Main Military Weapon of Your Country: Part 12

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

I'd recommend short stroke piston tbh. A good compromise between reliability and recoil. If I were to name my top 3 types of action for a service rifle, they'd be:

1. Short stroke piston
2. Long stroke piston
3. Direct impingement

EDIT: The number of top page posts I'm getting is hilarious

[Bhelyant]

Direct impingment, tilting breechblock

best action ever.

Would you mind quantifying why a tilting lock is best?
unless you were being sarcastic >.<

post relevant

[Bezombia]

I'd recommend short stroke piston tbh. A good compromise between reliability and recoil. If I were to name my top 3 types of action for a service rifle, they'd be:

1. Short stroke piston
2. Long stroke piston
3. Direct impingement

1. Blowback (any form)
2. Long Stroke
3. Short Stroke

There's really only four or five options.

[Aqizithiuda]

Case weight definitely seems off. Does the projectile weight include the weight of the sabot?

I did a steel disk, 7.5x7mm I think...

Does 3.5g sound better?

No sabot this time. I was thinking about it (and I may still).

Yes. I just finished calculating that 5.7x28mm brass will weigh roughly 3.9 grams

Ah, so it's just a plain microcaliber round?

right now, it just has a simplified action. I'm thinking about using something other than the rotating bolt, which, as I understand, is quite hard and costly to manufacture. I'm also using a 500mm barrel for the normal battle rifle, a 405mm for carbine, and a 590mm for marksman. Also added rails on top, bottom and sides, and added a forward assist and a HK G3 charging mechanism. So, no it isn't a FAL, but it's based on one. I'm just going to call it a IBR (Infantry Battle Rifle) for now.

Rotating bolts are quite simple to make if you do it right (eg: the T2 Mk5's bolt).

snip

See the edit

I posted before the edit, so I still say you were wrong .

I'd recommend short stroke piston tbh. A good compromise between reliability and recoil. If I were to name my top 3 types of action for a service rifle, they'd be:

1. Short stroke piston
2. Long stroke piston
3. Direct impingement

My personal opinion:

1) Long stroke
2) DI
3) Short stroke

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

I'd recommend short stroke piston tbh. A good compromise between reliability and recoil. If I were to name my top 3 types of action for a service rifle, they'd be:

1. Short stroke piston
2. Long stroke piston
3. Direct impingement

1. Blowback (any form)
2. Long Stroke
3. Short Stroke

There's really only four or five options.

There are a lot of bells and whistles about gas operation compared to blowback imo. For example, RPM tuning and shutoff for low powered rounds or long range fire.

[Premislyd]

Direct impingment, tilting breechblock

best action ever.

Would you mind quantifying why a tilting lock is best?

Ljungman and FAL used it

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

I did a steel disk, 7.5x7mm I think...

Does 3.5g sound better?

No sabot this time. I was thinking about it (and I may still).

Yes. I just finished calculating that 5.7x28mm brass will weigh roughly 3.9 grams

Ah, so it's just a plain microcaliber round?

right now, it just has a simplified action. I'm thinking about using something other than the rotating bolt, which, as I understand, is quite hard and costly to manufacture. I'm also using a 500mm barrel for the normal battle rifle, a 405mm for carbine, and a 590mm for marksman. Also added rails on top, bottom and sides, and added a forward assist and a HK G3 charging mechanism. So, no it isn't a FAL, but it's based on one. I'm just going to call it a IBR (Infantry Battle Rifle) for now.

Rotating bolts are quite simple to make if you do it right (eg: the T2 Mk5's bolt).

See the edit

I posted before the edit, so I still say you were wrong .

I'd recommend short stroke piston tbh. A good compromise between reliability and recoil. If I were to name my top 3 types of action for a service rifle, they'd be:

1. Short stroke piston
2. Long stroke piston
3. Direct impingement

My personal opinion:

1) Long stroke
2) DI
3) Short stroke

Why do people hate short stroke so much

I virtually see no benefits with DI other than recoil. Reliability is piss poor.

[Premislyd]

I virtually see no benefits with DI other than recoil. Reliability is piss poor.

Except it isn't. Maybe if you would, gee I don't know, research, the operating system (long shot, but eh, worth a shot) you'd find that it's actually pretty reliable.

[Fordorsia]

Obviously the best action to use is whatever the FordFAL uses, and that is a secret because I don't even know what it uses. It's secrets are more lost than someone who isn't from Ulfheim trying to explore Ulfheim.



Words can't describe how much I love the Mk.8 with wooden furniture.

[Bhelyant]

Ljungman and FAL used it

So a couple examples, but not really any quantifiable advantage?

I virtually see no benefits with DI other than recoil. Reliability is piss poor.

The Mas-49 and Hakim that would like to have a word with you.

[Premislyd]

Ljungman and FAL used it

So a couple examples, but not really any quantifiable advantage?

Maybe if you would use up your own time to read up on it instead of making somebody explain something that's easily accessible (this is the internet after all), you could learn yourself why.

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

Yes. I just finished calculating that 5.7x28mm brass will weigh roughly 3.9 grams

Steel is heavier, or lighter than brass?
IIRC the metel is heavier, but the cases are lighter...

Ah, so it's just a plain microcaliber round?

For now, yeah. It was meant to be more of my take on the 4.6mm MKR. It accidentally ended up largely being a rip.
I may neck it up to 7mm for saboting's sake for a FUTURSOLDIER20XX project, but I'm happy with the performance for now.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

I virtually see no benefits with DI other than recoil. Reliability is piss poor.

Except it isn't. Maybe if you would, gee I don't know, research, the operating system (long shot, but eh, worth a shot) you'd find that it's actually pretty reliable.

Comrade,

Can you ride on M16 with tank, drag through sand and stick in mud pool, then pull out and fire? No comrade, you cannot, because M16 is pig dog capitalist, Western gun of shit.

[Bezombia]

1. Blowback (any form)
2. Long Stroke
3. Short Stroke

There's really only four or five options.

There are a lot of bells and whistles about gas operation compared to blowback imo. For example, RPM tuning and shutoff for low powered rounds or long range fire.

Gas operation needs a shutoff valve just to match blowback.
Do you know why the valve is present? It's there to stop the tapping of gasses that detract from performance. Blowback doesn't tap gasses, and thus always has the long range fire capabilities a similar gas would have when shut off.
Also, blowbacks gain more of a benefit from free-floating barrels, and are thus inherently more accurate.
Also G3

[Premislyd]

Except it isn't. Maybe if you would, gee I don't know, research, the operating system (long shot, but eh, worth a shot) you'd find that it's actually pretty reliable.

Comrade,

Can you ride on M16 with tank, drag through sand and stick in mud pool, then pull out and fire? No comrade, you cannot, because M16 is pig dog capitalist, Western gun of shit.

Except you can.

[Aqizithiuda]

Why do people hate short stroke so much

I virtually see no benefits with DI other than recoil. Reliability is piss poor.

*mutters under his breath and curses the gods for allowing internet misinformation*

DI is perfectly reliable when used with hot, clean burning propellants. Some of the most reliable service rifles in the world have used DI without a hitch, and even the original Dutch msde AR-10 was known for being a damn reliable gun in harsh conditions.

DI offers a reduction in weight and recoil, as well as a slight increase in theoretical accuracy.

Now, while there is absolutely nothing wrong with short stroke weapons, and while there are several highly reliable short stroke designs out there, my personal opinion is that if I'm not going with a slight increase in reliability, I should reduce weight, recoil and mechanical complexity, hence going straight to DI.

Yes. I just finished calculating that 5.7x28mm brass will weigh roughly 3.9 grams

Steel is heavier, or lighter than brass?
IIRC the metel is heavier, but the cases are lighter...

Ah, so it's just a plain microcaliber round?

For now, yeah. It was meant to be more of my take on the 4.6mm MKR. It accidentally ended up largely being a rip.
I may neck it up to 7mm for saboting's sake for a FUTURSOLDIER20XX project, but I'm happy with the performance for now.

Steel is lighter.

Now I'm unsure of how accurate those performance results are. Remember, the MKR had a lighter bullet and another 100mm of barrel length over your rifle.

There are a lot of bells and whistles about gas operation compared to blowback imo. For example, RPM tuning and shutoff for low powered rounds or long range fire.

Gas operation needs a shutoff valve just to match blowback.
Do you know why the valve is present? It's there to stop the tapping of gasses that detract from performance. Blowback doesn't tap gasses, and thus always has the long range fire capabilities a similar gas would have when shut off.
Also, blowbacks gain more of a benefit from free-floating barrels, and are thus inherently more accurate.
Also G3

Delayed blowback rifles can't be adjusted for harsh environments, have harsh extraction and, I believe, often have sharper recoil.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Comrade,

Can you ride on M16 with tank, drag through sand and stick in mud pool, then pull out and fire? No comrade, you cannot, because M16 is pig dog capitalist, Western gun of shit.

Except you can.

Um. No. The gas tube would just get filled with shit and jam.

[Kouralia]

Except you can.

Um. No. The gas tube would just get filled with shit and jam.

Lolwut

[Bhelyant]

So a couple examples, but not really any quantifiable advantage?

Maybe if you would use up your own time to read up on it instead of making somebody explain something that's easily accessible (this is the internet after all), you could learn yourself why.

Lol, what the hell did I do wrong now? Damn. All I did was ask a question.

I have previously looked it up, and the only places I had found discussing the merits of rotating bolts vs. tilting bolts were on forums by other users, and one of the threads was on a website for white supremacists so I had elected not to put much merit into it. Anyways, the places I've looked at said that a rotating bolt will allow a system to be lighter, recoil less, and allow the firearm to be more accurate by having more consistent bolt lock up throughout the firearms service life. All I did was ask for some sort of clarification on why a tilting bolt is better when everything I've read has argued otherwise. -.-

[San-Silvacian]

Except it isn't. Maybe if you would, gee I don't know, research, the operating system (long shot, but eh, worth a shot) you'd find that it's actually pretty reliable.

Comrade,

Can you ride on M16 with tank, drag through sand and stick in mud pool, then pull out and fire? No comrade, you cannot, because M16 is pig dog capitalist, Western gun of shit.

dem mad hacks

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Um. No. The gas tube would just get filled with shit and jam.

Lolwut

Well, good job producing what appears to be a commercial for a custom / aftermarket DI rifle that has jammed or misfired and had to be cleaned, how many times now?

[Premislyd]

Lolwut

Well, good job producing what appears to be a commercial for a custom / aftermarket DI rifle that has jammed or misfired and had to be cleaned, how many times now?

Except it wasn't.

[Kouralia]

Lolwut

Well, good job producing what appears to be a commercial for a custom / aftermarket DI rifle that has jammed or misfired and had to be cleaned, how many times now?

Well, good job producing no evidence whatsoever to support your point.

Are you honestly trying to say that what you just watched was some kind of 'standard shit' the AK would sail through and then laugh at, comparatively to the DD rifle?

[Crookfur]

There are a lot of bells and whistles about gas operation compared to blowback imo. For example, RPM tuning and shutoff for low powered rounds or long range fire.

Gas operation needs a shutoff valve just to match blowback.
Do you know why the valve is present? It's there to stop the tapping of gasses that detract from performance. Blowback doesn't tap gasses, and thus always has the long range fire capabilities a similar gas would have when shut off.
Also, blowbacks gain more of a benefit from free-floating barrels, and are thus inherently more accurate.
Also G3

See all that extra gas you obsess about.

IT MAKES NO MEASURABLE DIFFERENCE

Really the round to round variances inherent in large scale ammunition production will make a bigger difference as will the weather and a host of other factors.

Really any advantages of a delayed blowback only come into play in any siognificant way when you are dealing with VERY expensive precision rifles.

[Spreewerke]

right now, it just has a simplified action. I'm thinking about using something other than the rotating bolt, which, as I understand, is quite hard and costly to manufacture. I'm also using a 500mm barrel for the normal battle rifle, a 405mm for carbine, and a 590mm for marksman. Also added rails on top, bottom and sides, and added a forward assist and a HK G3 charging mechanism. So, no it isn't a FAL, but it's based on one. I'm just going to call it a IBR (Infantry Battle Rifle) for now.

The FAL charging mechanism is superior, mostly because it doesn't suck. Well, sort of. It comes down more to the magazines than anything. The FAL's charging handle is non-reciprocating (like the G3 and AR-10), but it also has a bolt-hold-open (like the AR-10). If you're left-handed, the FAL's charging handle is easier to bring back and release (rotate, pull, release: kind of like AK) rather than trying to reach up by your face, unshouldering the weapon (or at the very least, no longer aiming down sights) to recharge manually.

There really isn't anything wrong with the FAL as-is as far as battle rifles goes. You don't really need to change anything about it other than maybe making the magazine release and magazine well "wing a bit more ambidextrous-friendly.

Except it isn't. Maybe if you would, gee I don't know, research, the operating system (long shot, but eh, worth a shot) you'd find that it's actually pretty reliable.

Comrade,

Can you ride on M16 with tank, drag through sand and stick in mud pool, then pull out and fire? No comrade, you cannot, because M16 is pig dog capitalist, Western gun of shit.

Yes.

Except you can.

Um. No. The gas tube would just get filled with shit and jam.

The only way the gas tube would get jammed is if you literally forced mud into the barrel ~6" deep which would be an amazing feat itself. The AR-15 uses a sealed action. Only time dirt will enter the chamber area/internals is when you lock the bolt open, then thrust fistfulls of mud into the receiver itself. As San pointed out, it also has a dust cover that opens itself upon firing. You'll also notice that the bolt-carrier itself just about forms a perfect seal between the receiver walls, so any dirt on it is likely going to just be kicked out of the way and not enter the rifle in any substantial amount.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHwoZ6SS_pY

For situations where you need to break a window and break a window only, while minimizing as much as possible the risk of hitting a person behind it, ricochet, etc. what would you use?

The police.