NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #4

[The Nuclear Fist]

You don't release it into the air and let it drift. You detonate shells containing it, like you would a normal fragmentation round. It's the best way to clear an MG pit.

Mhmm, I suppose that might work. Does WP count as a chemical weapon? Because if not, that would get me around the pesky ban on gassing civilians.

Also, is it worth putting napalm in artillery shells?

[The Nuclear Fist]

Mhmm, now the skin melting is an interesting feature. But considering the horrible effects VX and mustard gas/phosgene already have, I'm not seeing the advantage they provide that the other chemical weapons don't. That and that peaceful snow could also very well melt the skin off my own troops.

WP isn't deployed as a chemical weapon. It's used for other purposes as a general incendiary. Like DIME, the unpleasant side effects are exactly that: side effects.

Huh, well then it's a bit like DU munitions, then?

I guess I would already use it, and it's a nice touch that it won't land me in extra hot water.

[The Akasha Colony]

Mhmm, I suppose that might work. Does WP count as a chemical weapon? Because if not, that would get me around the pesky ban on gassing civilians.

That depends. There are a lot of NGOs that complain about it, but a number of militaries still actively use it and don't consider it a chemical weapon, since it's an incendiary.

Also, is it worth putting napalm in artillery shells?

No. Not enough space to be very useful.

[The Ashkenazi]

Mhmm, I suppose that might work. Does WP count as a chemical weapon? Because if not, that would get me around the pesky ban on gassing civilians.

That depends. There are a lot of NGOs that complain about it, but a number of militaries still actively use it and don't consider it a chemical weapon, since it's an incendiary.

Also, is it worth putting napalm in artillery shells?

No. Not enough space to be very useful.

It's restricted via the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons, an annex to the Geneva Conventions. So many nations that use it do so in violation of their own treaty agreements. But it is classified strictly as an incendiary weapon, not a chemical weapon.

[The Nuclear Fist]

That depends. There are a lot of NGOs that complain about it, but a number of militaries still actively use it and don't consider it a chemical weapon, since it's an incendiary.

Are there even NGOs in NS?

Though I appreciate the newfound knowledge of WP and ricin bullets. I'll definitely have to remember them.

[Allanea]

I have an NGO whose job is to assist people with the environmetnal damage caused by wars, but it does not as such complain/protest about things.

[Our Most Resplendent Goddess Sen]

Hmm. I'm still wary of issuing it. I feel like a single bullet's worth of ricin probably isn't going to be enough to kill, and it means that there's a risk of poisoning my own troops simply from them loading their own weapons. Would hate to get it on my skin.

Have the Ricin be inside of a hollowpoint with a ballistic tip. Then you won't have to worry about your troops getting it on them!

A single bullet should be able to contain far more than is needed to kill.

[The Nuclear Fist]

Hmm. I'm still wary of issuing it. I feel like a single bullet's worth of ricin probably isn't going to be enough to kill, and it means that there's a risk of poisoning my own troops simply from them loading their own weapons. Would hate to get it on my skin.

Have the Ricin be inside of a hollowpoint with a ballistic tip. Then you won't have to worry about your troops getting it on them!

A single bullet should be able to contain far more than is needed to kill.

Done and done. Now would it be cost effective?

[The Nuclear Fist]

Hollowpoint bullet with incendiary tip and ricin inside with expanding copper jacket, y/n?

[Primordial Luxa]

.

[Rich and Corporations]

I have an NGO whose job is to assist people with the environmetnal damage caused by wars, but it does not as such complain/protest about things.

Doesn't it financially cheat by earning donations every RL day, and somehow all of it's donations are stored as liquid assets?

one and done. Now would it be cost effective?

You can kill with one bullet.

[Sovereign Imperial Monarchy]

Question regarding CIWS, are proximity fuse rounds effective as an anti-air/missile defense?

Planning to go with a 40mm 3-barrled gatling style cannon able to fire at around 1000 rpm or more with burst firing capabilities.

[Cote dSoleil]

Question regarding CIWS, are proximity fuse rounds effective as an anti-air/missile defense?

Planning to go with a 40mm 3-barrled gatling style cannon able to fire at around 1000 rpm or more with burst firing capabilities.

yes, the phrase to google is "AHEAD"

It'd likely be more practical/easier to just use more than one cannon for L/70 40mm Bofors. The DARDO Fast Forty is pretty close to what you're looking for, and the Denel 35mm Dual Purpose Gun is pretty close, as well.

edit - there's also larger mounts, such as 76mm and 100mm that use proximity detonation to neutralize missiles and aircraft

[Sovereign Imperial Monarchy]

I do know that AHEAD uses a revolver style as opposed to a gatling style that the phalanx uses.

However I wanted to implement a proximity fuse on a rapid firing gun platform like AHEAD and so increased the caliber to 40mm instead of 35mm to add more range and size of the round to make the proximity round more effective. Also I intend to have these things placed on naval ships in similar fashion to the phalanx CIWS on carriers, destroyers, cruisers, etc.

I also know of the larger guns like the Melara, but too large to place on ships like carriers for anti-air defense, unless you think it's not too large to place.

[The Nuclear Fist]

Is there any way to defend against torpedos?

[New Korongo]

Is there any way to defend against torpedos?

Specifically the Mk48 Mod 7.

[The Nuclear Fist]

Is there any way to defend against torpedos?

Specifically the Mk48 Mod 7.

Rustonian doctrine in this case would normally call for deployment of a full scale nuclear torpedo in the vicinity of the general area where enemy torpedoes were fired, but obviously that won't be possible.

[Dewhurst-Narculis]

To name a few;

Torpedo decoys
trailing decoys
degaussed hulls
composite hulls

(last few work against magnetic torps)

[Anacasppia]

Arleigh Burke for NS - somewhat lengthened, 128 VLS cells, low observable hull and superstructure constructed of 'sandwich composite', nuclear propulsion, and 'dual band' AESA radar Y/N?

In any case, by this point I suppose the end product could hardly be called an Arleigh Burke anymore...it would be more of 'a destroyer possessing armament vaguely similar to the Burke' or generic 'NS missile barge'.

Is there any way to defend against torpedos?

torpedoception - pretty much active protection equivalent for ships

[The Nuclear Fist]

To name a few;

Torpedo decoys
trailing decoys
degaussed hulls
composite hulls

(last few work against magnetic torps)

Alright, thank you. That helps. I tried Googling it but didn't come up with much.

[Gallia-]

Is there any way to defend against torpedos?

No, not really.

To name a few;

Torpedo decoys
trailing decoys
degaussed hulls
composite hulls

(last few work against magnetic torps)

Alright, thank you. That helps. I tried Googling it but didn't come up with much.

That's because torpedoes are basically impossible to defend against. With modern wake homing ones, someone is going to die. About the only thing you can do against those is put a frigate aft of every high value ship, which is a bit much. There exist prototypical torpedo defence systems by the USN and British Royal Navy, but they've not yet been deployed in an operational fashion, and their efficacy is questionable. Towed decoys are ineffective against wake homing weapons, which are the most common ones employed against surface ships in NS probably. The most effective defence is to sink the submarine before it can fire a torpedo.

However, if you're in a submarine you have a few more options. Since you don't have a wake you only have to worry about acoustic signature, so countermeasures are an option, combined with a rapid dive or ascent. Another option is to use rocket torpedoes like Shkval, which will force a combatant submarine to evade, potentially snapping a guidance wire and forcing a torpedo into a straight running acoustic weapon, then it's just a matter of maneuvering.

Specifically the Mk48 Mod 7.

Rustonian doctrine in this case would normally call for deployment of a full scale nuclear torpedo in the vicinity of the general area where enemy torpedoes were fired, but obviously that won't be possible.

Nuclear depth bombs on submarines were standard USN and Royal Navy doctrine until the end of the Cold War.

It's a very good idea since it maximises kill probability, but you still have to worry about the torpedo if one has been launched. In that case it's best to have a screen of cheap warships like Oliver Hazard Perry or Knox class frigates to eat them so the carrier doesn't.

Of course if the submarine is inside the battlegroup it's not very palatable, but then the carrier is dead already.

[Dewhurst-Narculis]

Is there any way to defend against torpedos?

No, not really.

There are a limited number but its possible, the Russians had the doctrine of simply "combing the thread" which is to close on the torpedo head on and then move or continue, hopefully the massive decrease of distance between the torpedo and the ship would confuse the 1970's electronics but I wouldn't recommend it now

To name a few;

Torpedo decoys
trailing decoys
degaussed hulls
composite hulls

(last few work against magnetic torps)

Alright, thank you. That helps. I tried Googling it but didn't come up with much.

Best chance is to look at the Daring class, last time I was on one, they had a set of 3 torpedo decoy launchers either side on the foredeck aft of the 4.5", equivalent to chaff on a plane really

[Anacasppia]

A quick search further revealed that in fact Russia already has an anti-torpedo torpedo system mature enough to be, well, sold.

[Gallia-]

A quick search further revealed that in fact Russia already has an anti-torpedo torpedo system mature enough to be, well, sold.

MU90 Impact has been adapted as an anti-torpedo (and for that matter, so have Mk 46 and Mk 50/54). It doesn't mean it works, of course, and considering Western electronics companies have always been ahead of their Russian counterparts I would take that with a grain of salt.

[The Kievan People]

The main difference between the SSTD and the Paket-E/NK is that the former is a completely passive system, while the latter seems to use active sonar for tracking.