgrip. An average combat load would be 6 32 round magazines and a single 45 round magazine, both constructed of either steel or semi-translucent plastic with lugs to latch onto another magazine.

Body armor is heavily based on captured examples of Soviet/Russian 6B3 vests, differing by using a more traditional style of plate and modern construction techniques. The vests in use with air assault units are made of more modern materials and feature MOLLE webbing as opposed to the use of M1956 style webgear. Depending on material used in construction, they'll be either olive-drab(hemp canvas, may often be more tan then olive) or field grey(synthetic material, short production on imported materials). Helmets are not particularly common in use in practice, but the old SSh-68 with a 'mop' cover is standard issue.

Uniforms are a fairly standard 6-pocket jacket with 4-pocket pants made, depending on weight, are either a light ripstop-type material, a heavier 2-season set with an optional liner, and a heavy winter set. Both the "autumn" and "frost" are of flatter, browner coloration of a digitized 'berezka' pattern that is standard within the armed forces. Light-weight camouflage suits are utilized over standard uniforms when needed. A fairly standard canvas belt for general use is common - most often used as a toolbelt or to carry a pistol and/or extra ammo. An all-season leather boot is issued footwear, sometimes seen with gaiters when needed.

what are pocket dimensions

[Gallia-]

What? Six magazines is not a lot, that's two pouches.

[Imperializt Russia]

I'm loving the sound of a 6mm Unified RPK derived rifle.

[United states of brazilian nations]

so people, turns out i really had screwed up with calculations. i made some other quick calculations, some rough estimates on compressed powder etc. and reached a result, i guess.

so, as this thing uses compressed powder, hot loads, i'll sure have to make its walls ticker, but whatsoever. i managed to get some good estimates while basing it around the 6.8 SPC that would be a very close counterpart to mine.

the result is here.

i'm a ballistics illiterate so i really don't know how to "read" these numbers. for a STANAG-compatible, 5.56x45mm NATO based cartridge, is this performance good, acceptable, meh, sub-par or utter crap?

[Triplebaconation]

It's page 308!

[Aqizithiuda]

so people, turns out i really had screwed up with calculations. i made some other quick calculations, some rough estimates on compressed powder etc. and reached a result, i guess.

so, as this thing uses compressed powder, hot loads, i'll sure have to make its walls ticker, but whatsoever. i managed to get some good estimates while basing it around the 6.8 SPC that would be a very close counterpart to mine.

the result is here.

i'm a ballistics illiterate so i really don't know how to "read" these numbers. for a STANAG-compatible, 5.56x45mm NATO based cartridge, is this performance good, acceptable, meh, sub-par or utter crap?

It's pretty decent round. What are the dimensions of the case and the projectile?

[Arkandros]

Do you train your grunts in ambidextrously firing their rifles? I keep on hearing about it and realize its' benefits (firing around corners on your dominant side, if losing dexterity in one b/c of injury or whatever, etc) but is it something that's really mastered and used in actual combat? It just sounds like a hard thing to pull of consistently, that's all.

This struck me while I was contemplating chest-mounted knife sheaths (pic related)

(Image)

for my grunts, and seeing how that setup could prove uncomfortable (rifle stock sits on knife instead of shoulder), I was going to make right-handed grunts place the knife on the left side of their torso and vice versa. But it would still get in the way for this ambidextrous firing I'm hearing about.

probably the easiest solution would be to place the knife on the off shoulder. allowing for ambidexterity during use would require your rifles to have either a bottom ejection or a mechanism to switch the side the ejector is on that is able to be used mid-firefight. If you don't have one of those two, someone is gonna get a face full of hot casings.

[Black Hand]

does anyone have any real hands on range time with the FN 5-7? just curious about feel, accuracy and recoil of it.

[Arcortus]

Figured I would put out a history for a Submachine guns.

M3 Submachine Gun (1952-Present): the M3 Grease Gun was adopted into serves in 1952 as it became evident that combat in urban areas would be common as seen from when the Byrrus Res Novae took hold in many urban areas and although the Revolution was quelled in 1949 the issue of the M1 Garand being too big and bulk to maneuver correctly witching the tight areas of the city most notably within buildings and ally ways. The first and most obvious candidate to fix the issue was the M1 Carbine but was dropped due to the fact that it's ammunition was not in high stock within the nations Armories by which time the M3 had been cast as a suggestion mainly for its short design and it's use of the .45 ACP round the same one used by the standard issue M1911 handgun. After a trial stage against other weapons including the MP40 and Carl Gustav m/45. After a year of trials the M3 was picked as the new Standard Issue Submachine gun of the United Confederate Armed Forces.

It was quickly handed out to urban unites and tank crews it was quickly nicknamed Proximasi which translates to "Shorty" and many grew to like it for its reliability and ease of use. It first saw major combat during the Islamic Uprising in Virliurba in 1967 which saw a 89 day siege of the city from Islamic Militants which ultimately resulted in Black Saturday which was the assault of the Mosque which was the headquarters for the militants activity resulting in the death of over 469 militants and 78 members of the United Confederate Armed Forces and 3 members of the Confederate Air Force after their
Hughes OH-6 Cayuse helicopter was shot down (at the time it was only one of two in use). The M3 played an important role in the attack as it served as the main weapon used by UCAF Members and was immortalized in a picture of a UCAF soldier holding it slumped across his shoulder as he smoked a cigaret with a mosque burning in the background.

It would see continual use in small counter-terrorist operations across the nation but was tested greatly in the Tribus Bellum which took place from 1999 until 2011 and occurred mostly in the arid north. It was used extensively in urban areas along with the L1A1 as well as with tank crews. Although complaints came in from tank crews complaining of power and range issues when in heavy combat and eventually lead to many soldiers buy their own rifles and using them in combat with the Ruger Mini-14, FAL-OSW, and Kel-Tec RFB were among the most popular with troop. After the war in 2011 the Ministry of the Military laid out plans to phase the M3 out of service with tank crews and has proposed many successors including the FAL-OSW, Kel-Tec RFB, and SCAR-H Mk 17 CQC however a choice has yet to be made. The submachine gun still continues to A&E survive with Urban UCAF forces but has slowly seen a drop in usage with other shorter FAL/L1A1 veto ants being used instead. Currently the MoM is debating on wether to replace the gun by ether replacing it with another Submachine gun or with a short barrel carbine.

With this history of the M3 Submachine gun is there anything period wise that I screwed up and or just stupid things in there that I should probably take out. Also what would be the best choice for a new weapon for our tank crews?

[New-Found Land]

Do you train your grunts in ambidextrously firing their rifles? I keep on hearing about it and realize its' benefits (firing around corners on your dominant side, if losing dexterity in one b/c of injury or whatever, etc) but is it something that's really mastered and used in actual combat? It just sounds like a hard thing to pull of consistently, that's all.

This struck me while I was contemplating chest-mounted knife sheaths (pic related)

(Image)

for my grunts, and seeing how that setup could prove uncomfortable (rifle stock sits on knife instead of shoulder), I was going to make right-handed grunts place the knife on the left side of their torso and vice versa. But it would still get in the way for this ambidextrous firing I'm hearing about.

I'm ambidextrous and can shoot like such. As a matter of point I keep both shoulders clear to swap. However this applies almost exclusively to my participation in airsoft, where I do not have to worry about spent cartridges. For work my vest does not give me the option for stuff on my shoulders, and I therefore need not worry about it when I am tasked the shotgun. Otherwise it's pistol All the way. Plus I'm right eye dominant which is fun shooting lefty.

I really don't think there is a point in training your troops to shoot off hand to more then a basic level for emergency situations. If they need it they will make it work, but SHTF already.

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

So... 4.6x30mm rifle cartridge MKII

I've no fancy scribble to show, so an old fashioned statbloc will have to do.

Bullet diameter 4.65mm
Neck diameter 5.3mm
Shoulder diameter 7.75mm
Base diameter 8.02mm
Rim diameter 8mm
Rim thickness 1.1mm
Case length 30.5mm
Overall length 41.5mm
Case capacity 0.868g
Filling weight 0.648g
Rifling twist 162mm
Operating pressure 379.2 MPa (55,000 psi)
Maximum pressure 427.4MPa (62,000 psi)

Current calculations suggest a muzzle velocity of 885m/s (907m/s with +P loads) and an effective range of 350m + (450m for +P).

The current plan is for these to be fired from a bullpup delayed blowback subcarbine, featuring 330mm barrel and feeding from 50 - 60 round casket magazines.

Words and opinions?

[Aqizithiuda]

So... 4.6x30mm rifle cartridge MKII

I've no fancy scribble to show, so an old fashioned statbloc will have to do.

Bullet diameter 4.65mm
Neck diameter 5.3mm
Shoulder diameter 7.75mm
Base diameter 8.02mm
Rim diameter 8mm
Rim thickness 1.1mm
Case length 30.5mm
Overall length 41.5mm
Case capacity 0.868g
Filling weight 0.648g
Rifling twist 162mm
Operating pressure 379.2 MPa (55,000 psi)
Maximum pressure 427.4MPa (62,000 psi)

Current calculations suggest a muzzle velocity of 885m/s (907m/s with +P loads) and an effective range of 350m + (450m for +P).

The current plan is for these to be fired from a bullpup delayed blowback subcarbine, featuring 330mm barrel and feeding from 50 - 60 round casket magazines.

Words and opinions?

I hope someone in the squad has a more powerful weapon, but it is an attractive idea on paper.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

I assume Ford is making a distinction between demonstrations and riots.

I...personally agree with Ford regarding rioters and their rights. Professionally, I can't put that opinion into practice if I want to keep drawing a paycheck...and I do (even though I'm pretty sure I can get more money on unemployment but that's a whole new topic). If you're stupid enough to riot, and fight the police, you deserve what you get. Did you know that, when presented with a given use of force situation, the average citizen responds that they would have used more force than the officer involved in said situation did?

Demonstrators are fine. Its their right to protest shit in a lawful manner, more power to them.



Well, duh. No one would need to protest in a civil rights lovefest.

I haven't really went into the topic for Fordorsia, but I'd imagine protests, while very much legal, would be uncommon. The government doesn't want it's people angry, so they do all they can to keep them happy.
Now, riots in Fordorsia aren't just rare, they're nearly non-existent. Not just because of the happy and hard-working population, but because of the fact that everyone, even would-be rioters, know the immediate consequences of such actions. As soon as a mass protest gets violent towards police, batons and rubber bullets are used en masse. If a riot starts and the general public is in danger, a single rifle round is fired into the crowd of rioters.

I second this. The moment you produce a gun you've lost any and all expectations for use of less-lethal force. But otherwise shooting live lethal ammunition at rioters is not justified.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Do you train your grunts in ambidextrously firing their rifles? I keep on hearing about it and realize its' benefits (firing around corners on your dominant side, if losing dexterity in one b/c of injury or whatever, etc) but is it something that's really mastered and used in actual combat? It just sounds like a hard thing to pull of consistently, that's all.

This struck me while I was contemplating chest-mounted knife sheaths (pic related)

(Image)

for my grunts, and seeing how that setup could prove uncomfortable (rifle stock sits on knife instead of shoulder), I was going to make right-handed grunts place the knife on the left side of their torso and vice versa. But it would still get in the way for this ambidextrous firing I'm hearing about.

probably the easiest solution would be to place the knife on the off shoulder. allowing for ambidexterity during use would require your rifles to have either a bottom ejection or a mechanism to switch the side the ejector is on that is able to be used mid-firefight. If you don't have one of those two, someone is gonna get a face full of hot casings.

My MGs have bottom ejection and my rifles can switch which side to eject to.