Main Military Weapon of Your Country: Part 12

[Khornatenreich]

Yes indeed.

[Bezombia]

page 225 winchester

[Aqizithiuda]

Yes indeed.

In that case I'll take his word for it.

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

Anywhere between slightly under 1 MOA (SIG 550 cost and quality) to 2-3 MOA (good AK/AR cost and quality) to more than 4 MOA (crappy AK/AR cost and quality).

Probably 2 MoA then.

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1moa would certainly be achievable, especially if you were to use a FF tube, but having said that, your larger stepping stone will be your ammunition quality and your soldiers

FF tube?

---

Apparently some ARs get 1 MOA out of the box.

But at what cost?

[Bezombia]

Apparently some ARs get 1 MOA out of the box.

But at what cost?

I don't know. Spree said it so I naturally assume it's true.

[Paddy O Fernature]

Anywhere between slightly under 1 MOA (SIG 550 cost and quality) to 2-3 MOA (good AK/AR cost and quality) to more than 4 MOA (crappy AK/AR cost and quality).

Probably 2 MoA then.

---

1moa would certainly be achievable, especially if you were to use a FF tube, but having said that, your larger stepping stone will be your ammunition quality and your soldiers

FF tube?

---

Apparently some ARs get 1 MOA out of the box.

But at what cost?

FF=Free Float

As for the cost....Roughly 1,500 out the door. Custom built from the ground up, and I have shot 3/4 inch group at 100 yrds with it from a bench.

[Bhelyant]

1moa would certainly be achievable, especially if you were to use a FF tube, but having said that, your larger stepping stone will be your ammunition quality and your soldiers

FF tube?

free float

Apparently some ARs get 1 MOA out of the box.

But at what cost?

some Colt LE6920s have been known to from a mechanical rest

[Khornatenreich]

With the "updated" image of the 8.93R Kommandantpatrone:

Image of the "fixed" Modell 1949 Kommandpistole:

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

FF=Free Float

free float

Yeah, that would make sense.

As for the cost....Roughly 1,500 out the door. Custom built from the ground up, and I have shot 3/4 inch group at 100 yrds with it from a bench.

That's a nice looking AR. Problem is though, I can't really justify spending $1.000 < on what will essentially be an L86.

[Khornatenreich]

Alright, guys, I'm taking a "big leap" here, but I'm going to need some form of "German/nazi Ma-deuce" so as to quote a trusted kamerad. Well then, how can I get something kinda-sorta MG42 vibe-ish, but in a bigass caliber ('ll think of something, no-worries there, 15mm is a distinct possibility methinks, later models'll probably be some kinda-sorta 20mm thing, maybe....). Basically, a heavy, troop-deployed or vehicle mounted machinegun that can bumblefuck infantry units, work as an impromptu AA gun (DsHK, Ma2B, MG 131, ect). Any ideas, or reference information at all on what would be a good starting point?

[Aqizithiuda]

With the "updated" image of the 8.93R Kommandantpatrone:

(Image)

Image of the "fixed" Modell 1949 Kommandpistole:

(Image)

Looking good now.

Alright, guys, I'm taking a "big leap" here, but I'm going to need some form of "German/nazi Ma-deuce" so as to quote a trusted kamerad. Well then, how can I get something kinda-sorta MG42 vibe-ish, but in a bigass caliber ('ll think of something, no-worries there, 15mm is a distinct possibility methinks, later models'll probably be some kinda-sorta 20mm thing, maybe....). Basically, a heavy, troop-deployed or vehicle mounted machinegun that can bumblefuck infantry units, work as an impromptu AA gun (DsHK, Ma2B, MG 131, ect). Any ideas, or reference information at all on what would be a good starting point?

Look at the MG151/15.

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Off topic thought: I've decided that I'll do my caseless rifle in several different calibers now. Instead of just 6mm, I'm going to offer it in 4.5mm (microcaliber), 6mm (SCHV), 7mm (very heavy intermediate/light full power round) and 8mm (full powered round). Watch this space for more on these rounds as I develop them.

[Black Hand]

Alright, guys, I'm taking a "big leap" here, but I'm going to need some form of "German/nazi Ma-deuce" so as to quote a trusted kamerad. Well then, how can I get something kinda-sorta MG42 vibe-ish, but in a bigass caliber ('ll think of something, no-worries there, 15mm is a distinct possibility methinks, later models'll probably be some kinda-sorta 20mm thing, maybe....). Basically, a heavy, troop-deployed or vehicle mounted machinegun that can bumblefuck infantry units, work as an impromptu AA gun (DsHK, Ma2B, MG 131, ect). Any ideas, or reference information at all on what would be a good starting point?

DAKKA
Even more DAKKA
Those might work, though I'd be hesitant to use the MK108.

FAKEEDIT: Aqiz you mother fucking ninja

[Paddy O Fernature]

FF=Free Float

free float

Yeah, that would make sense.

As for the cost....Roughly 1,500 out the door. Custom built from the ground up, and I have shot 3/4 inch group at 100 yrds with it from a bench.

That's a nice looking AR. Problem is though, I can't really justify spending $1.000 < on what will essentially be an L86.

Dunno where you are from, but around here, a L86 would cost $20K+ if you could even find one.

Hell, it costs almost 3k just to get a bare bones G36 conversion (semi auto only).

[Bhelyant]

That's a nice looking AR. Problem is though, I can't really justify spending $1.000 < on what will essentially be an L86.

I didn't find an official report, but someone on ask.com said the SA80 already costs that much to begin with. Acquisition cost seems more like a marketing ploy than anything though (IMO) considering the amount of ammunition used in the rifle's service life and training costs. If it's that much of an issue you could probably find something designed for export and hope for some foreign subsidies.

[San-Silvacian]

Yeah, that would make sense.


That's a nice looking AR. Problem is though, I can't really justify spending $1.000 < on what will essentially be an L86.

Dunno where you are from, but around here, a L86 would cost $20K+ if you could even find one.

Hell, it costs almost 3k just to get a bare bones G36 conversion (semi auto only).

Isn't that an SL-8 or something silly like that?

tbh whenever I get back from BCT/AIT I'll most likely look into an AR-15.

Most likely get whatever that Colt rifle is that is pretty much a semi-automatic M4. Though I'd most likely put some aftermarket parts on it. Mil-spec is lowest bidder, which many people don't get.

[Paddy O Fernature]

Dunno where you are from, but around here, a L86 would cost $20K+ if you could even find one.

Hell, it costs almost 3k just to get a bare bones G36 conversion (semi auto only).

Isn't that an SL-8 or something silly like that?

tbh whenever I get back from BCT/AIT I'll most likely look into an AR-15.

Most likely get whatever that Colt rifle is that is pretty much a semi-automatic M4. Though I'd most likely put some aftermarket parts on it. Mil-spec is lowest bidder, which many people don't get.

An SL-8 is an abortion that the G36 family doesn't speak of.

Sadly, you have to buy a SL-8... gut it.... buy a G36 parts kit (minus receiver) and force the guts from the SL-8 into it to get a semi auto G36. After looking at my online source... it will currently cost you 4-5k to do this process.

Thanks Obama.

[Khornatenreich]

Thank you for this help Gentlemen, it is much appreciated.

[Aqizithiuda]

That's a nice looking AR. Problem is though, I can't really justify spending $1.000 < on what will essentially be an L86.

I didn't find an official report, but someone on ask.com said the SA80 already costs that much to begin with. Acquisition cost seems more like a marketing ploy than anything though (IMO) considering the amount of ammunition used in the rifle's service life and training costs. If it's that much of an issue you could probably find something designed for export and hope for some foreign subsidies.

I think it's more that Arch is trying to get a cheap, easily produced rifle and IAR/LSW, so super accuracy isn't needed. He'd be trying to end up with something not much more expensive than a milspec M16/M4.

[San-Silvacian]

Isn't that an SL-8 or something silly like that?

tbh whenever I get back from BCT/AIT I'll most likely look into an AR-15.

Most likely get whatever that Colt rifle is that is pretty much a semi-automatic M4. Though I'd most likely put some aftermarket parts on it. Mil-spec is lowest bidder, which many people don't get.

An SL-8 is an abortion that the G36 family doesn't speak of.

Sadly, you have to buy a SL-8... gut it.... buy a G36 parts kit (minus receiver) and force the guts from the SL-8 into it to get a semi auto G36. After looking at my online source... it will currently cost you 4-5k to do this process.

Thanks Obama.

That sucks.

I've never been a fan of the G36 though, its neat and all, though I'd rather get a FAMAS first.

[Bhelyant]

Since we were talking about rifle costs, does anyone happen to know if there's some charts with the prices listed? (or maybe even an estimate on how much you can subtract for the civilian semi-auto versions for bulk pricing?) I think I recall the Forgotten Weapons guy said manufacturing costs for the EM-2 were 10x as much as the FN FALs, someone on here said AKs are only $75 to the Russian military, and FAMAS' seem to be 2700 Euros and up depending on your source. Those seem like such huge variations...

[Dutch Ghana]

Since we were talking about rifle costs, does anyone happen to know if there's some charts with the prices listed? (or maybe even an estimate on how much you can subtract for the civilian semi-auto versions for bulk pricing?) I think I recall the Forgotten Weapons guy said manufacturing costs for the EM-2 were 10x as much as the FN FALs, someone on here said AKs are only $75 to the Russian military, and FAMAS' seem to be 2700 Euros and up depending on your source. Those seem like such huge variations...

The size of the production run influences the cost tremendously. If you produce and sell on the scale of the AK, the cost of all the machine tools and other pieces of equipment is spread over so many items that it is comparatively low. If you produce for a much smaller market, those costs make up much more of the total price of each item. And this is not taking into account differences in the cost of materials and labor.

[Bhelyant]

Since we were talking about rifle costs, does anyone happen to know if there's some charts with the prices listed? (or maybe even an estimate on how much you can subtract for the civilian semi-auto versions for bulk pricing?) I think I recall the Forgotten Weapons guy said manufacturing costs for the EM-2 were 10x as much as the FN FALs, someone on here said AKs are only $75 to the Russian military, and FAMAS' seem to be 2700 Euros and up depending on your source. Those seem like such huge variations...

The size of the production run influences the cost tremendously. If you produce and sell on the scale of the AK, the cost of all the machine tools and other pieces of equipment is spread over so many items that it is comparatively low. If you produce for a much smaller market, those costs make up much more of the total price of each item. And this is not taking into account differences in the cost of materials and labor.

Well yeah, but it's still such a huge amount...

[Wulfenburg]

Here are the small arms in use by the Panzergrenadier, Jäger and FallschirmJager troops of the Wulfenburg Heer.

top to bottom
M1911 Colt pistol chambered in .45 ACP
AK-74 chambered in 7.62x39mm
AK-74 with underslung GP-25 Kostyor grenade launcher
AKS-74U used by the Fallschirmtruppen
M-1C sniper rifle with M84 scope

Special purpose forces (Sondermaschinen Truppen)

Top to bottom
Heckler und Kock Mk.23 pistol with suppressor and Laser Aim Module,
PorsimoTech M-150 with suppressor, ACOG and forearm
PorsimoTech M-150 with holosight, leafsights and PorsimoTech Underslung Grenade Launcher
PorsimoTech M-150 Battlefield Marksman variant with M-150 scope and bipod
CheyTac Intervention M200 with scope and bipod

[Aqizithiuda]

IIRC, AKs cost the Russian military roughly 300 USD. This is probably a combination of a large production run, ease of manufacture and relatively low wages compared to, say, France. There probably aren't as many environmental regulations etc either, and those do add a bit to the cost of goods.

[Bhelyant]

well that number makes much more sense >.>

thanks ^.^