Main Military Weapon of Your Country: Part 12

[Kouralia]

We have already been over the pistol thing and its been established pistols serve no purpose issued to general infantry riflemen.

All depends on the universe.

mm-hmm, some units in the Kouralian Corps of Infantry receive specially manufactured, 13mm select-fire Anemosian pistols. We're thinking of looking for a deal with the Absolute Royal Federation to receive specialist ammunition for them. That should enhance our anti-demon capabilities even further.

Page 117

[United Republics of Aralon]

But a main rifle is less practical in some certain situations. For example using it single handedly or in very confined spaces is problematic.
The tradeoff is not so simple. Yes rifle ammo is more useful in most cases, but sometimes the rifle just won't do good and then you are going to need that handgun badly.

We have already been over the pistol thing and its been established pistols serve no purpose issued to general infantry riflemen.

Yes,though IIRC Beno said in an other post that he did not actually issue any pistols only as optionals for aircraft pilots. For GI there is no need,but medics or vehicle crews or GPMG orperators could benefit from having a sidearm, I think.

[Aqizithiuda]

Roller locked blowback.
Similar to the G3, but instead of having a massive spring above the barrel it has two slightly smaller springs adjacent to the bolt.

Hm... that gets me thinking. Do you think I could get away with strait blowback for a SMG firing my new and improved round?
The PPSh does it but it fires a non hot light round.

Work out the bolt weight and see if it makes your PDW too heavy: http://www.orions-hammer.com/blowback/

What does that have to do with an operating mechanism?

Advanced Primer Ignition. It's a type of blowback. The best way to describe it is that every round is forced to preignite. The chamber is smaller than the cartridge and the powder starts burning before the bolt reaches full forward position.

Supposedly has low RoF compared to straight blowback, and handles higher pressures better than straight blowback (but not SO great as to be possible with full rifle rounds).

API has a faster RoF than plain blowback and handles more powerful rounds, not higher pressure cartridges. And, for the millionth time, it HATES WEAPONS WITH SHORT, SHARP SHOULDERS!

Couple of quick questions before I retire to bed.

FNP90's, with special forces. Lead would also have a P99 sidearm and each with Katars for backup - Would this allow for a balanced team if additions were made for mission parameters.

Second.
Ten man squads with SCAR-Hs, two Smaws and a Pancor Jackhammer. Appropriate for a general operation?

No and no.

Largo has the benefit of being used by Denmark, but 9.8 Browning sounds intriguing even if I have no idea what it is.

Oh boy, Puz gets to know an obscure cartridge for once!

9.8mm Browning (alternative, 9.8 Colt, 9.8 European, 9.65 browning) was a very little-known cartridge developed by John Browning and Colt in the early 1900s as a, for lack of better term, .45ACP analog for the European market. It was in the 1911 platform but smaller, about 85% the size of a standard full frame 1911. It fired a 140-142 grain (two sources conflict) .381 inch bullet at about 320 meters per second or so. A few Baltic states took interest but ultimately went with a cheaper Styer design, and with the US military choosing to use .45ACP, the project was scrapped. The load I use is slightly hotter, 145gr at 340m/s. It would produce less recoil than .45, closer to a midway between .40 and 9mm really, and have a pretty good terminal profile. I'm debating if I want to use it in the modern time or not, but it looked like a pretty promising round.


To add new information from sources:

There were actually several loads of it, not just the 140, so it seems 142 was likely an additional load.

Loads included 115gr, 120, 130, 140, 142, 150 and 160. I guess it went through a a few changes depending on the country it was being trialed in (Romania, Serbia, France...). Measurement: 9.65x23mm.

Do you know if the Germans ever trialled/experimented with it?

[Puzikas]

I think they may have.

[Aqizithiuda]

I think they may have.

Do you know roughly when? Diecasters Ltd mentioned that the Germans experimented post-WW1 with a round similar to the .45 ACP and it's been bugging me ever since I read that.

[Puzikas]

I think they may have.

Do you know roughly when? Diecasters Ltd mentioned that the Germans experimented post-WW1 with a round similar to the .45 ACP and it's been bugging me ever since I read that.

It would be pre-WWI, C. 1906-1911 era.

[Aqizithiuda]

Do you know roughly when? Diecasters Ltd mentioned that the Germans experimented post-WW1 with a round similar to the .45 ACP and it's been bugging me ever since I read that.

It would be pre-WWI, C. 1906-1911 era.

Well, that rules it out, then. A shame, but it's good to know a new cartridge at the same time.

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

Work out the bolt weight and see if it makes your PDW too heavy: http://www.orions-hammer.com/blowback

According to Arch Pseudo-math ^TM, a straight blowback bolt for the 4.6x26mm GwPat-80 cartridge would only be .635kg. That's .35kg lighter than my assumed weight for the leaver delayed bolt.

So, what kind of fire rates could I conceivably get from a straight blowback system?

[Puzikas]

Work out the bolt weight and see if it makes your PDW too heavy: http://www.orions-hammer.com/blowback

According to Arch Pseudo-math ^TM, a straight blowback bolt for the 4.6x26mm GwPat-80 cartridge would only be .635kg. That's .35kg lighter than my assumed weight for the leaver delayed bolt.

So, what kind of fire rates could I conceivably get from a straight blowback system?

I've seen everything from 450-1200.

[Imperializt Russia]

Work out the bolt weight and see if it makes your PDW too heavy: http://www.orions-hammer.com/blowback

According to Arch Pseudo-math ^TM, a straight blowback bolt for the 4.6x26mm GwPat-80 cartridge would only be .635kg. That's .35kg lighter than my assumed weight for the leaver delayed bolt.

So, what kind of fire rates could I conceivably get from a straight blowback system?

How have you got 635g bolt weight?
There was an MG42 variant with a bolt weight of that.

[United states of brazilian nations]

(Image)
messks

semi-automatic obrez?
nice.

anyways, question time: i still issue sidearms to all military personnel. what would be the best cartridge to use, .45 ACP, 9mm or .40 S&W, considering not only power but also ammunition capacity and recoil?
for supressed pistols i was thinking .45 ACP as it gives you a heavier bullet and 9mm's higher velocity is negated due to the fact that it's subsonic ammo anyways. however i don't know about the standard-issue handguns.

[Yes Im Biop]

You must benoize it!

I REGRET NOTHING!

[Aqizithiuda]

Work out the bolt weight and see if it makes your PDW too heavy: http://www.orions-hammer.com/blowback

According to Arch Pseudo-math ^TM, a straight blowback bolt for the 4.6x26mm GwPat-80 cartridge would only be .635kg. That's .35kg lighter than my assumed weight for the leaver delayed bolt.

So, what kind of fire rates could I conceivably get from a straight blowback system?

I think the source material (Chinn's 'The Machine Gun - Volume IV') might cover that and tell you how to work it out.

(Image)
messks

semi-automatic obrez?
nice.

anyways, question time: i still issue sidearms to all military personnel. what would be the best cartridge to use, .45 ACP, 9mm or .40 S&W, considering not only power but also ammunition capacity and recoil?
for supressed pistols i was thinking .45 ACP as it gives you a heavier bullet and 9mm's higher velocity is negated due to the fact that it's subsonic ammo anyways. however i don't know about the standard-issue handguns.

The 9x19mm is most definitely supersonic. Really, there's not much of a difference between the three rounds, except in terms of capacity.

[Kouralia]

KourObrez BestObrez



(It normally comes senza-stock)

[Ea90]

9mm's higher velocity is negated due to the fact that it's subsonic ammo

wut
This literally makes zero sense.

[Yes Im Biop]

(Image)
messks

9mm's higher velocity is negated due to the fact that it's subsonic ammo

...
...
...
What?

[Purpelia]

Back to my round. Do you guys think that one could actually fire it safely from a handgun?

[United states of brazilian nations]

semi-automatic obrez?
nice.

anyways, question time: i still issue sidearms to all military personnel. what would be the best cartridge to use, .45 ACP, 9mm or .40 S&W, considering not only power but also ammunition capacity and recoil?
for supressed pistols i was thinking .45 ACP as it gives you a heavier bullet and 9mm's higher velocity is negated due to the fact that it's subsonic ammo anyways. however i don't know about the standard-issue handguns.

The 9x19mm is most definitely supersonic. Really, there's not much of a difference between the three rounds, except in terms of capacity.

i know it's supersonic, but those rounds they make for use with supressors are subsonic. so if it's subsonic anyways, you wanna go with the heavier, most hard-hitting bullet.

EDIT: yeah, i know it sounded like i was saying 9mm is subsonic. sorry, i'm still learning english
i know i don't know much about firearms, but i'm not THAT stupid.

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

I've seen everything from 450-1200.

Well, if that's the case then I may be able to do the straight blowback that I had wanted in the beginning.

---

How have you got 635g bolt weight?

The equation on the sight Aqiz linked to.
1.09x10^-5 x the projectile weight (41gr) x projectile velocity (3300fps)

There was an MG42 variant with a bolt weight of that.

Neat.

---

I think the source material (Chinn's 'The Machine Gun - Volume IV') might cover that and tell you how to work it out.

Probably. I just skimmed the straight blowback section and cried at all of the symbols.

[Aqizithiuda]

Back to my round. Do you guys think that one could actually fire it safely from a handgun?

Yes.

I've seen everything from 450-1200.

Well, if that's the case then I may be able to do the straight blowback that I had wanted in the beginning.

---

How have you got 635g bolt weight?

The equation on the sight Aqiz linked to.
1.09x10^-5 x the projectile weight (41gr) x projectile velocity (3300fps)

There was an MG42 variant with a bolt weight of that.

Neat.

---

I think the source material (Chinn's 'The Machine Gun - Volume IV') might cover that and tell you how to work it out.

Probably. I just skimmed the straight blowback section and cried at all of the symbols.

I did the same with the API section. That's why I never created the API rifle I was going to.

[Purpelia]

Yes.

Excellent. My 13th Special Police Battalion needed a new sidearm... Something to kill the unpurpelian ones with.

[Bezombia]

(Image)
messks

semi-automatic obrez?
nice.

FULL auto.

anyways, question time: i still issue sidearms to all military personnel. what would be the best cartridge to use, .45 ACP, 9mm or .40 S&W

None because no pistols > pistols.
But if you must, someone in this thread whose name starts with the letter P has a 7.62x25 on heroin that thinks its an intermediate.

9mm's higher velocity is negated due to the fact that it's subsonic ammo anyways.

fail

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

I did the same with the API section. That's why I never created the API rifle I was going to.

Heh. It's good to know that someone else is in the same boat as I.

So, assuming all goes to plan, I can shave ~350g of of my rifle's empty weight, leaving me with 2.35kg unloaded.

My assault rifle is now lighter than most MP5 models.

[Purpelia]

Where did you get these numbers anyway? I might need to start looking into them for my own design.

[United states of brazilian nations]

semi-automatic obrez?
nice.

FULL auto.

anyways, question time: i still issue sidearms to all military personnel. what would be the best cartridge to use, .45 ACP, 9mm or .40 S&W

None because no pistols > pistols.
But if you must, someone in this thread whose name starts with the letter P has a 7.62x25 on heroin that thinks its an intermediate.

9mm's higher velocity is negated due to the fact that it's subsonic ammo anyways.

fail

1- holy shit, who's handling that? Chuck Norris? however i can't negate that it is badass.
2- 7.62x25 +P+ or something similar?
3- fail indeed. however i already made a post to clear things up, i was talking about subsonic ammo in particular. so if you use subsonic ammo, a subsonic 9mm is no faster than .45 ACP, and .45 ACP is heavier which means it has more kinetic energy which translates into better power.
however, i recognnize the way i said it led almost everybody to think i was saying 9mm is subsonic. well, i didn't chose the right words. but c'mon, i'm not THAT retarded.
now that i look at it, i almost thought the same. i deserve a facepalm.
or better, a double facepalm.
screw it, just gimme the mess rock.