NationStates

Sevvania wrote:

The Archangel Conglomerate wrote:Hey, I have a quick question.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that a lead ball round will destabilize and fragment violently if it hits flesh at a high enough velocity.

Is this true?

Lead balls do terrible things to flesh. That's why they were outlawed for use in warfare by the Geneva and/or Hague Conventions, if memory serves.

They weren't.

They were outlawed because they're absolute rubbish.

Galla- wrote:

Sevvania wrote:Lead balls do terrible things to flesh. That's why they were outlawed for use in warfare by the Geneva and/or Hague Conventions, if memory serves.

They weren't.

They were outlawed because they're absolute rubbish.

Spheres are terrible at accuracy when fired from firearms. Put a bunch together and we have the shotgun.

The Republic of Lanos wrote:

Galla- wrote:
They weren't.

They were outlawed because they're absolute rubbish.

Spheres are terrible at accuracy when fired from firearms. Put a bunch together and we have the shotgun.

Excellent contribution to the conversation. I can now go to bed happily knowing that spheres suck and that many spheres put together magically equals a shotgun.

Premislyd wrote:

The Republic of Lanos wrote:Spheres are terrible at accuracy when fired from firearms. Put a bunch together and we have the shotgun.

Excellent contribution to the conversation. I can now go to bed happily knowing that spheres suck and that many spheres put together magically equals a shotgun.

Danke schoen Frau Premislyd.

The Republic of Lanos wrote:

Galla- wrote:
They weren't.

They were outlawed because they're absolute rubbish.

Spheres are terrible at accuracy when fired from firearms. Put a bunch together and we have the shotgun.

Put a bunch of big, effective spheres together and you have close order formation.

Galla- wrote:

Sevvania wrote:Lead balls do terrible things to flesh. That's why they were outlawed for use in warfare by the Geneva and/or Hague Conventions, if memory serves.

They weren't.

They were outlawed because they're absolute rubbish.

Perhaps I should have said "rounds" instead of "balls". Either way, they expand and tear up flesh to such a degree that it was felt they should be outlawed for combat use.

Sevvania wrote:

Galla- wrote:They weren't.

They were outlawed because they're absolute rubbish.

Perhaps I should have said "rounds" instead of "balls". Either way, they expand and tear up flesh to such a degree that it was felt they should be outlawed for combat use.

M193 5.56mm NATO was considered to be a widely-issued war crime but SS109/M855 was adopted in the 70s/80s. I still think the U.S. has M193 stockpiles ready to issue if things had to get to that point.

With high government funding towards the military to create jobs and offer regional protection, Dunstan's weapons are generally new and work very efficiently.

(I'm probably just going to post youtube videos because I'm too lazy to write out specs)


Main Assault Rifle: CZ805 BREN (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K0MX3GjbhM)

Main Sidearm: Browning Hi-Power (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac7qV-hPe6s)

Main Sniper Rifle: Accuracy International AW50 (Couldn't find a good video, so here: http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarm ... rms_id=420)

Main Shotgun(s): SPAS 12/AA-12 (for special forces)

Main Machine Gun: IMI Negev


I might post anti-aircraft, grenades and vehicles later if I feel like it.

Can any of you recommend a good, compact and (reasonably) simple mechanism that is suitable for caseless ammunition?

Sevvania wrote:

Galla- wrote:They weren't.

They were outlawed because they're absolute rubbish.

Perhaps I should have said "rounds" instead of "balls". Either way, they expand and tear up flesh to such a degree that it was felt they should be outlawed for combat use.

Hague Conventions specifically refer to hollow point ammunition, not lead balls.

Ea90 wrote:Can any of you recommend a good, compact and (reasonably) simple mechanism that is suitable for caseless ammunition?

Yes, but I'm not done modifying it yet to suit magazines.

Alternatively, the standard rising breachblock mechanism is pretty simple.

Ea90 wrote:Can any of you recommend a good, compact and (reasonably) simple mechanism that is suitable for caseless ammunition?

Swinging chamber with push through feed and ejection. Its pretty much a go-to system for CTA/CLA weaponry and gives you a relatively compact and simple action.

Aqizithiuda wrote:

Imperializt Russia wrote:I didn't suggest above 300gr, because that seem to be some ways above what rounds in that calibre tend to weigh.

.408 CheyTac?

Isn't that a specialist cartridge made from pure copper?

Tule wrote:

Puzikas wrote:
Thats my job, after all.

Puzikas, I must inquire.

According to most sources I've read, fragmentation does more than leave many small wound channels, It literally shreds and detaches the surrounding flesh from the body.

Top of page 38:

"We suggest that the multiple fragments are likely to cut across many muscle bundles in two places and that the piece between cuts is then likely to be completely detached by the subsequent sudden stretch of the temporary cavitation"

I also remember a post on NSD which included a picture of a human leg hit by a 5.56mm M193 from across a street.
The leg had a fist sized hole in it.

What's your take on that?

Damned drunk Filipino cops.

Puzikas wrote:

Sevvania wrote:Exactly the sort of answer I would expect from former Spetsnaz operative.

Pretty sure I've posted pictures of me before

Specifically never the face, however
You also have a tat which you censor. Unit tat?

The Archangel Conglomerate wrote:Hey, I have a quick question.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that a lead cored FMJ ball round will destabilize and fragment violently if it hits flesh at a high enough velocity.

Is this true?

More than likely. Lead-core rounds practically shatter on hard impact.

Imperializt Russia wrote:

Aqizithiuda wrote:
.408 CheyTac?

Isn't that a specialist cartridge made from pure copper?

So it would be even heavier if it was lead cored instead, given a similar design.

United states of brazilian nations wrote:

Bezombia wrote:(Image)
messks

semi-automatic obrez?
nice.

anyways, question time: i still issue sidearms to all military personnel. what would be the best cartridge to use, .45 ACP, 9mm or .40 S&W, considering not only power but also ammunition capacity and recoil?
for supressed pistols i was thinking .45 ACP as it gives you a heavier bullet and 9mm's higher velocity is negated due to the fact that it's subsonic ammo anyways. however i don't know about the standard-issue handguns.

7.62mm TOKAREV FOR EVERYONE

DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:7.62mm TOKAREV FOR EVERYONE

Indeed.

Tule wrote:

Bhelyant wrote:
The question originally proposed by CA was if 6.5 Grendel would make for a good round for a general issue rifle, so I just assumed that we were all talking about carbines, especially since you made the claim 6.5 G would be a poor performer at short distances.

Not necessarily a poor performer at close range, just a sub-optimal performer at close range.

Central Alkebulan was looking for a cartridge good for close range combat in a jungle environment.

Using the 6.5 Grendel in a jungle environment would be a bit like using a BMW M5 as a city car.

The M5 wouldn't necessarily be a bad city car, but you are much better off with a Ford Fiesta.

7mm UIAC GPC gogogo

Regarding lead balls being outlawed, I wouldn't be surprised. Just remember how large they are. The damage they inflicted was off the fucking Geiger counter. They would literally blow body parts to pieces and not even kill the person.

In fairness, they were typically between 10 and 20mm in diameter and solid lead.

Fordorsia wrote:Regarding lead balls being outlawed, I wouldn't be surprised. Just remember how large they are. The damage they inflicted was off the fucking Geiger counter. They would literally blow shit to pieces and not kill someone outright.

Do continue. There are some of us here who have not signed up to any conventions.

Purpelia wrote:

Fordorsia wrote:Regarding lead balls being outlawed, I wouldn't be surprised. Just remember how large they are. The damage they inflicted was off the fucking Geiger counter. They would literally blow shit to pieces and not kill someone outright.

Do continue. There are some of us here who have not signed up to any conventions.

THey exploded people.

Yes Im Biop wrote:

Purpelia wrote:Do continue. There are some of us here who have not signed up to any conventions.

THey exploded people.

I need a quick run down in 100 words or less how to make, deploy and best employ these in warfare.

Phoenix2012 wrote:Do these look ok?
http://rdstuff.webs.com/apps/photos/pho ... =184320119
http://rdstuff.webs.com/apps/photos/pho ... =184320118
Fires 7.62NATO, 20 rd Mag, 23? in barrel, adjustable stock, sighted to 1500m, Safe, semi, 3round, full, 800-900 rounds/min, Short stroke, rotating bolt for now, Forward assist, rails on top, bottom, sides. What did I leave out?

Sorry, my scanner broke, and yes, I'm a old school guy that does everything by hand....

holy fuck

plox master, teach me how to art

Purpelia wrote:

Fordorsia wrote:Regarding lead balls being outlawed, I wouldn't be surprised. Just remember how large they are. The damage they inflicted was off the fucking Geiger counter. They would literally blow shit to pieces and not kill someone outright.

Do continue. There are some of us here who have not signed up to any conventions.

Not even Comic-Con?

Are not talking about real life? Don't get me wrong, Fordorsia does not abide by any military laws of the world. The closest you'll get to restrictions in Fordorsia's wars are them not carpet-bombing cities or having their troops screaming like egotistical fucks.

Purpelia wrote:

Yes Im Biop wrote:
THey exploded people.

I need a quick run down in 100 words or less how to make, deploy and best employ these in warfare.

By using them in gun's. Preferably ones that shoot.