Main Military Weapon of Your Country: Part 12

[Aqizithiuda]

I'm thinking Level IV plates and I was thinking the same, even if it doesn't go through it should kill or at least heavily injure the target.

And if they're wearing trauma plates?

Like the M993/M995 and 7N24?

yes?

Just sticking them out there so that people know what to look for.

[Yes Im Biop]

It does, and you did (along with several other IIRC).


Because I have an odd obsession with SCHV rounds. As I see it, modern body armour has rendered terminal performance a secondary concern at best. I can use 8mm hollowpoints, and have the best terminal performance in the world, but it does me no good if the target is wearing body armour.

Perhaps I'm seeing things from the wrong viewpoint though...

WIth a small fast razor sharp bullet you have to hit ether the Aorta, or the brain, And even then I'm not sure those would guarantee an instant kill

Because bottom paged.

Unrelated note, I read that Silver Dart rounds are self sharping, What does that mean?

[Black Hand]

Any decent guesses on how a 12X64 round would perform against Armor? Assuming a Solid Steel core TMJ, 350 Gr projectile? main use being within 250 meters as a Urban combat weapon.

MV?

Should be somewhere around 900 M/S or so.

I'm thinking Level IV plates and I was thinking the same, even if it doesn't go through it should kill or at least heavily injure the target.

And if they're wearing trauma plates?

uhmmm it's a big fucker. And this is going in an Automatic rifle (i'm not fully sure if they're stilled classed as assault rifles) So round one, followed by two or three will put them down, the energy is going somewhere.

[Yes Im Biop]

MV?

Should be somewhere around 900 M/S or so.

2700fp/s? That's SNiper Rifle catagory.

Let me respond with an OUCH.

[Black Hand]

Should be somewhere around 900 M/S or so.

2700fp/s? That's SNiper Rifle catagory.

Let me respond with an OUCH.

woops, that's out of a 24" I need to figure out what it would be for a 12" barrel.

[Bhelyant]

Just sticking them out there so that people know what to look for.

oh

uhmmm it's a big fucker. And this is going in an Automatic rifle (i'm not fully sure if they're stilled classed as assault rifles) So round one, followed by two or three will put them down, the energy is going somewhere.

You're FanT and have shown some of the sort of what you're up against.

If you're going to claim that your soldiers are large enough to be able to handle a 12x64 in full auto well enough to make multiple hits on a torso, then I don't think your enemies scaling up their soldiers and armour similarly would be out of whack.

[Yes Im Biop]

Just sticking them out there so that people know what to look for.

oh

uhmmm it's a big fucker. And this is going in an Automatic rifle (i'm not fully sure if they're stilled classed as assault rifles) So round one, followed by two or three will put them down, the energy is going somewhere.

You're FanT and have shown some of the sort of what you're up against.

If you're going to claim that your soldiers are large enough to be able to handle a 12x64 in full auto well enough to make multiple hits on a torso, then I don't think your enemies scaling up their soldiers and armour similarly would be out of whack.

I've seen some of his stuff, It's less fanT and more of what I do, which is AlterPMT/FT

[Black Hand]

Just sticking them out there so that people know what to look for.

oh

uhmmm it's a big fucker. And this is going in an Automatic rifle (i'm not fully sure if they're stilled classed as assault rifles) So round one, followed by two or three will put them down, the energy is going somewhere.

You're FanT and have shown some of the sort of what you're up against.

If you're going to claim that your soldiers are large enough to be able to handle a 12x64 in full auto well enough to make multiple hits on a torso, then I don't think your enemies scaling up their soldiers and armour similarly would be out of whack.

Well i'm assuming the first round would make the target rather immobile what I showed was a harsuit of sorts, I can't find an good pictures of GDI zone Trooper power armour, and Most enemies wouldn't be Wearing full on power armour, even mine don;t wear externally heavy armor it just has a better area of protection. So I mean, 12X64 is supposed to be a little difficult to control, by no means easy but still usable.

[Bhelyant]

I've seen some of his stuff, It's less fanT and more of what I do, which is AlterPMT/FT

I'm going with FanT because that's what I was told - not that there isn't any overlap...

PMT and FT - Armour will still be developed similarly, if not even more-so.

[Yes Im Biop]

I've seen some of his stuff, It's less fanT and more of what I do, which is AlterPMT/FT

I'm going with FanT because that's what I was told - not that there isn't any overlap...

PMT and FT - Armour will still be developed similarly, if not even more-so.

I use between heavy and Extremely heavy armor and very big guns (10x90 is my mainline rifle) and some soldiers are wrapped in essentially an APC's worth of armor

[Tule]

I think most people here are overestimating the lethality of the energy dump that happens when a powerful rifle round strikes a Trauma plate.

Will it hurt? Oh yes.
Will it incapacitate? Yup.
Can it kill? Yes
Will it kill someone? Unlikely.

An 80 Kg man crashing his car into a wall at 75 kph has about as much energy dumped into him via the seatbelt as a man getting hit in a trauma plate with a .50 BMG.

A violent force indeed, but your chances of survival are very good.

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

His main concern is punching holes in armor I believe, Which is like mine but I use heavy fast bullets and explosive to do it

Indeed. However, I don't have PA dragons, so hivel 10mm HE is quite out of the question.

---

I believe it's to get the best ballistics from the smallest round possible, with poor terminal ballistics being offset by a spoon tip.

Also true, although the 4mm's ballistic properties surprised me. I started using it because 4mm projectiles require the least amount of energy to penetrate armour.

---

think most people here are overestimating the lethality of the energy dump that happens when a powerful rifle round strikes a Trauma plate.

Will it hurt? Oh yes.
Will it incapacitate? Yup.
Can it kill? Yes
Will it kill someone? Unlikely.

An 80 Kg man crashing his car into a wall at 75 kph has about as much energy dumped into him via the seatbelt as a man getting hit in a trauma plate with a .50 BMG.

A violent force indeed, but your chances of survival are very good.

Hence my opinion that the only way to cause meaningful injury to a combatant is to penetrate the armour with as many projectiles as possible.

[Black Hand]

I think most people here are overestimating the lethality of the energy dump that happens when a powerful rifle round strikes a Trauma plate.

Will it hurt? Oh yes.
Will it incapacitate? Yup.
Can it kill? Yes
Will it kill someone? Unlikely.

An 80 Kg man crashing his car into a wall at 75 kph has about as much energy dumped into him via the seatbelt as a man getting hit in a trauma plate with a .50 BMG.

A violent force indeed, but your chances of survival are very good.

I guess, the question there is will the round penetrate?
it's got a lot of power.

[Aqizithiuda]

The 6x45mm CCTA:



It should do around 940 m/s out of a 405mm barrel and should, at 1000 metres, penetrate in excess of 3mm of mild steel. It's for what I'm hoping will be come a sort of AK analogue for caseless ammunition.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/ ... 6ke9uv.png

Too lazy to make new rifles anymore. Stand in 1950s service rifle. 8mm Mazon.

[United states of brazilian nations]

so, any thoughts about this round?

http://www.deviantart.com/art/8x55mm-USBN-397055007

i personally think it ended up being too big, too heavy-recoiling, and maybe even a little too powerful for a GPMG. yes, you can never have enough power, but in this case it comes at the cost of higher recoil and pressure.

[Yes Im Biop]

His main concern is punching holes in armor I believe, Which is like mine but I use heavy fast bullets and explosive to do it

Indeed. However, I don't have PA dragons, so hivel 10mm HE is quite out of the question.

---

I believe it's to get the best ballistics from the smallest round possible, with poor terminal ballistics being offset by a spoon tip.

Also true, although the 4mm's ballistic properties surprised me. I started using it because 4mm projectiles require the least amount of energy to penetrate armour.

---

think most people here are overestimating the lethality of the energy dump that happens when a powerful rifle round strikes a Trauma plate.

Will it hurt? Oh yes.
Will it incapacitate? Yup.
Can it kill? Yes
Will it kill someone? Unlikely.

An 80 Kg man crashing his car into a wall at 75 kph has about as much energy dumped into him via the seatbelt as a man getting hit in a trauma plate with a .50 BMG.

A violent force indeed, but your chances of survival are very good.

Hence my opinion that the only way to cause meaningful injury to a combatant is to penetrate the Armour with as many projectiles as possible.

Which kind of armor? Kevlar fibers, Ceramic plates, or RHA Steel?

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

Which kind of armor? Kevlar fibers, Ceramic plates, or RHA Steel?

All of the above.

[Aqizithiuda]

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/242/b/2/8mm_mazon_semi_by_nirvashtypeend-d6ke9uv.png

Too lazy to make new rifles anymore. Stand in 1950s service rifle. 8mm Mazon.

Where does the bolt handle go during recoil?

so, any thoughts about this round?

http://www.deviantart.com/art/8x55mm-USBN-397055007

i personally think it ended up being too big, too heavy-recoiling, and maybe even a little too powerful for a GPMG. yes, you can never have enough power, but in this case it comes at the cost of higher recoil and pressure.

Definitely not an ideal round. You're going to have lots of throat and barrel erosion problems with that, and I imagine that barrels will also heat up much faster than udea. You'd want something more like the 8mm Remington Magnum, although even that's probably a bit big and powerful.

Now, onto the projectiles.

I really don't think you've got a good understanding of what an AP cartridge looks like. These, for instance, either have a thicker copper jacket surrounding a steel core or a copper jacket, lead cup and then steel core. A tungsten cored penetrator will probably look something like this and will naturally be shorter than a standard cartridge (because it's denser), while steel AP projectiles will likely be longer, lighter or longer and lighter than lead cored projectiles.

The APSBR isn't really needed, since you have the APBR (which doesn't need that light grey highlight around the airgap), and since the rounds aren't pure steel/copper/brass/tungsten, which are the main bullet materials that warrant a spoontip.

Replace the lead with polymer in the SPLAP, or else it's really not all that lighter.

SPAASR won't work as you're intending. It will instead act as a frangible round with less penetration of walls, flesh, etc.

IIRC, your MPAMR is a tad small in diameter to be particularly effective. Better to just make it a plain API round and get rid of the RDX.

The SLAP-MPAM will have even worse performance than the MPAMR, so just make it a API round and look at how sabots actually look.

[Bhelyant]

so, any thoughts about this round?

http://www.deviantart.com/art/8x55mm-USBN-397055007

i personally think it ended up being too big, too heavy-recoiling, and maybe even a little too powerful for a GPMG. yes, you can never have enough power, but in this case it comes at the cost of higher recoil and pressure.

How'd you come up with the numbers?
bullet should be seated a little bit more, and probably be a little bit longer
case should be tapered
there's an excessive selection of bullets, and some aren't modeled to be perfectly accurate, and some aren't really feasible

[United states of brazilian nations]

so, any thoughts about this round?

http://www.deviantart.com/art/8x55mm-USBN-397055007

i personally think it ended up being too big, too heavy-recoiling, and maybe even a little too powerful for a GPMG. yes, you can never have enough power, but in this case it comes at the cost of higher recoil and pressure.

How'd you come up with the numbers?
bullet should be seated a little bit more, and probably be a little bit longer
case should be tapered
there's an excessive selection of bullets, and some aren't modeled to be perfectly accurate, and some aren't really feasible

well, actually most of the numbers (except measurements in mm) were estimated, some through math formulas, other through ballistics calculators, others by guess as i can't seem to find something to calculate it.
yeah, most of them were made in a hurry and to be honest i know very litle, if nothing, about rounds. anyways, i'm here for that, to seek advice.

-snip-

well, as i said before to be honest i don't have any idea what some specialized cartriges look like (blame anti-gun culture and laws, sorry for mini-rant there) and i know very little about these things. as aformentioned, i'm here for that though, to get advice.
your posts are definitely noted and i will try to use that when making my next rounds, if i ever make them, this one was out of sheer boredom.
where did you find those photos? i google'd for almost hours trying to find good pictures of cutaways yet failed, now you come up with a whole bunch of 'em...
tomorrow i will be uploading my nation's first standard issue rifle ever, hope it doesn't have as many flaws.
well, it's almost a copy of the mosin nagant so it'd be hard to go wrong with that.

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

The 6x45mm CCTA:

(Image)

It should do around 940 m/s out of a 405mm barrel and should, at 1000 metres, penetrate in excess of 3mm of mild steel. It's for what I'm hoping will be come a sort of AK analogue for caseless ammunition.

Nice!
May I ask how you achieve such high velocities?

[Transnapastain]

I think most people here are overestimating the lethality of the energy dump that happens when a powerful rifle round strikes a Trauma plate.

Will it hurt? Oh yes.
Will it incapacitate? Yup.
Can it kill? Yes
Will it kill someone? Unlikely.

An 80 Kg man crashing his car into a wall at 75 kph has about as much energy dumped into him via the seatbelt as a man getting hit in a trauma plate with a .50 BMG.

A violent force indeed, but your chances of survival are very good.

As I've said before, our officer was shot point blank in the chest with two .45 rounds.

Broken ribs and incapacitated, hospitalized for several days, but survived.

[Black Hand]

I think most people here are overestimating the lethality of the energy dump that happens when a powerful rifle round strikes a Trauma plate.

Will it hurt? Oh yes.
Will it incapacitate? Yup.
Can it kill? Yes
Will it kill someone? Unlikely.

An 80 Kg man crashing his car into a wall at 75 kph has about as much energy dumped into him via the seatbelt as a man getting hit in a trauma plate with a .50 BMG.

A violent force indeed, but your chances of survival are very good.

As I've said before, our officer was shot point blank in the chest with two .45 rounds.

Broken ribs and incapacitated, hospitalized for several days, but survived.

good
but in this case it's a 350 gr 12mm projectile traveling at 900 m/s so that might be different.

[Transnapastain]

As I've said before, our officer was shot point blank in the chest with two .45 rounds.

Broken ribs and incapacitated, hospitalized for several days, but survived.

good
but in this case it's a 350 gr 12mm projectile traveling at 900 m/s so that might be different.

I'm merely providing a real world example of such an occurrence, since real world experience is extremely lacking by most people in this thread.

Also, if it wasn't clear, I was agreeing with Tule....cept I'm not TOO sure about the .50 BMG to the protected chest claim. :/ Thats also not really my area of expertise.