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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:56 pm
by Kouralia
United Republics of Aralon wrote:once you are in the building explosives are off the table, as UBGL won't arm, handgrenades might be thrown back, or just blow you up too if the walls are shittier than you expected.

I believe that's contrary to British FiBUA.
Bezombia wrote:
Kouralia wrote:You're Using grenades in CQC wrong. (0:56)


Throwing a 40mm grenade into a room is not a viable method of taking the room, mainly because it won't explode if you just throw it.

Why are you using 40mm grenades in room clearance?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:57 pm
by Bezombia
Kouralia wrote:Why are you using 40mm grenades in room clearance?


You're not, you're using 40mm Buckshot because 40mm grenades in room clearance is silly.

I've said this at least a dozen times in the past ten minutes.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:57 pm
by Ea90
only acceptable grenade launcher (aside from rifle grenades) is m79

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:58 pm
by United Republics of Aralon
Bezombia wrote:
United Republics of Aralon wrote:once you are in the building explosives are off the table, as UBGL won't arm, handgrenades might be thrown back, or just blow you up too if the walls are shittier than you expected.


Hence, 40mm buck.

Yes,post-entry.And flash if you have it. Pre-entry you try to blow 'em the fuck up, as less CQC equals more happiness and less people bleeding.

Kouralia wrote:
United Republics of Aralon wrote:once you are in the building explosives are off the table, as UBGL won't arm, handgrenades might be thrown back, or just blow you up too if the walls are shittier than you expected.

I believe that's contrary to British FiBUA.
Bezombia wrote:
Throwing a 40mm grenade into a room is not a viable method of taking the room, mainly because it won't explode if you just throw it.

Why are you using 40mm grenades in room clearance?

British what?

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:58 pm
by Bezombia
Ea90 wrote:only acceptable grenade launcher (aside from rifle grenades) is m79


I'm a fan of the Mk. 13 myself. Moreso than the M320/AG36.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:58 pm
by Kouralia
Bezombia wrote:
Kouralia wrote:Why are you using 40mm grenades in room clearance?


You're not, you're using 40mm Buckshot because 40mm grenades in room clearance is silly.

I've said this at least a dozen times in the past ten minutes.

Why are you using 40mm buckshot in room clearance?

Why is the following not occurring:
1) You using whatever weapon the UBGL's attached to
2) You letting your squad go in first, and thus having nothing to do with room clearance

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:59 pm
by Aqizithiuda
It should be mentioned that 40mm buckshot rounds were developed for the M79 in Vietnam. The intended use was for it to be already loaded prior to an ambush. When the troops were ambushed, the grenadier would have some way to fire back before he took cover and got his sidearm or started to target more distant enemies.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:59 pm
by United states of brazilian nations
Bezombia wrote:
United Republics of Aralon wrote:1 grenade goes in (hopefully) creates mess.
2 team goes in and messes up what the grenade failed to.
3 Team leaves, mess remains, poor Consuela gets to celan up.

If steps one and two concurr, team ends up on Consuelas mop as well.
(Image)
-"No, no no. senhor operator no here. No no no senhor, senhor operator is no here.I go, room very messy. Senhor operator is on the kicthen wall.
No no no no."


Grenades have to travel a minimal distance before they arm themselves.
40mm buck was designed to be used in situations when the operator would be facing ranges within that minimal distance (such as inside a building) but doesn't have another weapon due to their grenade launcher being their main weapon.


In other words, the China Lake Grenade Launcher is the best pump action shotgun and I don't know why we're using R870s instead.


i think he was talking about your average hand grenade.
you don't need no grenade launcher in close quarters.

nevermind, i screwed up. didn't notice last posts.
BTW, finishing that .458 SOCOM revolver challenge.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:59 pm
by The Republic of Lanos
You can also use an unarmed-launched 40mm grenade as a lethal projectile/huge ass bullet at close distances if need be.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:00 pm
by Black Hand
United Republics of Aralon wrote:

British what?[/quote]
Fighting, in, built, up, areas.
FiBUA, another acronym for urban warfare. similar to MOUT, or CQB sorta.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:01 pm
by Kouralia
United Republics of Aralon wrote:
Kouralia wrote:I believe that's contrary to British FiBUA.

British what?
And who talked about htrowing 40mm? I said throw frag/thermobaric Handgrenade not 40mm.

Fighting in Built Up Areas

AKA FiSH and CHiPS
(Fighting in Someone's House and Causing Havoc in Public Spaces)
:p

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:02 pm
by United Republics of Aralon
United states of brazilian nations wrote:
Bezombia wrote:
Grenades have to travel a minimal distance before they arm themselves.
40mm buck was designed to be used in situations when the operator would be facing ranges within that minimal distance (such as inside a building) but doesn't have another weapon due to their grenade launcher being their main weapon.


In other words, the China Lake Grenade Launcher is the best pump action shotgun and I don't know why we're using R870s instead.


i think he was talking about your average hand grenade.
you don't need no grenade launcher in close quarters.

Thats it. UBGLs might be contraproductive as they make the rifle heavier which means slower reaction.
I said, handgrenade pre-entry, rifle/shotgun/flash post entry.
Anyway justwait for Puz to weigh in. I'm sure he knows what is the best room cleaning procedure.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:03 pm
by United Republics of Aralon
Kouralia wrote:
United Republics of Aralon wrote:British what?
And who talked about htrowing 40mm? I said throw frag/thermobaric Handgrenade not 40mm.

Fighting in Built Up Areas

AKA FiSH and CHiPS
(Fighting in Someone's House and Causing Havoc in Public Spaces)
:p

And according to FiBUA handgrenades are to be used in confined buildings with weakish walls when the entry team is already inside?

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:04 pm
by Bezombia
Kouralia wrote:
Bezombia wrote:
You're not, you're using 40mm Buckshot because 40mm grenades in room clearance is silly.

I've said this at least a dozen times in the past ten minutes.

Why are you using 40mm buckshot in room clearance?

Why is the following not occurring:
1) You using whatever weapon the UBGL's attached to
2) You letting your squad go in first, and thus having nothing to do with room clearance


1. Because we aren't talking about UBGLs.
2. That does seem logical, but if that's what happened we wouldn't have 40mm buckshot in the first place.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:05 pm
by Imperializt Russia
Kouralia wrote:
United Republics of Aralon wrote:British what?
And who talked about htrowing 40mm? I said throw frag/thermobaric Handgrenade not 40mm.

Fighting in Built Up Areas

AKA FiSH and CHiPS
(Fighting in Someone's House and Causing Havoc in Public Spaces)
:p

I liked FIBUA because it sounded butch, FISH because it sounded funny, but FISH & CHIPS sounds absolutely glorious and so very Squaddie Humour.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:05 pm
by Fordorsia
Bezombia wrote:
Kouralia wrote:Why are you using 40mm grenades in room clearance?


You're not, you're using 40mm Buckshot because 40mm grenades in room clearance is silly.

I've said this at least a dozen times in the past ten minutes.


Beano, you have to aim a shotgun as a rifle when clearing a room. Even if you're using a pump action grenade launcher, you will still have to be:

A: Fast as shit at firing and working the action.
B: Accurate as shit.
C: Stupid.

You will be dead before you kill 2 people inside the room. If used right, a grenade will explode before anyone inside the room can do anything about it.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:06 pm
by Ea90
Aqizithiuda wrote:It should be mentioned that 40mm buckshot rounds were developed for the M79 in Vietnam.

IIRC Dolph Lundgren uses an M79 loaded with buckshot in the beginning scene of The Expendables.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:07 pm
by Kouralia
United Republics of Aralon wrote:
Kouralia wrote:Fighting in Built Up Areas

AKA FiSH and CHiPS
(Fighting in Someone's House and Causing Havoc in Public Spaces)
:p

And according to FiBUA handgrenades are to be used in confined buildings with weakish walls when the entry team is already inside?

Your statement was 'can't use hand grenades' implying a blanket statement.
Ea90 wrote:
Aqizithiuda wrote:It should be mentioned that 40mm buckshot rounds were developed for the M79 in Vietnam.

IIRC Dolph Lundgren uses an M79 loaded with buckshot in the beginning scene of The Expendables.

Is that the one where he vapourises all of a terrorist above the waist or something cuts him in half?

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:07 pm
by Ea90
Kouralia wrote:Is that the one where he vapourises all of a terrorist above the waist or something?

yep

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:08 pm
by Bezombia
Fordorsia wrote:
Bezombia wrote:
You're not, you're using 40mm Buckshot because 40mm grenades in room clearance is silly.

I've said this at least a dozen times in the past ten minutes.


Beano, you have to aim a shotgun as a rifle when clearing a room. Even if you're using a pump action grenade launcher, you will still have to be:

A: Fast as shit at firing and working the action.
B: Accurate as shit.
C: Stupid.

You will be dead before you kill 2 people inside the room. If used right, a grenade will explode before anyone inside the room can do anything about it.


Which is better than launching a grenade and either:

1. it doesn't do anything because you're in a room and inside minimal arming distance, or
2. you're outside minimal arming distance and it blows up and you die/get injured.

Also you wouldn't be the only one. It's not like soldiers load in their 40mm buckshot and then go leroy jenkinsing up the empire state building.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:10 pm
by United Republics of Aralon
Kouralia wrote:
United Republics of Aralon wrote:And according to FiBUA handgrenades are to be used in confined buildings with weakish walls when the entry team is already inside?

Your statement was 'can't use hand grenades' implying a blanket statement.
Ea90 wrote:IIRC Dolph Lundgren uses an M79 loaded with buckshot in the beginning scene of The Expendables.

Is that the one where he vapourises all of a terrorist above the waist or something cuts him in half?

Okay I wasn't unambiguous, offcourse I don't think handgrenades are categorically off the table. In a well bulit brick or concrete building they do fine, but in a wooden house, or an office space with cubicles things could go bad.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:12 pm
by Risen Britannia
Image
should I bother continuing with this?

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:13 pm
by United Republics of Aralon
Bezombia wrote:
Fordorsia wrote:
Beano, you have to aim a shotgun as a rifle when clearing a room. Even if you're using a pump action grenade launcher, you will still have to be:

A: Fast as shit at firing and working the action.
B: Accurate as shit.
C: Stupid.

You will be dead before you kill 2 people inside the room. If used right, a grenade will explode before anyone inside the room can do anything about it.


Which is better than launching a grenade and either:

1. it doesn't do anything because you're in a room and inside minimal arming distance, or
2. you're outside minimal arming distance and it blows up and you die/get injured.

Also you wouldn't be the only one. It's not like soldiers load in their 40mm buckshot and then go leroy jenkinsing up the empire state building.

Thats why you use a hand grenade.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:13 pm
by Purpelia
Sure thing. But now add some sights and a bayonet.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:13 pm
by United Republics of Aralon
Risen Britannia wrote:should I bother continuing with this?

It looks fine. I say, do it.