Main Military Weapon of Your Country: Part 12

[Imperializt Russia]

*snip*

Don't quote adbots pls.

I'm not certain it's an adbot.

[The Order of Takhisis]

HISTORY
The M22 was designed in the 1900’s by the Takhisian military as a replacement for the M20 Rifle. The M20 in its 7.62x39mm caliber did very well in during the period of the time, from the early 1910's to the late 1920's. It was however, decided that the more effective 7.62x51mm was needed, and thus the M22 came into being, although the style of the rifle hadnt overly changed much.

DESIGN
The M22 is based on the late production of the M20 battle rifle. The M22 is essentially the M20 chambered in the 7.62x51mm WA caliber. In order to facilitate the larger caliber the receiver has been lengthened and a longer barrel is fitted. All the features of the M20 have been retained, including the thick stamped receiver. The integral flip up grenade sight is similar to the one on the M20 and in combination with a gas cutoff valve allows for rifle grenades to be launched from the barrel. It is also possible to fit the weapon with an under barrel grenade launcher.

PERFORMANCE
The M22 is a very good battle rifle, being very reliable and reasonably cheap and accurate. It is based on the M20 assault rifle, which was one of the highest quality rifles available to the Takhisian military and knighthood. The M22 features the same reliability, while the more powerful 7.62x51mm WA round increases its effective range significantly. The quality of the production makes the M22 reasonably accurate but it is not in the same league as more modern rifles.

The ergonomics are decent but the weapon is quite heavy. This does result in a relatively mild recoil for a battle rifle. However, the use of automatic fire is still of questionable effectiveness. For this reason, the M22 unlike the M20, has been fitted with controls that consist of the 4-positions safety / mode selector switch on the left side of the receiver.

Available modes are Safe, Single shot,3-rounds bursts and full automatic fire. The cocking handle is attached to the bolt carrier at the right side and does reciprocate with the bolt group when gun is fired. The rear part of the cocking handle slot, cut in the upper receiver for cocking handle, is covered by the spring-loaded cover which automatically opens by the handle when it goes back and automatically closes the opening when cocking handle returns forward.

Standard sights are of open type, with hooded front post and flip-up type diopter rear. Additionally,every M22 rifle has a proprietary scope rail on the top of the receiver, which will accept a variety of day and IR/night scopes. To further it's usages, the M22 can also be turned into a light infantry support weapon with a bi-pod attachment and a 100 round C-Mag.

Weapon Details
Caliber: 7.62x51 mm WA
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt
Overall length: 1074 mm
Barrel length: 536 mm
Weight: 4.3 kg
Rate of fire: 550 - 600 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity: 20 rounds
Extra: The rifle does accept a C-mag of 100 rounds.

[Spreewerke]

Well, giving it a heavier bolt won't make the barrel heat up slower.

Heavier barrel, Or use something that isn't as effected?

A heavy barrel or fluted barrel would help with barrel temperatures. The heavy/bull barrel will take longer to fully heat up, keeping your handguards cooler for longer than a "pencil" barrel. It would also take longer for it to be hot enough that barrel flex became an issue, so it would hold accuracy for a little while longer than a standard/thin barrel.

Fluted barrels are typically heavy barrels to begin with, just with elongated lightening cuts down them. So it'd have pretty much the same characteristics as a heavy barrel, but the fluting gives it a greater surface area, decreasing cooling time slightly. It also means after you make a perfectly good barrel, you have to go over it again with a lathe and mill out the flutes. That takes time and money for slightly faster cool-down times, so most people just stick to heavy/bull barrels as-is. I can see the usefulness of fluted barrels on open-bolt squad-automatics, though, or similar.

[San-Silvacian]

HISTORY
The M22 was designed in the 1900’s by the Takhisian military as a replacement for the M20 Rifle. The M20 in its 7.62x39mm caliber did very well in during the period of the time, from the early 1910's to the late 1920's. It was however, decided that the more effective 7.62x51mm was needed, and thus the M22 came into being, although the style of the rifle hadnt overly changed much.

(Image)

DESIGN
The M22 is based on the late production of the M20 battle rifle. The M22 is essentially the M20 chambered in the 7.62x51mm WA caliber. In order to facilitate the larger caliber the receiver has been lengthened and a longer barrel is fitted. All the features of the M20 have been retained, including the thick stamped receiver. The integral flip up grenade sight is similar to the one on the M20 and in combination with a gas cutoff valve allows for rifle grenades to be launched from the barrel. It is also possible to fit the weapon with an under barrel grenade launcher.

PERFORMANCE
The M22 is a very good battle rifle, being very reliable and reasonably cheap and accurate. It is based on the M20 assault rifle, which was one of the highest quality rifles available to the Takhisian military and knighthood. The M22 features the same reliability, while the more powerful 7.62x51mm WA round increases its effective range significantly. The quality of the production makes the M22 reasonably accurate but it is not in the same league as more modern rifles.

The ergonomics are decent but the weapon is quite heavy. This does result in a relatively mild recoil for a battle rifle. However, the use of automatic fire is still of questionable effectiveness. For this reason, the M22 unlike the M20, has been fitted with controls that consist of the 4-positions safety / mode selector switch on the left side of the receiver.

Available modes are Safe, Single shot,3-rounds bursts and full automatic fire. The cocking handle is attached to the bolt carrier at the right side and does reciprocate with the bolt group when gun is fired. The rear part of the cocking handle slot, cut in the upper receiver for cocking handle, is covered by the spring-loaded cover which automatically opens by the handle when it goes back and automatically closes the opening when cocking handle returns forward.

Standard sights are of open type, with hooded front post and flip-up type diopter rear. Additionally,every M22 rifle has a proprietary scope rail on the top of the receiver, which will accept a variety of day and IR/night scopes. To further it's usages, the M22 can also be turned into a light infantry support weapon with a bi-pod attachment and a 100 round C-Mag.

Weapon Details
Caliber: 7.62x51 mm WA
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt
Overall length: 1074 mm
Barrel length: 536 mm
Weight: 4.3 kg
Rate of fire: 550 - 600 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity: 20 rounds
Extra: The rifle does accept a C-mag of 100 rounds.

How did you get AKs, M70s, 7.62x39mm, 7.62x51mm and all of this before 19-fucking-40.

[Spreewerke]

HISTORY
The M22 was designed in the 1900’s by the Takhisian military as a replacement for the M20 Rifle. The M20 in its 7.62x39mm caliber did very well in during the period of the time, from the early 1910's to the late 1920's.

Umm... M43 came about in 1943.

It was however, decided that the more effective 7.62x51mm was needed, and thus the M22 came into being, although the style of the rifle hadnt overly changed much.

AK wasn't accepted into service until 1949.

(Image)

DESIGN
The M22 is based on the late production of the M20 battle rifle. The M22 is essentially the M20 chambered in the 7.62x51mm WA caliber.

WA? Is this that NS notUN or notNATO or whatever? Alternate reality? What's going on with using cartridges ~20-30 years before they came to be?

In order to facilitate the larger caliber the receiver has been lengthened and a longer barrel is fitted. All the features of the M20 have been retained, including the thick stamped receiver.

That is a milled receiver if ever I saw one.

The integral flip up grenade sight is similar to the one on the M20 and in combination with a gas cutoff valve allows for rifle grenades to be launched from the barrel. It is also possible to fit the weapon with an under barrel grenade launcher.

Feasible; nothing to say here.

PERFORMANCE
The M22 is a very good battle rifle, being very reliable and reasonably cheap and accurate. It is based on the M20 assault rifle, which was one of the highest quality rifles available to the Takhisian military and knighthood. The M22 features the same reliability, while the more powerful 7.62x51mm WA round increases its effective range significantly. The quality of the production makes the M22 reasonably accurate but it is not in the same league as more modern rifles.

The ergonomics are decent but the weapon is quite heavy. This does result in a relatively mild recoil for a battle rifle. However, the use of automatic fire is still of questionable effectiveness. For this reason, the M22 unlike the M20, has been fitted with controls that consist of the 4-positions safety / mode selector switch on the left side of the receiver.

Going full-Tantal? Not bad. I always thought it was a neat system, myself, even if it meant no side-mounted optics.

Available modes are Safe, Single shot,3-rounds bursts and full automatic fire. The cocking handle is attached to the bolt carrier at the right side and does reciprocate with the bolt group when gun is fired. The rear part of the cocking handle slot, cut in the upper receiver for cocking handle, is covered by the spring-loaded cover which automatically opens by the handle when it goes back and automatically closes the opening when cocking handle returns forward.

Way too needlessly complex. Just use the Tantal system right-out since the selector on the right-hand side doubles as a dust cover/safety. Put your fire selector on desired setting, take safety/dustcover off/down when firing.

Standard sights are of open type, with hooded front post and flip-up type diopter rear. Additionally,every M22 rifle has a proprietary scope rail on the top of the receiver, which will accept a variety of day and IR/night scopes.

Who needs accuracy?

To further it's usages, the M22 can also be turned into a light infantry support weapon with a bi-pod attachment and a 100 round C-Mag.

A 100-round C-Mag in 7.62 NATO is going to be massive.

Weapon Details
Caliber: 7.62x51 mm WA
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt
Overall length: 1074 mm
Barrel length: 536 mm
Weight: 4.3 kg
Rate of fire: 550 - 600 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity: 20 rounds
Extra: The rifle does accept a C-mag of 100 rounds.

Again, C-Mag gon' be huge.

[Black Hand]

A 100-round C-Mag in 7.62 NATO is going to be massive.

Here ya go Spree

[Aqizithiuda]

Overly complex? Expensive? All falls to shit if there's fouling? Issues with the bolt welding itself inside the chamber after prolonged periods of fire?

This sounds exactly like a semi-auto rifle from that era.

Good. But you forgot goddamned heavy.
Though what do you mean by welding? Getting stuck due to deformation or actual welding? Because that could be mitigiated by using a diffrent alloy for the bolts and/or different surface treatment.

Both.

[Bezombia]

Imagine this in a magwell that's not also a grip.

Purp this solves your mag problem.

[Purpelia]

Purp this solves your mag problem.

It really doesn't. If anything it makes it worse as now the magazine is even fatter than a regular drum. But I have found my own solution to the issue. And it is brilliant let me tell you. I just need to fact check one thing. I have heard that some magazines are designed to easily clip together sideways for carrying. Is that true? And if so how?

Heavier barrel, Or use something that isn't as effected?

A heavy barrel or fluted barrel would help with barrel temperatures. The heavy/bull barrel will take longer to fully heat up, keeping your handguards cooler for longer than a "pencil" barrel. It would also take longer for it to be hot enough that barrel flex became an issue, so it would hold accuracy for a little while longer than a standard/thin barrel.

Fluted barrels are typically heavy barrels to begin with, just with elongated lightening cuts down them. So it'd have pretty much the same characteristics as a heavy barrel, but the fluting gives it a greater surface area, decreasing cooling time slightly. It also means after you make a perfectly good barrel, you have to go over it again with a lathe and mill out the flutes. That takes time and money for slightly faster cool-down times, so most people just stick to heavy/bull barrels as-is. I can see the usefulness of fluted barrels on open-bolt squad-automatics, though, or similar.

Have any images of fluted barrels?

[Spreewerke]

Purp this solves your mag problem.

It really doesn't. If anything it makes it worse as now the magazine is even fatter than a regular drum. But I have found my own solution to the issue. And it is brilliant let me tell you. I just need to fact check one thing. I have heard that some magazines are designed to easily clip together sideways for carrying. Is that true? And if so how?

http://www.westford86.com/sales/Sig_AR_ ... G_6023.jpg

Dovetails.

[Purpelia]

It really doesn't. If anything it makes it worse as now the magazine is even fatter than a regular drum. But I have found my own solution to the issue. And it is brilliant let me tell you. I just need to fact check one thing. I have heard that some magazines are designed to easily clip together sideways for carrying. Is that true? And if so how?

http://www.westford86.com/sales/Sig_AR_ ... G_6023.jpg

Thanks. Now I just have to mount those things right...

[Bezombia]

Purp this solves your mag problem.

It really doesn't. If anything it makes it worse as now the magazine is even fatter than a regular drum. But I have found my own solution to the issue. And it is brilliant let me tell you. I just need to fact check one thing. I have heard that some magazines are designed to easily clip together sideways for carrying. Is that true? And if so how?

One side has a male "plug", and one side has a female "notch", which looks like this:

[Black Hand]

It really doesn't. If anything it makes it worse as now the magazine is even fatter than a regular drum. But I have found my own solution to the issue. And it is brilliant let me tell you. I just need to fact check one thing. I have heard that some magazines are designed to easily clip together sideways for carrying. Is that true? And if so how?

One side has a male "plug", and one side has a female "notch", which looks like this:

The fact you posted a pair of Airsoft magazines doesn't help.
(the G36 mags do function as such however)

[Purpelia]

I need a quick logic check from you people. On a scale from 1 to 10 where 1 is completely false and 10 completely true how would you rate the following train of thought:

PDV's are weapons that are inherently designed for troops that are not supposed to be using them all that often. But the few times they are called to do so are generally very stressful and require quick reactions. If your tank is hit, the field kitchen you are working on is attacked or your barracks is overrun you won't have the time to carefully pick up all your spare ammo and equipment. Instead you will just grab your helmet and your gun and proceed into action as quickly as is possible. Thus more often than not (especially with vehicle crew) you will be stuck with what ever ammo was loaded in your weapon at the time. Hence high capacity magazines are a very good idea.

So, 1 to 10?

[Bezombia]

I need a quick logic check from you people. On a scale from 1 to 10 where 1 is completely false and 10 completely true how would you rate the following train of thought:

PDV's are weapons that are inherently designed for troops that are not supposed to be using them all that often. But the few times they are called to do so are generally very stressful and require quick reactions. If your tank is hit, the field kitchen you are working on is attacked or your barracks is overrun you won't have the time to carefully pick up all your spare ammo and equipment. Instead you will just grab your helmet and your gun and proceed into action as quickly as is possible. Thus more often than not (especially with vehicle crew) you will be stuck with what ever ammo was loaded in your weapon at the time. Hence high capacity magazines are a very good idea.

So, 1 to 10?

8 because that isn't always true.

See aircraft. Your plane is hit, a couple spare mags strapped to your person wouldn't be completely bad.
But in your theoretical situation yes, mostly.1

[Spreewerke]

I need a quick logic check from you people. On a scale from 1 to 10 where 1 is completely false and 10 completely true how would you rate the following train of thought:

PDV's are weapons that are inherently designed for troops that are not supposed to be using them all that often. But the few times they are called to do so are generally very stressful and require quick reactions. If your tank is hit, the field kitchen you are working on is attacked or your barracks is overrun you won't have the time to carefully pick up all your spare ammo and equipment. Instead you will just grab your helmet and your gun and proceed into action as quickly as is possible. Thus more often than not (especially with vehicle crew) you will be stuck with what ever ammo was loaded in your weapon at the time. Hence high capacity magazines are a very good idea.

So, 1 to 10?

If you're wearing a vest (be it bulletproof or not), you can have magazine pouches sewn into it. Just keep it on with your magazines. Shit hits the fan? Pick up rifle, engage kebab. Asleep in your undies? Throw on vest, throw on helmet, grab rifle, liberate the natives.

[Black Hand]

I need a quick logic check from you people. On a scale from 1 to 10 where 1 is completely false and 10 completely true how would you rate the following train of thought:

PDV's are weapons that are inherently designed for troops that are not supposed to be using them all that often. But the few times they are called to do so are generally very stressful and require quick reactions. If your tank is hit, the field kitchen you are working on is attacked or your barracks is overrun you won't have the time to carefully pick up all your spare ammo and equipment. Instead you will just grab your helmet and your gun and proceed into action as quickly as is possible. Thus more often than not (especially with vehicle crew) you will be stuck with what ever ammo was loaded in your weapon at the time. Hence high capacity magazines are a very good idea.

So, 1 to 10?

8
your logic isn't flawed. It would be a good idea to have a reasonably high capacity magazine. In the Case of Vehicle crews look at what Risen Britannia did with his bail out box. high cap mags are a yes, I like casket mags.

[Imperializt Russia]

I need a quick logic check from you people. On a scale from 1 to 10 where 1 is completely false and 10 completely true how would you rate the following train of thought:

PDV's are weapons that are inherently designed for troops that are not supposed to be using them all that often. But the few times they are called to do so are generally very stressful and require quick reactions. If your tank is hit, the field kitchen you are working on is attacked or your barracks is overrun you won't have the time to carefully pick up all your spare ammo and equipment. Instead you will just grab your helmet and your gun and proceed into action as quickly as is possible. Thus more often than not (especially with vehicle crew) you will be stuck with what ever ammo was loaded in your weapon at the time. Hence high capacity magazines are a very good idea.

So, 1 to 10?

Certainly aircrew and probably tankers have grab bags to collect in the event of their vehicle being hit. Apache aircrew in the UK forces are issued with a 30-round magazine of tracer for their L22 carbines, to mark targets for their wingmen. Fairly certain that additional ammunition for personal use is an additional thing. Grenades are prohibited, even smoke, but sometimes carried anyway.

It's not really done for probably a plethora of reasons, but tankers could probably strap a couple of pistol magazines about their person for a pistol-calibre defensive weapon - such as the M3 or L2, both still issued in the Gulf War.

I am a proponent that, though helical magazines themselves are more difficult to store, that they are better to store on a loaded weapon than a box magazine - and also offering more ammunition when loaded. One helical magazine loaded and one in a grab bag might well total the ammunition offered by one standard-size box magazine loaded and four in pouches - which is usually Aqi's argument against them.

[Purpelia]

I am mainly asking because I don't want to impose strict dress codes on my tank crews in the respect that I don't think it's a good idea to force them to sit around in full combat gear, armor, helmet and everything that weighs like 40kg or something inside their tanks. The things will be cramped as it is so I just don't think I could enforce such a rule effectively. And of course due to the fact that images of WW2 tank crews driving around in barely anything are cool, and translate well to my particular brand of tankers. So when the autoloader starts crackling like a roman candle they might not have their webbing on.

And whilst grab pouches are a good idea they are only worth it if you can get into cover, open the pouch and rummage around to find what you need. Not if you need to charge out of a now burning tank whilst the guys that set it on fire are chasing you.

[Bezombia]

I am mainly asking because I don't want to impose strict dress codes on my tank crews in the respect that I don't think it's a good idea to force them to sit around in full combat gear, armor, helmet and everything that weighs like 40kg or something inside their tanks. The things will be cramped as it is so I just don't think I could enforce such a rule effectively. And of course due to the fact that images of WW2 tank crews driving around in barely anything are cool, and translate well to my particular brand of tankers. So when the autoloader starts crackling like a roman candle they might not have their webbing on.

And whilst grab pouches are a good idea they are only worth it if you can get into cover, open the pouch and rummage around to find what you need. Not if you need to charge out of a now burning tank whilst the guys that set it on fire are chasing you.

M1 Carbine had a pouch on the stock of the rifle to hold two magazines, so if you only managed to take your carbine you'd have sixty one rounds on you.

[Purpelia]

I am mainly asking because I don't want to impose strict dress codes on my tank crews in the respect that I don't think it's a good idea to force them to sit around in full combat gear, armor, helmet and everything that weighs like 40kg or something inside their tanks. The things will be cramped as it is so I just don't think I could enforce such a rule effectively. And of course due to the fact that images of WW2 tank crews driving around in barely anything are cool, and translate well to my particular brand of tankers. So when the autoloader starts crackling like a roman candle they might not have their webbing on.

And whilst grab pouches are a good idea they are only worth it if you can get into cover, open the pouch and rummage around to find what you need. Not if you need to charge out of a now burning tank whilst the guys that set it on fire are chasing you.

M1 Carbine had a pouch on the stock of the rifle to hold two magazines, so if you only managed to take your carbine you'd have sixty one rounds on you.

I had a similar idea for my new weapon. Basically I'd make the mags clip-on like those I asked about. And I would attach a clip on either side of the stock. That way you could slide one mag on either side of the stock and thus store the weapon with 3 mags locked to it at all times.

[Imperializt Russia]

All three crew will have a short-barrel Carbine in a shoulder holster, loaded with one magazine. I'm thinking they really shouldn't be wearing webbing when inside the vehicle, and putting it on after leaving the vehicle might be difficult.

So what I'm considering is giving the Commander an SHTF bag, which has loaded magazines in clip-on pouches that will clip somewhere onto their gear when they leave the vehicle.

For the record, I'm aware that that's probably already an overdone idea.

[Black Hand]

M1 Carbine had a pouch on the stock of the rifle to hold two magazines, so if you only managed to take your carbine you'd have sixty one rounds on you.

I had a similar idea for my new weapon. Basically I'd make the mags clip-on like those I asked about. And I would attach a clip on either side of the stock. That way you could slide one mag on either side of the stock and thus store the weapon with 3 mags locked to it at all times.

if it's not bullpup, then issue a hollow polymer stock.

[Bezombia]

M1 Carbine had a pouch on the stock of the rifle to hold two magazines, so if you only managed to take your carbine you'd have sixty one rounds on you.

I had a similar idea for my new weapon. Basically I'd make the mags clip-on like those I asked about. And I would attach a clip on either side of the stock. That way you could store the weapon with 3 mags locked to it at all times.

Or you could use casket magazines and not have to reaload.


I'll see if I can find the link, but apparently the AK-74M's casket magazine was the result of a soviet study that everyone was taping a second mag to their loaded one, and a single casket would be lighter than two standard mags.

[Purpelia]

I had a similar idea for my new weapon. Basically I'd make the mags clip-on like those I asked about. And I would attach a clip on either side of the stock. That way you could slide one mag on either side of the stock and thus store the weapon with 3 mags locked to it at all times.

if it's not bullpup, then issue a hollow polymer stock.

Of course it is a bullpup. Even my handguns are.

I had a similar idea for my new weapon. Basically I'd make the mags clip-on like those I asked about. And I would attach a clip on either side of the stock. That way you could store the weapon with 3 mags locked to it at all times.

Or you could use casket magazines and not have to reaload.


I'll see if I can find the link, but apparently the AK-74M's casket magazine was the result of a soviet study that everyone was taping a second mag to their loaded one, and a single casket would be lighter than two standard mags.

As has been said, I don't do caskets. It's a personal thing. Just like how I don't do radial engines after the 1920's.